Trump's Solution to the Census Debacle - GENIUS!

a reply to: DBCowboy

That's a crude, but essentially correct way of putting it. When the DoC compiles the Census reports, they will include information from other agencies to classify citizenship.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: TheRedneck

..., so I'll EO that data from the FBI, ATF. and other sources and extrajudiciously compile the lists in house."

Yeah, that's kind of nightmare fuel, isn't it. I think the EO is specific enough to limit the activity to Commerce, which as OP pointed out, still requires a judge's sign-off for LE to query.

I would like to know, if anyone can explain it for me, why you can't ask for citizenship status on a US census form? Why does Trump even need to do a runaround on that? Seems like a basic question. I think it was a good runaround. Shows off how he actually does have some skill at running an organization.

a reply to: Tempter

No it won't work that way. The census will control. But the political power of knowing the actual illegal immigration numbers could massively change things. As it stands nobody knows the real numbers, and because of that, it's easy to underestimate or overestimate them depending upon what political point you're trying to make.

By Trump doing this, he's shining a bright light on something that has been willfully ignored for a very long time.

a reply to: Tempter

Does this even change the representation?

Isn't that the goal?

Actually, it prevents the representation from being changed. Only citizens are allowed to vote, and the districting is in place to ensure that different areas receive proportional representation based on the number of voters. If Illegal aliens (or even legal aliens) are counted in with the citizens without differentiation, that skews the results for representation.

As I understand it, 2010 was the first and only US Census that did not mention citizenship. I know it surprised me when I saw it wasn't even asked.

TheRedneck

a reply to: network dude

Of course they wont...they'll spend their time trying to explain to the black community how they were never abandoned and pick up from there.

a reply to: TheRedneck

As I understand it, 2010 was the first and only US Census that did not mention citizenship.

I heard the same thing. It was on the census up until 2000. The 2010 did not include it. Did Barack Obama request that it be removed, and if so, why?

a reply to: Zelun

I would like to know, if anyone can explain it for me, why you can't ask for citizenship status on a US census form?

According to the recent Supreme Court decision, he can ask it. But the establishment has been very good at using the legal system to stonewall the issue until the Census forms are now being printed (the deadline was July 30 according to Pelosi earlier). So Trump had two choices: wait until the 2030 Census to get it included (6 years after he leaves office) and hope the next administrations don't drop the ball, or go this route.

I think he made the right decision, even if the precedent scares me.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

I'd like to read more about that algorithm. Where have you heard this?

a reply to: queenofswords

I really don't know...

TheRedneck

a reply to: Zelun

As I said in the OP, it was televised on live stream from Fox 10 in Phoenix.

He didn't go into any deeper detail.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

a reply to: Zelun

Thank you!

I'm not sure how his speech was a "reversal," but it's the Washington Post... they had to spin it.

TheRedneck

a reply to: loam

I understand the concern however I think if there is something they really want the goerrnment does not use their records. Think about it...

Google, Facebook and Amazon ALL have more and probably better information than the government about you.

Besides, The firewalls that were there to stop the sharing of data is part of what allowed 9/11 to happen. I do not see anything wrong with this.

There is no need for a gun role call although many states are trying. It is not the same though.

It is your right to have a gun.
It is your right to know how many people live in the US.

His EO is really just enforcing the law...right?

a reply to: Zelun

I would like to know, if anyone can explain it for me, why you can't ask for citizenship status on a US census form? Why does Trump even need to do a runaround on that?

They do. In 2010 they decided that ALL forms would be the short form that does not include the question. Long form still and always will. There is also a new agency formed called the ACS that does collect all that data but the census uses it for other things. It helps to disburse monies for the government. Won't hear any of this on the news though it is just bad Trump...

www.census.gov...

Look into it...

a reply to: TheRedneck

Pretty good speech, I think he nailed it.
EO 0:45
talking about databases from DHS and SSA

"We have great knowledge in many of our agencies." 1:36
"We're aiming to count...everyone." 2:00
"It will be, we think, more accurate." 2:11
"...not too much to ask..." 2:39

Yeah. Cool talk. Good pacing, he had good inflection. He talked about using databases, but didn't mention an algorithm. Seemed like more of a spreadsheet problem. SSA archives go back. If you want to look at a chart of number of wage earners per capita over time I might look there.

I read somewhere that the representation is based on actual population, not citizens only, which makes sense if the question has not been asked in other years.

I'll see if I can find it, if true.

originally posted by: loam

DHS, HHS, IRS, Department of State, SSA, etc... Many of these agencies house citizenship data.

At a minimum, we know who are the citizens. The net would prove the illegal number in comparison to the census data.

I think the SC even stated there are other, even better ways to determine citizenship, so why not use those over the questionnaire, so I guess that is exactly what he is doing.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: DBCowboy

That's a crude, but essentially correct way of putting it. When the DoC compiles the Census reports, they will include information from other agencies to classify citizenship.

TheRedneck

Thank you.



I learned something new today!


Now as for my opinion on it?

Let 'em. It's not like they are trolling for new data and our freedoms and privacy are still intact.

a reply to: TheRedneck

It was an uncut, unedited stream of the speech Trump gave with regard to the US Census question of "Are you a US citizen."

That question is on your application for a driver's license, your job application, maybe bail and credit applications. But, that wasn't actually the question, as it would appear on the census.


www.pewresearch.org...

It appears that by asking the question that way, the government is trying to classify types of citizens according to how they became citizens.

a reply to: Sookiechacha

Old outdated article 😎