Boris Johnson asks Queen to suspend Parliament

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: uncommitted

Did you not read the post from UK not really the truth but I like to think I am? That person suggested it would be an army but not in uniform - best asking that person.

Not in one uniform. But, "Command and control"?

It's that time of day they feed you isn't it?

originally posted by: UKTruth

originally posted by: sapien82

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: sapien82


He was talking about spending money on infrastructure and the NHS etc. Sounds good to me, but then I am gullible.

He has shut down our democratic processes

How's that then?
I'd love to get you reasoning for that statement.
Brave enough to talk us through it?

Brave ? its not a challenge ,

Prorogue , to discontinue or suspend a session of parliament without dissolving it

Suspension of parliament is pretty obvious that it means we wont have an operating democracy until it resumes after the queen speech .

Which means the rest of parliament wont be able to carry out their duties as normal under the proroguing
so Boris has called for the "monarch" to shut down government so he can do as he sees fit.

what is it with the conservatives and running down the shot clock ?

BJ knows he can't get a no deal brexit hrough parliament (or possibly any deal)

By forcing parliaments hand to oppose it now then he can get an election called and run on a leave v remain campaign.

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2

originally posted by: sapien82
Why observe that when all we need to do is observe how consecutive governments in westminster have continued to ruin the UK . A union we no longer wish to be a part of because it is not within our best interests as a sovereign nation.

I see. Do you expect the EU to have your "best interests as a sovereign nation" in mind?

Patience is well advised. There is always time to go your own way.

Cheers

Who says we need the EU , the SNP want to remain in the EU

but once independence has been achieved , we can set our own constitution and protect all the things we like , just like the EU , yes the EU offers the single market and freedom of movement, everything else they offer Scotland can enshrine itself once becoming independent.

a reply to: UKTruth

...and the EU are discussing a 'real' EU army

That has been happening, "by other means". The Germans have assembled a collection of countries who have agreed to contribute troops to joint military ventures, joint training exercises, etc.

Softly, softly, catchee EU Army

Cheers

originally posted by: JPtruther

originally posted by: sapien82
Big sturgo isnae happy !

Shuttin g down parliament is a dictatorship

“If MPs don't come together next week to stop Boris Johnson in his tracks, then I think today will go down in history as the day UK democracy died. This simply can't be allowed to happen."

then boris explains

boris johnson on suspending parliament

I notice how he says "this country" , rather than" this Union "

What? Democracy died the day a democratic result was not upheld. Also didn’t democracy die when the Scots voted to stay in and now Sturgeon wants to make them vote AGAIN? I am so sick of that poisonous little hobbit Sturgeon. If you Scots are so keen on getting yourself out of the UK to then hand all your power back to the EU then please just shut up and go. We are all really beyond bored of listening to Scotland whining

Whats the matter did Nicola steal your sweet roll ?

Also whats with this "we"

You mean "you" are tired of hearing Scots talk about their independence, oh my imagine being annoyed by people wanting to shape their own future, how egalitarian of you.


We didn't take power from the EU , we took it back from Westminster , we just want all that decision making to happen in Holyrood not Westmister

originally posted by: sapien82

Who says we need the EU , the SNP want to remain in the EU

but once independence has been achieved , we can set our own constitution and protect all the things we like , just like the EU , yes the EU offers the single market and freedom of movement, everything else they offer Scotland can enshrine itself once becoming independent.

That is an option. But realistically it would place Scotland between a rock called England and a hard spot called the EU. Not sure that is an improvement on your current situation.

Not that I have a stake in the matter, mind you. I have Scottish ancestry and hope all works out best for Scotland.

Cheers

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Boris has pulled the trigger and started the process to prorogued parliament adding to the constitutional mess we find ourselves in.

Or in an attempt to end the political stalemate so this country can move on , 3 years is more than long enough.

Th remainers in Parliament who were plotting to seize control of Parliament by bringing down the government are upset now Johnson has pissed on their bonfire before they could piss on his .... Good !

Johnson may be a Tory scumbag but I'm right behind him on this.

Leave means leave , deal or no deal.

originally posted by: F2d5thCavv2

originally posted by: sapien82

Who says we need the EU , the SNP want to remain in the EU

but once independence has been achieved , we can set our own constitution and protect all the things we like , just like the EU , yes the EU offers the single market and freedom of movement, everything else they offer Scotland can enshrine itself once becoming independent.

That is an option. But realistically it would place Scotland between a rock called England and a hard spot called the EU. Not sure that is an improvement on your current situation.

Not that I have a stake in the matter, mind you. I have Scottish ancestry and hope all works out best for Scotland.

Cheers

A rock called England ? more like a wet paper bag given its current state
Well I think that it cant get any worse than say another 10 years of conservative rule and austerity and governments that nae # in Scotland voted for . Or another war we didn't want , or a market crash we need to bail banks out .

I think we have had enough and its time we part ways.
a Union requires all members to work together, and this Union clearly isnt working together
its the most logical step to abolish the Union and go our separate ways.

a reply to: sapien82

I think we have had enough and its time we part ways.

I've no idea of the political atmosphere in Scotland. What percentage, roughly, of the population would agree with you?

and this Union clearly isnt working together

Waitaminute. We talking about the UK or the EU here?!

Cheers

a reply to: sapien82

I think we have had enough and its time we part ways.

Then what ?
Scotland will be a country all on it's own with no money and scarce resources to make its way in the world , you will have to apply to become a member of the EU which will take time and the application will be rejected because of countries like Spain and Belgium who won't agree to Scotland being admitted for their own internal reasons.

You were asked the question and rejected it , Sturgeon is just another self serving politician who can't take No for an answer.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: sapien82

I think we have had enough and its time we part ways.

Then what ?
Scotland will be a country all on it's own with no money and scarce resources to make its way in the world , you will have to apply to become a member of the EU which will take time and the application will be rejected because of countries like Spain and Belgium who won't agree to Scotland being admitted for their own internal reasons.

You were asked the question and rejected it , Sturgeon is just another self serving politician who can't take No for an answer.

A newly independent Scotland has as much money as it wants and considerably more resources per capita than rUK.

Given England has just pissed off the entire EU then I suspect Scotland would have a considerably easier entry into the EU if it wishes this it would have been back in 2014.

a reply to: ScepticScot

I suspect Scotland would have a considerably easier entry into the EU

Perhaps. But that doesn't guarantee good treatment once in the EU. Scotland would do well to proceed at a measured pace. Jumping into a new situation because "we're mad at the English" is not a basis for sound decisions.

Cheers

a reply to: gortex

Aye you get it man, all on our own , masters of our own future
being poor but independent will be better than being poor and being in a union with westminster telling us what to do.
Then its entirely on Scotland if we # it up right , not the UK's problem.
One less thorn in the side which is apparently what Scotland are according to many politicians "in that place"

We were asked the question in 2014 its now 2019.
We vote on our government every 5 years so why not independence ?

The politcal landscape has changed so much , we should be able to do so as we please as a sovereign nation and "equal" partner in a union of nations, we should be able to hold a referendum whenever we see fit.

Who cares about sturgeon , she is just a vehicle for our independence, you forget the scottish government voted unanimously on the mandate for independence not just the SNP.
Once we achieve that we will vote on a new government once that is formed and fully functional.

in any case , may I ask why you are bothered if Scotland leaves, we take more than we give dont we ?

a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

hey mate

I was referring the to the UK

having a quick look and I found this

Asked how they would vote in such a contest, 46% said they would vote Yes to independence, and 43% No. Excluding those who say they don’t know or wouldn’t vote, this amounts to a lead of 52% to 48% for an independent Scotland. This is the first lead for independence in a published poll since an Ipsos MORI survey in March 2017, and the biggest lead since a spate of polls in June 2016, shortly after the UK voted to leave the EU.

from Lord Ashcroft blog

My Scotland Poll

This is on the question of independence.

However on the Issue of leaving the EU scotland voted unanimously to remain.

a reply to: sapien82

from Lord Ashcroft blog

Be interesting to see what happens. The Scots are a tough bunch and will survive regardless.



Cheers

Everyone is gonna die. The Pound PLUMMETED one whole percent!!!!!! Gonna make that disney vaca a little more pricey eh.


www.express.co.uk...

I feel like since I started this thread I should probably actually post something by way of contribution.

I want to emphasise that what follows is my opinion, I understand that some have different opinions and I can respect that.

So I think that Boris has played a very clever game, he has limited the time that the opposition have to extend article 50 or to call a no confidence vote. Yet in doing so he has tarnished our democratic parliament. Parliament must be heard, parliament is the electorates representatives, parliament is sovereign, like it or not under our democratic process parliament must have its say on these matters and Boris is shutting this down. He's done it though in such a way as to make any political options to block a no-deal all but impossible yet still looking like he is giving them some time. I have to give it to him its a pretty ballsy play.

This has created a bit of a war between parliament and government with the queen now thrust into the middle of it so its really furthered the political crisis we find the country in. This could backfire on him, it could push a number of conservative backbenchers to vote against the government either in a no-confidence vote or in pushing through new legislation to prevent any no-deal Brexit. It will be very interesting to see what happens next week when parliament returns.

My feeling is that we are heading for a no-deal Brexit, I don't think that is in the best interests of the country but its happening and I think we are getting to the stage where we actually need to focus on how we are going to support the entire country in a no-deal.

finally yes, I think this pushes us Scotts closer to independence but really I think that is a bit of a separate issue and we need to weather this Brexit storm before we start a fuller conversation about Scottish independence.

My wife says screw the Scots. And i gotta agree. Go yur own way as fleetwood mac would say.



a reply to: F2d5thCavv2

a reply to: lakenheath24
On the other hand, more foreigners will buy British goods because they will be cheaper.