Skeptics Have Provided No Proof To Support Their Belief That Aliens Are Not Visiting Us

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: MissSmartypants

It would be disappointing if it were shown that we are alone in the universe.

When I watch a magic show, I want to believe that the magician is real and using real magic.

I do believe that real magic exists.

It's the same when any topic comes up about aliens.

They do exist, they are here. Because I believe they are. Because it would be mathematically impossible for us to be all alone.

I believe in mysteries.

A believer at your best. You have a lot of company. Fortunately, progress doesn't depend on belief, it depends on knowing. Being a believer, in whatever, means you don't have a questioning mind and you become a victim/slave of whatever you consider an authority outside of yourself. I operate with 100% confidence, you can't say the same. To cut it short, you are only fooling yourself. I couldn't do that to myself.

originally posted by: MissSmartypants
And why are skeptics so interested in threads about UFOs and aliens in the first place? Is it really that important to make sure everyone knows that you don't subscribe to our beliefs lest someone think you're one of us? Me thinks they do protest too much.

You do not seem to realize that you are participating in a public forum open to all opinions. It's not just for you believers. We are all curious and those that are interested in the topics discussed here want to see what others have to say. This forum is not unusual, all forums entertain believers and non-believers. Not all non-believers are skeptics so they don't care one way or another. But us skeptics are curious about the minds of believers and we sort-of feel like deprogrammers. By using logic and common sense we sometimes get a hit and a believer may be able to see the light. But it's one hell of an uphill battle because once a mind is programmed, it's tough to deprogram. Ask any cult deprogrammer. What we protest most loudly is how awful it is to have become a close-minded believer. Nothing going for it.

originally posted by: EartOccupant
a reply to: Hefficide

Fair enough!

I do however wonder what in this day and age counts as "evidence".

I think, unless you have a personal experience, it comes to believe or not to believe. Even a UFO wreckage on TV .. well what does it proof? It prove your TV is in working order. Nothing more.

And based on that, you (and I) get a nice dilemma.

Is it reasonable to expect irrefutable and pristine proof?
Is it reasonable to dismiss ALL accounts of people who tell about their experiences beyond your believe system? (It's all or nothing, as one is enough!)
Is their a middle road?

So long story short.. The Burden of proof... might not be in the corner most people expect.

PS. I did notice you were "citing" about previous experience and not specifically about yourself. Also my "you" in the above, is to be read as a universal person.

Before you continue favoring a belief system, understand that not all of us have a belief system, I don't. I could never use the word "believe" pertaining to me. Only the gullible has a belief system, as all religious people do. It's a totally different mind-set that gives one the joy and happiness that no believer could ever experience. Not accepting everything at face value is a freedom to be enjoyed. Always questioning opens you up to knowledge. You don't question, you don't learn.

a reply to: Hunkadinka


It's sad.

For some, living in a cold, sterile environment is favorable.

I prefer to live in a world where anything and everything is probable.

originally posted by: MissSmartypants
And why are skeptics so interested in threads about UFOs and aliens in the first place? Is it really that important to make sure everyone knows that you don't subscribe to our beliefs lest someone think you're one of us? Me thinks they do protest too much.

Because every single skeptic out there has that teeny weeny tiny shred of hope that someone's new thread MIGHT be something to lend credit to there being other life out there interested in our inbred asses enough to visit.

As it stands, there has not been jack crap yet to prove that. A hell of a lot of wishful thinking on believers' parts doesn't make a funky craft picture alien. It just makes it something worth ruling in or out one way or the other eventually with common sense.

When aliens really DO show up some day, we'll damn sure know it. It's a big universe, and we're not unique creatures on that grand of a scale by any means. Somebody's out there, and somebody's probably so far ahead of us technologically that they'd look like a god to us. We may or may not ever meet them, but as a UFO skeptic and Mars ruins skeptic myself, I'd go apes# in glee someday if they do.

originally posted by: KansasGirl

originally posted by: vethumanbeing
originally posted by: schuyler
originally posted by: MissSmartypants

originally posted by: ausername
How could skeptics present any hard, irrefutable evidence that would prove beyond a doubt that aliens aren't visiting us, when there is no hard, irrefutable evidence that "aliens" are visiting us?
And Billy Meiers? No, just no. It would take longer than I m willing to spend here telling you what is wrong with Billy. We can start with his UFO Ray Gun, found to be a Chinese toy on e-Bay. Then there is "Semjase," who looks remarkably like an actress who appeared on the Donna Read show. Then there is his picture of a dinosaur, ripped out of a book that is still in print. The guy is a nutcase. Please don't use Billy as any sort of proof here. It just shows your ignorance.

Betty Andreasson Luca has provided very provocative evidence of 4th kind encounters; so also has Betty and Barney Hill, so also has Enoch so also has Leonardo DaVinci, (whisked away for 2 years by others) so also has Isaiah....

What evidence has Betty Andreasson provided? She's been hypnotized and her sessions have been recorded. Is THAT the evidence you're talking about? Because many, many people would NOT consider things said under "hypnotic regression" to be evidence. So is there some other evidence she has provided?

I can't get into a discussion about Betty Andreasson because I was familiar with the case when it was first publicized but I would have to read it all over and I can't get into that now. However, I did start to read an interview and I liked what I saw in the opening 'cause it's unusual to read what supports my thread about "dimensionals".

www.ufocasebook.com...

Of the many cases and reports of alien abduction, the Betty Andreasson Encounter of 1967 has stood the test of time and ridicule as one of the best documented accounts of mankind's encounter with beings not of our dimension.

The interviewer, thankfully, did not say beings or aliens from other planets.

Besides my being a UFOlogist, skeptic, etc., I was a good hypnotist. So, to be fair to your comment:

Because many, many people would NOT consider things said under "hypnotic regression" to be evidence.

I retort with:
www.justice.gov...

288. ADMISSIBILITY AT TRIAL
The question whether hypnotically refreshed evidence is admissible at trial is still an open one in many jurisdictions, and is regulated by statute in a number of States. In those jurisdictions in which the question of admissibility is unsettled, a foundation concerning the reliability of hypnosis is necessary. See, e.g., Harding v. State, 5 Md.App. 230, 246 A.2d 302 (1968), cert. denied, 395 U.S. 949 (1969). In jurisdictions where such evidence is clearly admissible, there is no need for a foundation concerning the nature and effects of hypnosis. See United States v. Awkard, 597 F.2d 667 (9th Cir.), cert. denied, 444 U.S. 885 (1979). The question of a witness's competency to testify following questioning under hypnosis is guided in the Federal courts by Rule 601 of the Federal Rules of Evidence, which provides:

Every person is competent to be a witness except as otherwise provided in these rules. However, in civil actions and proceedings, with respect to an element of a claim or defense as to which State law supplies the rule of decision, the competency of a witness shall be determined in accordance with State law.
The Federal courts addressing the issue of hypnotically induced testimony of a prosecution witness have generally permitted the use of such testimony, holding that the fact of the hypnosis affects only the credibility of the witness and not the witness's competence or the admissibility of his or her testimony. See, e.g., Beck v. Norris, 801 F.2d 242 (6th Cir. 1986) (on habeas, Tennessee law read as allowing witness's testimony and composite drawing prepared after hypnosis; opportunity to cross examine witness and hypnotist defeats claim of inability to confront witnesses; United States v. Awkard, supra; United States v. Adams, 581 F.2d 193 (9th Cir), cert. denied, 439 U.S. 1006 (1978); Kline v. Ford Motor Company, Inc., 523 F.2d 1067 (9th Cir. 1975); Harding v. State, supra.

originally posted by: MissSmartypants

originally posted by: Hunkadinka

originally posted by: spiritualarchitect
snip

If we are all honest the thought of an extraterrestrial standing in front of us evokes a deep, primal fear due to their sheer otherness.
However, where is your proof that the military pilots didn't observe these UFOs to be precisely as they described. And where is your proof that when these same pilots say that no human on earth has developed the technology to do the things they say the UFOs did, that they are lying or that we do have the technology and they don't know about it?
If you have this proof you should share it with the world. Or is it that you just don't believe them because that's just how they do and you're just sure of it? That whole Meiers, Adamski, Gulf Breeze stuff left a bad taste in my mouth too and actually led me to being a skeptic for a number of years...so I appreciate where your coming from.
I respect that you don't just pop in for one derogatory post and disappear but rather you stick around to express your point of view. I look forward to sparring with you.

You said: "If we are all honest the thought of an extraterrestrial standing in front of us evokes a deep, primal fear due to their sheer otherness." But you are creating the thought with all of your implications! How can a thought that you created be imbued with such powers as primal fear, etc.? Memories carry emotions. Created thoughts don't.

Look, you're getting carried away with this Navy encounter. Such encounters are not new, they've been around for decades. They just didn't enjoy the publicity the new ones do. Military pilots know they're dealing with the unknown and no matter how hard they try they're never gonna come close to the target. And because the target is not hostile the pilots can't open fire on them which would I'm sure would be futile anyway.

And, try to remember I don't believe, in anything. I accept or I don't. And what I'm not sure of gets put on the back burner, to simmer. Since I've been a UAP enthusiast since 1958 I've read almost all of the books released until the late '90s because UFOlogy has gone downhill since then. And as long as UAP is still being experienced worldwide, getting weirder by the day, interest will reign in forums such as this one. What I'm trying to say that all of what I've read included extended research when the interest was there. You have no idea what has been seen by my eyes and heard by my ears. So, contrary to your feelings my in-depth research into Meier,Gulf Breeze, etc., produced joy for and against, pro and con. Every revelation was an adrenaline-trigger.

Nah, I'll be around with my derogatory posts for a while. I lead a boring life and talking to others brightens my day/night!

edit on 20-9-2019 by Hunkadinka because: To correct format.

originally posted by: MissSmartypants

originally posted by: Hunkadinka

originally posted by: spiritualarchitect

I’m trying to help you skeptics out here.

I have an enormous advantage on you because I have seen their craft from fairly close range. I know it was a machine and not mad made. That means it was made by someone else. Somewhere else.

I was extremely lucky to have seen it. You have to be looking in the right spot at the right time. Because they do not make any noise and you would never know it was there otherwise.

Now I cannot show it to you, so all I can do is describe it to you. And that comes with the knowledge and certainty that indeed, They are here. They were here before we were born.

The question is not whether they are here or not – the question is - what are they doing?

If anyone wants an ONUS – That should be it.
It should be up to all of us to speculate WHY they are here.

Being all guesswork, it may not get us anywhere, but it would surely be better than stumbling over the first step over and over, of are they here?

Those of us who have seen evidence of them continually have to hold the hand of the rest of you to get you over that first step. If you want to believe in something, you can believe THAT is frustrating as all get out.

Just open up a second mind set. Tell yourself, “Okay, what if they are here.”

Then look at all the accumulated evidence and start thinking what if some of it is real.

Then piece it together and see where the story goes.

Those of us who have made that first step do not know all the answers; we have to piece together the puzzle too. Our advantage is that we have made that first step.

So skeptics – take the step – and tell us what you think ET is doing on Earth.

You don't have an advantage on me, I have one on you because my closeup sighting was before yours, I'm assuming.

First, I'm a skeptic, always will be. But an ope-minded one and I've seen UAP some better than most. Like you I had a sighting that made my arms shake and I had to walk to a nearby waist-high fence to rest them for steadyness. In the early 1980s I was visiting friends in Santa Ana, Calif. I went to their backyard with my 7-12X zoom binoculars. Through the open space between properties I could see the mountains to the east. I scanned the mountains just for the hell of it. Then I saw what made my arms tremble: a classic-shaped "craft" hovering low and seemingly riding invisible gentle waves. I had to move to the low fence to steady my arms but the object was no longer there. The view was clear and sharp and there was no doubt as to what I had seen. Up until that moment I had always wondered what people were seeing and not being a believer I could not have an opinion either way. After that sighting I had an opinion and I knew, no more wondering.

As to "they", drop it. You believe in "they" without proof. You extrapolate, I don't. Don't make yourself a spokesperson, it doesn't fit. You have to keep an open mind but don't go overboard with belief. Belief-less is preferable to believer. Trust me, I know.

If we are all honest the thought of an extraterrestrial standing in front of us evokes a deep, primal fear due to their sheer otherness.
However, where is your proof that the military pilots didn't observe these UFOs to be precisely as they described. And where is your proof that when these same pilots say that no human on earth has developed the technology to do the things they say the UFOs did, that they are lying or that we do have the technology and they don't know about it?
If you have this proof you should share it with the world. Or is it that you just don't believe them because that's just how they do and you're just sure of it? That whole Meiers, Adamski, Gulf Breeze stuff left a bad taste in my mouth too and actually led me to being a skeptic for a number of years...so I appreciate where your coming from.
I respect that you don't just pop in for one derogatory post and disappear but rather you stick around to express your point of view. I look forward to sparring with you.

You said: "If we are all honest the thought of an extraterrestrial standing in front of us evokes a deep, primal fear due to their sheer otherness." But you are creating the thought with all of your implications! How can a thought that you created be imbued with such powers as primal fear, etc.? Memories carry emotions. Created thoughts don't.

Look, you're getting carried away with this Navy encounter. Such encounters are not new, they've been around for decades. They just didn't enjoy the publicity the new ones do. Military pilots know they're dealing with the unknown and no matter how hard they try they're never gonna come close to the target. And because the target is not hostile the pilots can't open fire on them which would I'm sure would be futile anyway.

And, try to remember I don't believe, in anything. I accept or I don't. And what I'm not sure of gets put on the back burner, to simmer. I've been a UAP enthusiast since 1958 and my first book was authored by George Adamski and I've read almost all of the books (and videos) released until the late '90s because UFOlogy has gone downhill since then. And as long as UAP is still being experienced worldwide, getting weirder by the day, interest will reign in forums such as this one. What I'm trying to say is that all of what I've read included extended research when the interest was there. You have no idea what has been seen by my eyes and heard by my ears. So, contrary to your feelings my in-depth research into Meier, Gulf Breeze, etc., produced joy for and against, pro and con. Every revelation was an adrenaline-trigger.

Nah, I'll be around with my derogatory posts for a while. I lead a boring life and talking to others brightens my day/night!

originally posted by: MissSmartypants
Skepticism can work both ways.
And so far these self important skeptics have failed to present any hard, irrefutable evidence that would prove beyond a doubt that aliens aren't visiting us. And until these skeptics provide the proof necessary to support their unsubstantiated beliefs they will remain just that....beliefs.
And quite frankly, we "believers" as the skeptics so dismissively refer to us as, have much more evidence that aliens are here than skeptics have that they are not.

Wheres the evidence that youre not a mass murderer? Oh you have NONE? You should be locked up in jail then, just be to sure, right?

Is it so importen to you, that everybody take a stance on this, and agree with your conclusion?
This isnt how scientific conclusions are made, this is how a cult is started... grow up!

originally posted by: NoFearsEqualsFreeMan

originally posted by: MissSmartypants
Skepticism can work both ways.
And so far these self important skeptics have failed to present any hard, irrefutable evidence that would prove beyond a doubt that aliens aren't visiting us. And until these skeptics provide the proof necessary to support their unsubstantiated beliefs they will remain just that....beliefs.
And quite frankly, we "believers" as the skeptics so dismissively refer to us as, have much more evidence that aliens are here than skeptics have that they are not.

Wheres the evidence that youre not a mass murderer? Oh you have NONE? You should be locked up in jail then, just be to sure, right?

Is it so importen to you, that everybody take a stance on this, and agree with your conclusion?
This isnt how scientific conclusions are made, this is how a cult is started... grow up!

You ask a lot of questions...but I believe I can answer them.

In the drawer next to the microwave.Why?
That's phrased rather oddly...but refer to the answer above.
Sure, why not.
Again...sure, why not.

a reply to: MissSmartypants

The default position is that a thing has not occurred. Default positions do not require evidence.

originally posted by: MissSmartypants
And why are skeptics so interested in threads about UFOs and aliens in the first place? Is it really that important to make sure everyone knows that you don't subscribe to our beliefs lest someone think you're one of us? Me thinks they do protest too much.

Because many of us would love it to be true. I dream of getting to the stars. If that technology existed, and was possessed by those visiting Earth, that is the only hope I will ever attain that dream.

Sadly, nothing ever pans out.

a reply to: MissSmartypants

Haven't been here long, eh? Don't bother. The irony of some peoples logic and thier super human abilities of projection are clearly lost on them. Don't bother...

As others have said, ATS is now the worst place to discuss UFOS/aliens, etc. We have people acting like they Bill Nye debunking photos of blurry specks, wondering where the aliens are. Meanwhile, some of us are contacting ETs using Magick rituals lol. Forealz. We out here, just not concerned with convincing strangers on the Internet. Save yourself time and headaches and don't bother with this lot.

a reply to: ultimafule

How dare someone not believe in magick rituals that contact aliens without evidence. If you are actually doing this, record it. Have a discussion with indisputable evidence. Aliens would possess unEarthly knowledge, a video with that knowledge on it would be all a skeptic would need.

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Go back and read my post after taking those confirmation goggles off. Never said anyone has to believe in magick. Not interested in proving anything to random strangers on the Internet. You'll need to find your dopamine spike elsewhere. Take care ❤️

a reply to: ultimafule

Awesome, and what I said is if you are doing it then you can easily make a video proving it all. It would be like me having a pet bigfoot and ridiculing people for not believing in bigfoot but refusing to post video of me playing with mine.

a reply to: MissSmartypants

And so far these self important skeptics have failed to present any hard, irrefutable evidence that would prove beyond a doubt that aliens aren't visiting us.

This makes no logical sense what so ever.

NONE.

I read the thread and it seems many see skeptics as simply a person who wishes to debunk.

Skeptics are curious, Most skeptics that visit these forums and interact in Ufology are persons that have sightings of something unidentified or not yet verified, its why they are skeptics and have an interest in the subject.

A person who has a sighting of something unidentified will be a skeptic at first, its when they start claiming that its aliens is when their skepticism stops and their deluded mind takes over. with some its in an instant with others it takes a while of absorbing what Ufology has to offer and eventually join the religion of 'its aliens'

A skeptic will have a longing curiosity to gain information that will undoubtedly answer the questions of what it is.

they wont simply fall for the abundance of claims and similar stories as being evidence of aliens and will see it for what it is.

an abundance of claims and speculations based on unidentified sightings and human perception along with societal influences that is one of the main reason in my opinion for many that claim aliens.


Skepticism is simply a curious mind, one that questions

In Ufology and evidenced by the many claims on ATS over the years shows that questions towards those that make claims show a clear picture of ones psychology when the claimant more often than not cannot handle questions and gets defensive instead of admitting they simply do not know.

Ufology has been a cult like religion for many decades now with actually cults like Scientology, others even more so deluded like heavens gate.

If any truth concerning intelligent alien life visiting earth will ever be known it will be from skeptical minds not people that have convinced themselves due to tooo many reasons to list and that fail to know what their own minds are capable of or how their own minds are influenced

And until these skeptics provide the proof necessary to support their unsubstantiated beliefs they will remain just that....beliefs.

This goes even beyond the stupidly of what I first quoted.

all skeptics have the same beliefs?

These skeptics?

the ones that questions claims made person saying something unidentified is alien?

I think you fail to even remotely know what a skeptic or skepticism is.

And quite frankly, we "believers" as the skeptics so dismissively refer to us as, have much more evidence that aliens are here than skeptics have that they are not.

many of the claims and speculations made by religious like folk show how they have lost the plot which points to their claims as being projections of the wishful minds that have been programmed by their own experience along with a society that has for ages clung to beliefs no matter what and in turn can only attack the ones that question these claims and beliefs with illogical nonsense like this OP you have just authored.

There is an abundance of info that points to many things unknown,

that on its own is not evidence of aliens, its the human mind that attributes it to aliens, a human mind that is easily malleable by societal influences and wishful thinking.

the one thing skeptics do have in common is that they too have wishful thinking but are less likely to be influenced by a million people saying its so.

A gullible mind is the opposite, the more they see others have had sighting and the more they see claim its aliens the more they think its evidence of aliens.

Both minds can see the same unidentified thing, one stops questioning while the other keeps looking for answers that they haven't made because others also think its the answer.

Psychology plays a big part in Ufology, its a big mind game that many play and many mold their beliefs around due to perception.

My point exactly. And with no proof these skeptics have only their beliefs to go on. It's basically 'I've never seen an alien visiting us so therefore they aren't.'

What skeptics have claimed aliens are not visiting here on ATS that is not in reply to someone claiming they are?

Only a believer would do this because that is a belief that aliens are not, Intelligent alien life is still unknown and only speculated, to say they are or are not visiting is belief based.

That is not skepticism.


you constantly show you don't know what a skeptic is.

Read the definition for skepticism

then if it still eludes you read the definition for doubt.

No wonder Ufology is looked at as a Kooky subject by so many, the logic some display give so many reasons for Ufology to seem this way

a reply to: OccamsRazor04
Sorry if you feel ridiculed by my statements directed at MissSmarty. Sounds more like a personal problem to me but I'll try and consider your feelings next time I address anyone else here.

I suppose you still have those goggles on. Maybe you need bifocals instead. I'll say it one last time: not interested in proving anything to anybody. Take care💖

originally posted by: Hunkadinka

originally posted by: EartOccupant
a reply to: Hefficide

Fair enough!

I do however wonder what in this day and age counts as "evidence".

I think, unless you have a personal experience, it comes to believe or not to believe. Even a UFO wreckage on TV .. well what does it proof? It prove your TV is in working order. Nothing more.

And based on that, you (and I) get a nice dilemma.

Is it reasonable to expect irrefutable and pristine proof?
Is it reasonable to dismiss ALL accounts of people who tell about their experiences beyond your believe system? (It's all or nothing, as one is enough!)
Is their a middle road?

So long story short.. The Burden of proof... might not be in the corner most people expect.

PS. I did notice you were "citing" about previous experience and not specifically about yourself. Also my "you" in the above, is to be read as a universal person.

Before you continue favoring a belief system, understand that not all of us have a belief system, I don't. I could never use the word "believe" pertaining to me. Only the gullible has a belief system, as all religious people do. It's a totally different mind-set that gives one the joy and happiness that no believer could ever experience. Not accepting everything at face value is a freedom to be enjoyed. Always questioning opens you up to knowledge. You don't question, you don't learn.

You realize that choosing “not to believe” or being a Nihilist is in fact a belief system - right?