California's progressive tax is a massive failure!

a reply to: Masterjaden

Well you can't have mine.

Right on!!

a reply to: JAGStorm

California will be a big lesson for the rest of the country. You just cannot invite illegals from other nations to come and get free stuff and benefits while saddling the burden on business and lawful citizens. It is acrecip for disaster.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Actually, 1 in 4 people in CA live in poverty. It resembles communist countries where the bureaucrats and their allies are wealthy and everyone else is poor.

originally posted by: Edumakated

Socialist ideology is that everyone is supposed to own everything they create. But I understand why you don’t like what you describe. I don’t like that either. The difference, I suppose, is that I also don’t like exploitation and injustice. So I prefer a system where people actually GET the fruits of their personal labors. Which means I don’t like it when, like our system, other people steal the fruits of your labors and call it their profit. It’s not their profit. It’s your profit, they just take it.

Are you high?

Socialist ideology is when the government owns everything you create. Only capitalism allows an individual to own what they create. Capitalism is what allows you to get the fruits of your labor.

The problem you have is that some people work harder than others and may wind up with more fruits so to speak.

Funny, you don't consider redistribution of wealth stealing. You don't consider digging into my pocket to take my earned money to give to someone else who didn't earn it stealing?

See, and here is where we have the disagreement. I don’t think anyone should be taxed off their labor. Because that IS taking money out of my pocket. It’s taking money from the actual value of the service I provided away from me. Whereas exploitation, whereby someone else makes money off of labor I create? Yeah. That’s where taxes should be taken from. Capital gains.

Ie, say you buy some land, build a house on it, want to rent it to me? Then you should be able to rent it to me for upkeep, mortgage cost, and a slight premium directly reflective of the actual time you put into running it. The rest should be taken in taxes. If you are a bank, and you create money out of thin air, that you specifically didn’t work for, and give that to me to buy a house? You should make a small premium based off the actual time you spend typing it up, and the rest should be taxed. If you are a hospital, and I work for you, and my labor makes 1000000 a year in profit? You should get a fraction of that 1000000 dollars that directly reflects the cost of equipment and facility, a small premium based upon your contribution to that 1000000, and the rest should be deeply taxed. Get it?

It’s fine with me if you disagree. But that’s where we differ on what “wealth redistribution “ is. To you, there is no such thing as exploitation. Slave labor, sweat shops, usury, monopolies, all fine to you. You apparently don’t know or care about price fixing, wage suppression, etc. I, on the other hand, recognize that these are the ultimate ends of all unfettered capitalist systems, and I don’t care for that future very much. I don’t want my kids making minimum wage from a company who they make hundreds of thousands of dollars for.

originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: dfnj2015

Socialism is supposed to make the people equal. If socialism made the state rich but the people are suffering either you are doing it wrong or it doesn't work.

Socialism is not about making people equal.

According to Progressives, it is supposed to bring equality. Of course in reality it is unfair.

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: Edumakated

Socialist ideology is that everyone is supposed to own everything they create. But I understand why you don’t like what you describe. I don’t like that either. The difference, I suppose, is that I also don’t like exploitation and injustice. So I prefer a system where people actually GET the fruits of their personal labors. Which means I don’t like it when, like our system, other people steal the fruits of your labors and call it their profit. It’s not their profit. It’s your profit, they just take it.

Are you high?

Socialist ideology is when the government owns everything you create. Only capitalism allows an individual to own what they create. Capitalism is what allows you to get the fruits of your labor.

The problem you have is that some people work harder than others and may wind up with more fruits so to speak.

Funny, you don't consider redistribution of wealth stealing. You don't consider digging into my pocket to take my earned money to give to someone else who didn't earn it stealing?

See, and here is where we have the disagreement. I don’t think anyone should be taxed off their labor. Because that IS taking money out of my pocket. It’s taking money from the actual value of the service I provided away from me. Whereas exploitation, whereby someone else makes money off of labor I create? Yeah. That’s where taxes should be taken from. Capital gains.

Ie, say you buy some land, build a house on it, want to rent it to me? Then you should be able to rent it to me for upkeep, mortgage cost, and a slight premium directly reflective of the actual time you put into running it. The rest should be taken in taxes. If you are a bank, and you create money out of thin air, that you specifically didn’t work for, and give that to me to buy a house? You should make a small premium based off the actual time you spend typing it up, and the rest should be taxed. If you are a hospital, and I work for you, and my labor makes 1000000 a year in profit? You should get a fraction of that 1000000 dollars that directly reflects the cost of equipment and facility, a small premium based upon your contribution to that 1000000, and the rest should be deeply taxed. Get it?

It’s fine with me if you disagree. But that’s where we differ on what “wealth redistribution “ is. To you, there is no such thing as exploitation. Slave labor, sweat shops, usury, monopolies, all fine to you. You apparently don’t know or care about price fixing, wage suppression, etc. I, on the other hand, recognize that these are the ultimate ends of all unfettered capitalist systems, and I don’t care for that future very much. I don’t want my kids making minimum wage from a company who they make hundreds of thousands of dollars for.

So let me get this straight ... you want to tax corporations for what you believe to be “slave labor” and “sweat shops”.... basically to use taxation as punishment for what you view as being socially unacceptable... is that right ? You do know that the reason corporations move from the US is high taxation and that US corporations are the highest taxed in the world even though most of the sweat shops are on foreign countries .....

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

What I’m saying, quite clearly, is if you are doing the work, you deserve the money from it. And if you’re not doing the work, then you don’t deserve the money from it. It’s very clear and obvious that I don’t think people should be getting paid for not working. I don’t believe that anyone should be making money without working. I don’t believe that anyone should be able to live for free, and certainly not have an exhorbitant life style, all while making money from work other people are doing. I don’t know why this is so hard to grasp. If you didn’t make the product or do the work, then you don’t deserve the money.

Also. I don’t care if “corporations leave the us “. You know who will stay? All the people that do the work. If a corporation leaves the us, remove their license to sell here. Restrict their rights to the us market. Others will pop up to take their place. Think I would cry if Walmart took all their stores and left? You think new stores wouldn’t pop up? Of course you think that. Because all good things flow from “job creators”. Demand creates jobs. Oh, btw, I also think it should largely apply to inheritance too. Anything over 1 million per surviving dependent.

a reply to: JAGStorm

Nolte: 2020 Democrats Go All-In on the Socialist Vote — Less than 1/5 of Americans

www.breitbart.com...





Hmm...if you add the population of California and New York , you get 19% of the US Population... just a Coincidence ?

See? See this? People here think single payer healthcare is socialism. Or govt funded education. Or govt owning all business. Or no market. How can y’all have discussions or opinions on something when you just think it’s every boogeyman that tries to rein in the power of big business?

a reply to: pexx421

"socialism noun

so·​cial·​ism | ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm

Definition of socialism

1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done"

I think most everyone gets what socialism is. See the above. Pure socialism is complete government ownership of everything, with no private ownership of anything. The ultimate poke in the eye for workers, who never have any way to advance to a better life. The ultimate source of joy for anyone who wants to be kept by the state, like a pet that wags it's tail when it gets a treat.

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

What I’m saying, quite clearly, is if you are doing the work, you deserve the money from it. And if you’re not doing the work, then you don’t deserve the money from it. It’s very clear and obvious that I don’t think people should be getting paid for not working. I don’t believe that anyone should be making money without working. I don’t believe that anyone should be able to live for free, and certainly not have an exhorbitant life style, all while making money from work other people are doing. I don’t know why this is so hard to grasp. If you didn’t make the product or do the work, then you don’t deserve the money.

No! You said taxes should come from Capital Gains. That means either the profit from a company’s annual earnings or an individual”s gain from their stock market portfolio. You just sidestepped that with a bunch of cr$& about not taxing people who worked hard. Then you went on about slave labor and sweat shops. So clearly you mean to punish corporations.

originally posted by: pexx421
Also. I don’t care if “corporations leave the us “. You know who will stay? All the people that do the work. If a corporation leaves the us, remove their license to sell here. Restrict their rights to the us market. Others will pop up to take their place. Think I would cry if Walmart took all their stores and left? You think new stores wouldn’t pop up? Of course you think that. Because all good things flow from “job creators”. Demand creates jobs. Oh, btw, I also think it should largely apply to inheritance too. Anything over 1 million per surviving dependent.

Of course you don’t, because like every good Progressive, you don’t care if jobs go overseas as long as you can get a piece of the billionaires booty.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

What I’m saying, quite clearly, is if you are doing the work, you deserve the money from it. And if you’re not doing the work, then you don’t deserve the money from it. It’s very clear and obvious that I don’t think people should be getting paid for not working. I don’t believe that anyone should be making money without working. I don’t believe that anyone should be able to live for free, and certainly not have an exhorbitant life style, all while making money from work other people are doing. I don’t know why this is so hard to grasp. If you didn’t make the product or do the work, then you don’t deserve the money.

No! You said taxes should come from Capital Gains. That means either the profit from a company’s annual earnings or an individual”s gain from their stock market portfolio. You just sidestepped that with a bunch of cr$& about not taxing people who worked hard. Then you went on about slave labor and sweat shops. So clearly you mean to punish corporations.

That’s exactly what capital gains is. It’s money from work that you’re not doing. I don’t know why you think that other people should be able to skim off the pot of the laborers toils, but that’s exactly why the middle class in America is rapidly desolving and people can’t afford to maintain their standard of living. Because 10 different groups take a cut of my pay before I get to it. And then 8000 other groups take a cut of the taxes I pay before it trickles down to any socially beneficial structures. Punish corporations? I don’t think corporations should exist. They were originally meant to perform a non profit, social project, and then to be dissolved. Now they’re a way for people to avoid liability and amass power.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: pexx421
Also. I don’t care if “corporations leave the us “. You know who will stay? All the people that do the work. If a corporation leaves the us, remove their license to sell here. Restrict their rights to the us market. Others will pop up to take their place. Think I would cry if Walmart took all their stores and left? You think new stores wouldn’t pop up? Of course you think that. Because all good things flow from “job creators”. Demand creates jobs. Oh, btw, I also think it should largely apply to inheritance too. Anything over 1 million per surviving dependent.

Of course you don’t, because like every good Progressive, you don’t care if jobs go overseas as long as you can get a piece of the billionaires booty.

The “jobs” are going overseas because we encourage and allow it. I don’t care if the “job makers” go overseas. Why should I? As I said someone else will be happy to step up. I have no desire for the billionaires booty. I just want them to keep their hands off ours.

To add, there’s more than that to capital gains. There’s also rents, interests, bank fees, monopoly pricing, etc. Anything where one is getting money without creating an actual product of equal economic value.

Agreed ! Unions rock and they work

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: JAGStorm
I live in Southern illinois. There are people here who have been trying to separate Chicago/Cooke County from Illinois for years for this very reason. It'll never happen, but I applaud them for trying. We have to rid ourselves of the scum in the state capital before anything else gets done.

I, too, live in Southern Illinois and find Chicago to be the detriment of everything in the state. Like recently when the teachers in Chicago went on strike (a total of three times recently, I might add) for more pay. I never heard one of them say "And let's have more money for all the teachers downstate as well." We're all just hicks down here, so y'all can just forget about us. That seems to be their attitude.

I'm surprised Illinois hasn't imploded already, like California seems to be doing.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: JAGStorm

Socialism is why blue states are the richest states.

That must be why there's literally snip in every street in San Fransnipsco.

a reply to: dfnj2015
What? If they are it is not because of socialism. Its because people with money back Marxist ideology as they will SIT AT THE TOP OF THE TYRANNICAL PYRAMID YOU USEFUL IDIOT!!!!!