Not everybody has to have a soul

a reply to: SourceTruth
Correct.

I think that targetting children to exploit is a belief that I can't get behind.

And I can't respect you for it.

What do you think the penalty for grooming children online should be?

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Are you just going to keep repeating yourself? I thought I made it quite clear that I would not be stooped down to your level of personal attacks and disrespect.

You sound just like that RamblerNash guy who made that youtube video about me.

originally posted by: sirric
...According to scripture of the Holy Bible, which I've studied for many years and know quite well, ...

Ever analyzed how well you really know it? Take this subject of the soul for example. What does the Bible say that helps us to understand what the soul is?

Gen. 2:7: “Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul.” (Notice that this does not say that man was given a soul but that he became a soul, a living person.) (The part of the Hebrew word here rendered “soul” is neʹphesh. KJ, AS, and Dy agree with that rendering. RS, JB, NAB read “being.” NE says “creature.” Kx reads “person.”; these are abbreviations for different Bible translations)

1 Cor. 15:45: “It is even so written: ‘The first man Adam became a living soul.’ The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.” (So the Christian Greek Scriptures agree with the Hebrew Scriptures as to what the soul is.) (The Greek word here translated “soul” is the accusative case of psy·kheʹ. KJ, AS, Dy, JB, NAB, and Kx also read “soul.” RS, NE, and TEV say “being.”)

1 Pet. 3:20: “In Noah’s days . . . a few people, that is, eight souls, were carried safely through the water.” (The Greek word here translated “souls” is psy·khaiʹ, the plural form of psy·kheʹ. KJ, AS, Dy, and Kx also read “souls.” JB and TEV say “people”; RS, NE, and NAB use “persons.”)

Gen. 9:5: “Besides that, your blood of your souls [or, “lives”; Hebrew, from neʹphesh] shall I ask back.” (Here the soul is said to have blood.)

Josh. 11:11: “They went striking every soul [Hebrew, neʹphesh] that was in it with the edge of the sword.” (The soul is here shown to be something that can be touched by the sword, so these souls could not have been spirits.)

So from that information and similar bible references like it, we can form a definition for the word “soul” for the way the word is used in the Bible.

Definition: In the Bible, “soul” is translated from the Hebrew neʹphesh and the Greek psy·kheʹ. Bible usage shows the soul to be a person or an animal or the life that a person or an animal enjoys. To many persons, however, “soul” means the immaterial or spirit part of a human being that survives the death of the physical body. Others understand it to be the principle of life. But these latter views are not Bible teachings.

Source: Soul (Reasoning From the Scriptures)

Where does the Bible say that animals are souls?

Gen. 1:20, 21, 24, 25: “God went on to say: ‘Let the waters swarm forth a swarm of living souls* . . . ’ And God proceeded to create the great sea monsters and every living soul that moves about, which the waters swarmed forth according to their kinds, and every winged flying creature according to its kind. . . . And God went on to say: ‘Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds . . . ’ And God proceeded to make the wild beast of the earth according to its kind and the domestic animal according to its kind and every moving animal of the ground according to its kind.” (*In Hebrew the word here is neʹphesh. Ro reads “soul.” Some translations use the rendering “creature[s].”)

Lev. 24:17, 18: “In case a man strikes any soul [Hebrew, neʹphesh] of mankind fatally, he should be put to death without fail. And the fatal striker of the soul [Hebrew, neʹphesh] of a domestic animal should make compensation for it, soul for soul.” (Notice that the same Hebrew word for soul is applied to both mankind and animals.)

Rev. 16:3: “It became blood as of a dead man, and every living soul* died, yes, the things in the sea.” (Thus the Christian Greek Scriptures also show animals to be souls.) (*In Greek the word here is psy·kheʹ. KJ, AS, and Dy render it “soul.” Some translators use the term “creature” or “thing.”)

Do other scholars who are not Jehovah’s Witnesses acknowledge that this is what the Bible says the soul is?

“There is no dichotomy [division] of body and soul in the O[ld] T[estament]. The Israelite saw things concretely, in their totality, and thus he considered men as persons and not as composites. The term nepeš [neʹphesh], though translated by our word soul, never means soul as distinct from the body or the individual person. . . . The term [psy·kheʹ] is the N[ew] T[estament] word corresponding with nepeš. It can mean the principle of life, life itself, or the living being.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 449, 450.

“The Hebrew term for ‘soul’ (nefesh, that which breathes) was used by Moses . . . , signifying an ‘animated being’ and applicable equally to nonhuman beings. . . . New Testament usage of psychē (‘soul’) was comparable to nefesh.”—The New Encyclopædia Britannica (1976), Macropædia, Vol. 15, p. 152.

“The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture.”—The Jewish Encyclopedia (1910), Vol. VI, p. 564.

Source: same as before

Can the human soul die?

Ezek. 18:4: “Look! All the souls—to me they belong. As the soul of the father so likewise the soul of the son—to me they belong. The soul* that is sinning—it itself will die.” (*Hebrew reads “the neʹphesh.” KJ, AS, RS, NE, and Dy render it “the soul.” Some translations say “the man” or “the person.”)

Matt. 10:28: “Do not become fearful of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul [or, “life”]; but rather be in fear of him that can destroy both soul* and body in Gehenna.” (*Greek has the accusative case of psy·kheʹ. KJ, AS, RS, NE, TEV, Dy, JB, and NAB all render it “soul.”)

Acts 3:23: “Indeed, any soul [Greek, psy·kheʹ] that does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed from among the people.”

Is the soul the same as the spirit?

Eccl. 12:7: “Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit [or, life-force; Hebrew, ruʹach] itself returns to the true God who gave it.” (Notice that the Hebrew word for spirit is ruʹach; but the word translated soul is neʹphesh. The text does not mean that at death the spirit travels all the way to the personal presence of God; rather, any prospect for the person to live again rests with God. In similar usage, we may say that, if required payments are not made by the buyer of a piece of property, the property “returns” to its owner.) (KJ, AS, RS, NE, and Dy all here render ruʹach as “spirit.” NAB reads “life breath.”)

Eccl. 3:19: “There is an eventuality as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit [Hebrew, ruʹach].” (Thus both mankind and beasts are shown to have the same ruʹach, or spirit. For comments on verses 20, 21, see this page.)

Heb. 4:12: “The word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul [Greek, psy·khesʹ; “life,” NE] and spirit [Greek, pneuʹma·tos], and of joints and their marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentions of the heart.” (Observe that the Greek word for “spirit” is not the same as the word for “soul.”)

Does conscious life continue for a person after the spirit leaves the body?

Ps. 146:4: “His spirit [Hebrew, from ruʹach] goes out, he goes back to his ground; in that day his thoughts do perish.” (NAB, Ro, Yg, and Dy [145:4] here render ruʹach as “spirit.” Some translations say “breath.”) (Also Psalm 104:29)

a reply to: sirric

What is the origin of Christendom’s belief in an immaterial, immortal soul?

“The Christian concept of a spiritual soul created by God and infused into the body at conception to make man a living whole is the fruit of a long development in Christian philosophy. Only with Origen [died c. 254 C.E.] in the East and St. Augustine [died 430 C.E.] in the West was the soul established as a spiritual substance and a philosophical concept formed of its nature. . . . His [Augustine’s] doctrine . . . owed much (including some shortcomings) to Neoplatonism.”—New Catholic Encyclopedia (1967), Vol. XIII, pp. 452, 454.

“The concept of immortality is a product of Greek thinking, whereas the hope of a resurrection belongs to Jewish thought. . . . Following Alexander’s conquests Judaism gradually absorbed Greek concepts.”—Dictionnaire Encyclopédique de la Bible (Valence, France; 1935), edited by Alexandre Westphal, Vol. 2, p. 557.

“Immortality of the soul is a Greek notion formed in ancient mystery cults and elaborated by the philosopher Plato.”—Presbyterian Life, May 1, 1970, p. 35.

“Do we believe that there is such a thing as death? . . . Is it not the separation of soul and body? And to be dead is the completion of this; when the soul exists in herself, and is released from the body and the body is released from the soul, what is this but death? . . . And does the soul admit of death? No. Then the soul is immortal? Yes.”—Plato’s “Phaedo,” Secs. 64, 105, as published in Great Books of the Western World (1952), edited by R. M. Hutchins, Vol. 7, pp. 223, 245, 246.

“The problem of immortality, we have seen, engaged the serious attention of the Babylonian theologians. . . . Neither the people nor the leaders of religious thought ever faced the possibility of the total annihilation of what once was called into existence. Death was a passage to another kind of life.”—The Religion of Babylonia and Assyria (Boston, 1898), M. Jastrow, Jr., p. 556.

See also pages 100-102, under the heading “Death.”

Source: Soul (Reasoning From the Scriptures)

More info and evidence regarding how the Bible uses the word “soul”, what it is and what it isn't:

Soul (Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2)
Spirit (Reasoning From the Scriptures)
Spirit (Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2)
One Myth Leads to Another
Myth 1: The Soul Is Immortal

...
The Hebrew word neʹphesh, translated “soul,” means ‘a creature that breathes.’ When God created the first man, Adam, He did not infuse into him an immortal soul but the life force that is maintained by breathing. Therefore, “soul” in the Biblical sense refers to the entire living being. If separated from the life force originally given by God, the soul dies.​—Genesis 3:19; Ezekiel 18:20.

The doctrine of the immortality of the soul raised questions: Where do souls go after death? What happens to the souls of the wicked? When nominal Christians adopted the myth of the immortal soul, this led them to accept another myth​—the teaching of hellfire.

Compare these Bible verses: Ecclesiastes 3:19; Matthew 10:28; Acts 3:23

FACT:

At death a person ceases to exist

Myth 2: The Wicked Suffer in Hell

The End of False Religion Is Near!

... A widely respected religious figure, Jesus Christ, indicated that false religion produces bad works, just as a “rotten tree produces worthless fruit.” (Matthew 7:15-17) What fruit does false religion yield?

False Religion . . .

▪ MEDDLES IN WAR AND POLITICS: “Across Asia and beyond,” says the journal Asiaweek, “power-hungry leaders are cynically manipulating people’s religious sentiments for their own needs.” As a result, the journal warns: “The world threatens to sink into madness.” A prominent religious leader in the United States declared: “You’ve got to kill the terrorists before the killing stops.” His solution? “Blow them all away in the name of the Lord.” By contrast, the Bible says: “If anyone makes the statement: ‘I love God,’ and yet is hating his brother, he is a liar.” (1 John 4:20) Jesus even said: “Continue to love your enemies.” (Matthew 5:44) How many religions can you think of whose members engage in war?

▪ SPREADS FALSE DOCTRINE: Most religions teach that the soul or spirit is some invisible part of a human that survives the death of the physical body. By means of this teaching, many of these religions exploit their members, charging money to pray for departed souls. However, the Bible teaches a different doctrine. “The soul that is sinning​—it itself will die.” (Ezekiel 18:4) “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all.” (Ecclesiastes 9:5) Jesus taught that the dead will be resurrected​—an unnecessary action if humans had an immortal soul. (John 11:11-25) Does your religion teach that the soul does not die?
...

Regarding the part I bolded in the last paragraph there:

“However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you. . . . and because of them the way of the truth will be spoken of abusively. Also, they will greedily exploit you with counterfeit words.” (2 Peter 2:1-3)

originally posted by: SourceTruth

You sound just like that RamblerNash guy who made that youtube video about me.

Really?
You are an idiot. If I was ramblernash I would have known you were a fraud weeks ago.

originally posted by: SourceTruth
Are you just going to keep repeating yourself?

What do you think the penalty for grooming children online should be?

a reply to: whereislogic

That is because the bible is refering to the soulless ones in general when refering to men. It is not refering to me specifically, who I know has a soul.

a reply to: SourceTruth

Nobody has a soul.

a reply to: Barcs

I do.

originally posted by: SourceTruth
a reply to: whereislogic

That is because the bible is refering to the soulless ones in general when refering to men. It is not refering to me specifically, who I know has a soul.

I don't see how the Bible could be "referring to the soulless ones in general when refering to men" when it says that “the man came to be a living soul.” (Gen 2:7) Or in any of the other quotations I used to demonstrate that the Bible refers to men (and animals) as being souls, rather than having or not having souls.

We are souls, we do not have souls as something immaterial, invisible, and intangible residing inside us.

What is the origin of the teaching that the human soul is invisible and immortal?

The difficulty lies in the fact that the meanings popularly attached to the English word “soul” stem primarily, not from the Hebrew or Christian Greek Scriptures, but from ancient Greek philosophy, actually pagan religious thought. Greek philosopher Plato, for example, quotes Socrates as saying: “The soul, . . . if it departs pure, dragging with it nothing of the body, . . . goes away into that which is like itself, into the invisible, divine, immortal, and wise, and when it arrives there it is happy, freed from error and folly and fear . . . and all the other human ills, and . . . lives in truth through all after time with the gods.”​—Phaedo, 80, D, E; 81, A.

In direct contrast with the Greek teaching of the psy·kheʹ (soul) as being immaterial, intangible, invisible, and immortal, the Scriptures show that both psy·kheʹ and neʹphesh, as used with reference to earthly creatures, refer to that which is material, tangible, visible, and mortal.

The New Catholic Encyclopedia says: “Nepes [neʹphesh] is a term of far greater extension than our ‘soul,’ signifying life (Ex 21.23; Dt 19.21) and its various vital manifestations: breathing (Gn 35.18; Jb 41.13[21]), blood [Gn 9.4; Dt 12.23; Ps 140(141).8], desire (2 Sm 3.21; Prv 23.2). The soul in the O[ld] T[estament] means not a part of man, but the whole man​—man as a living being. Similarly, in the N[ew] T[estament] it signifies human life: the life of an individual, conscious subject (Mt 2.20; 6.25; Lk 12.22-23; 14.26; Jn 10.11, 15, 17; 13.37).”​—1967, Vol. XIII, p. 467.

The Roman Catholic translation, The New American Bible, in its “Glossary of Biblical Theology Terms” (pp. 27, 28), says: “In the New Testament, to ‘save one’s soul’ (Mk 8:35) does not mean to save some ‘spiritual’ part of man, as opposed to his ‘body’ (in the Platonic sense) but the whole person with emphasis on the fact that the person is living, desiring, loving and willing, etc., in addition to being concrete and physical.”​—Edition published by P. J. Kenedy & Sons, New York, 1970.

Neʹphesh evidently comes from a root meaning “breathe” and in a literal sense neʹphesh could be rendered as “a breather.” Koehler and Baumgartner’s Lexicon in Veteris Testamenti Libros (Leiden, 1958, p. 627) defines it as: “the breathing substance, making man a[nd] animal living beings Gn 1, 20, the soul (strictly distinct from the greek notion of soul) the seat of which is the blood Gn 9, 4f Lv 17, 11 Dt 12, 23: (249 X) . . . soul = living being, individual, person.”
...
The ancient Greek writers applied psy·kheʹ in various ways and were not consistent, their personal and religious philosophies influencing their use of the term. Of Plato, to whose philosophy the common ideas about the English “soul” may be attributed (as is generally acknowledged), it is stated: “While he sometimes speaks of one of [the alleged] three parts of the soul, the ‘intelligible,’ as necessarily immortal, while the other two parts are mortal, he also speaks as if there were two souls in one body, one immortal and divine, the other mortal.”​—The Evangelical Quarterly, London, 1931, Vol. III, p. 121, “Thoughts on the Tripartite Theory of Human Nature,” by A. McCaig.

In view of such inconsistency in non-Biblical writings, it is essential to let the Scriptures speak for themselves, showing what the inspired writers meant by their use of the term psy·kheʹ, as well as by neʹphesh. Neʹphesh occurs 754 times in the Masoretic text of the Hebrew Scriptures, while psy·kheʹ appears by itself 102 times in the Westcott and Hort text of the Christian Greek Scriptures, giving a total of 856 occurrences. (See NW appendix, p. 1573.) This frequency of occurrence makes possible a clear concept of the sense that these terms conveyed to the minds of the inspired Bible writers and the sense their writings should convey to our mind. An examination shows that, while the sense of these terms is broad, with different shades of meaning, among the Bible writers there was no inconsistency, confusion, or disharmony as to man’s nature, as existed among the Grecian philosophers of the so-called Classical Period.

Earth’s First Souls. The initial occurrences of neʹphesh are found at Genesis 1:20-23. ...

That's one of the ones I already quoted, the one where animals are referred to as souls.

The Human Soul. Precisely the same Hebrew phrase used of the animal creation, namely, neʹphesh chai·yahʹ (living soul), is applied to Adam, ...
...
Soul​—A Living Creature. As stated, man “came to be a living soul”; hence man was a soul, he did not have a soul as something immaterial, invisible, and intangible residing inside him. ...
...
Represents life as a creature. Both neʹphesh and psy·kheʹ are also used to mean life​—not merely as an abstract force or principle—​but life as a creature, human or animal. ...
...
Mortal and destructible. ... There is, in fact, not one case in the entire Scriptures, Hebrew and Greek, in which the words neʹphesh or psy·kheʹ are modified by terms such as immortal, indestructible, imperishable, deathless, or the like. ...
...
Dead soul. The expression ‘deceased or dead soul’ also appears a number of times, meaning simply “a dead person.” ...
...
Desire. ...
...
Serving With One’s Whole Soul. The “soul” basically means the entire person, as has been shown. ...
...
Soul and Spirit Are Distinct. ...
...
God as Having Soul. In view of the foregoing, it appears that the scriptures in which God speaks of “my soul” (Le 26:11, 30; Ps 24:4; Isa 42:1) are yet another instance of an anthropomorphic usage, that is, the attributing of physical and human characteristics to God to facilitate understanding, as when God is spoken of as having eyes, hands, and so forth. By speaking of ‘my neʹphesh,’ Jehovah clearly means “myself” or “my person.” “God is a Spirit [Pneuʹma].”​—Joh 4:24; see JEHOVAH (Descriptions of his presence).

Source: Soul (Insight on the Scriptures, Volume 2)

originally posted by: Spacespider
a reply to: SourceTruth

What is a soul ? what is it made out of ?

I imagine it to be an electrical plasma that if one could taste it, it would be blue raspberry flavored

originally posted by: SourceTruth
a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Are you just going to keep repeating yourself?

What do you think the penalty for grooming children online should be?

a reply to: whereislogic

To be more clear about what I meant, I was saying that the bible was not refering to me specifically when it says "men", it is just refering to all men in general. I don't think you are familiar with where I am coming from, its from a philosophical notion called solipsism: I am the center point of existence. I am not equivalent to the general category of "men" that the bible speaks of, I am beyond that.

a reply to: kiliker30

The soul is not constituted of anything, rather it is reality itaelf which is constituted and constructed from the starting point which is the soul.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Do you have anything productive to add to the conversation taking place?

originally posted by: SourceTruth
a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Do you have anything productive to add to the conversation taking place?

Why yes, yes I do...

What do you think the penalty for grooming children online should be?

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Stop disrupting the conversation.

a reply to: SourceTruth
My humblest apologies.

I thought this is how conversation works.
If you're unwilling to answer my questions just say so.

Don't even worry about how avoiding specific questions may hurt your credibility.

In case you forgot the question...

What do you think the penalty for grooming children online should be?

I will not respond to anyone trying to disrupt this thread.

originally posted by: SourceTruth
I will not respond to anyone trying to disrupt this thread.

Nor should you...
You are a magnificent being and anyone who says otherwise should not be given the time of day.