Trying to resolve 9/11

a reply to: kwakakev

So despite the fact that ALL of the FDNY eyewitnesses actually near WTC 7 that day, have stated that WTC 7 had been so badly damaged by the collapse of the North Tower, that they expected it to FALL....you say that means nothing compared to a YouTube narrator?

Despite the fact that FDNY was so bothered by the damage that they set up surveying equipment that showed WTC 7 was slowly shifting to the south....you say that means nothing compared to a YouTube narrator.

So, despite all of the evidence from the people who were actually there....you say that means nothing compared to a YouTube narrator? (Well and it means nothing compared to the words of Richard Gage, who made a pretty good living peddling conspiracies until recently)

a reply to: neutronflux

I get it. What can I do anyway? Life goes on, these things happen. Maybe in time once everyone is long dead and all the gold has been spent a clearer image of the investigations that did take place might leak out. Maybe it wont and its all just another days of our lives drama to be buried by the sand of time.

I do hear more people waking up, see rising animosity at US global aggression. Maybe its nothing. How we all deal with it as an individual and as a society will define us.

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: neutronflux

I get it. What can I do anyway? Life goes on, these things happen. Maybe in time once everyone is long dead and all the gold has been spent a clearer image of the investigations that did take place might leak out. Maybe it wont and its all just another days of our lives drama to be buried by the sand of time.

I do hear more people waking up, see rising animosity at US global aggression. Maybe its nothing. How we all deal with it as an individual and as a society will define us.

How about citing what type of pyrotechnics were used in the CD fantasy, where they were planted, why there is no proof of the burning/exploding in the video/audio/seismic evidence with no proof in the metallurgy. But there is clear evidence the floor connections were bent down or sheared by a large falling mass from still standing vertical columns.....

a reply to: neutronflux

You are funny.

a reply to: kwakakev

I started this thread as an individual to help with how I handle it.

That is simple

either move on or be stuck in the whirlpool that will only harm you and your mind the longer you stay in it.

I try to stay away from 9/11 because it hurts me, But its hard to walk away,

Its hard to realize manipulation and allow yourself to break free from it.

At least you are aware there is a bigger picture to it all.

Most people denying demolition and other conspiracy theories put forth do too.

But its the abundance of information and posts people make that makes it hard to see certain posters who are against theories put forth by the truth movement are actually the best chance at enlightenment and a push towards questions that need to be asked because they are fighting the repeated claims that are... sorry to say nonsense after real investigation into certain claims like demolition are done.

after many years many will become cynical towards things said concerning 9/11 and repeated conspiracy theories that many have understood to be bunk for good reason, I have become like this towards Ufology and the many claims brought up by random persons on the internet, on 9/11 forums the same as well simply because of the time passed and the merry go round one witnesses.

There is much frustration from all sides of the fence in the 9/11 forum, its guaranteed every thread will go off topic and onto anther part of something involved with 9/11

My..... what could be interpreted... as rude words about parroting YouTube videos is what I used to do before i joined ATS and used to try to convince and find others that agreed with the conspiracy theories about that day.

I was fairly well versed in psychology back then but I could not see how the traumatic event and the information I started to absorb influenced and actually formed my thoughts due to my ignorance about certain things.

I started realizing this with many other conspiracies that I was dead set were true like chemtrails.

It was all how and where I absorbed the information to manipulate my belief in addition to my ignorance towards subjects connected to whatever conspiracy I believed in, With Chemtrails, basic aviation knowledge and a level of understanding of meteorology helped me realize how dumb I was when certain things after learning them just show how easy it is fool a person that thinks they have certain level of intelligence but are ignorant to many things concerning certain conspiracies.

Youtube videos and web sites designed to push conspiracy ideas use tactics that provides an abundance of info in a way that makes sense to anyone unless they have great understanding about the things involved.

Most conspiracies have many moving parts so to speak, many things to know about because many claims and answers are thrown at you by videos or websites pushing conspiracies.

More often than not a scientist or claims of a scientist is used that says this or that in a logical way that makes sense, its 1+1=2, your mind doesn't question it unless you actually fully understand what is being claimed and what is being said and how it could be out of context or only half true, half right and half wrong.

If its a youtube video, usually at a certain point of the video when they want to shock you with so called enlightening information a score of music in the background will be playing to really hit home how serious and true this must be.

Its exactly how bug budget hollywood movies make certain scenes so much more powerful and emotional.

Its form of manipulating your mind via sound to make things more powerful, believable or emotional.

Just about all conspiracy videos do this, it whats makes them so interesting to watch and some so mind blowing.

originally posted by: kwakakev
a reply to: neutronflux

You are funny.

How about addressing real issues of WTC CD like:

How about citing what type of pyrotechnics were used in the CD fantasy, where they were planted, why there is no proof of the burning/exploding in the video/audio/seismic evidence with no proof in the metallurgy. But there is clear evidence the floor connections were bent down or sheared by a large falling mass from still standing vertical columns.....

Instead of trying to weave a tapestry of vague innuendo.

a reply to: neutronflux

with no proof in the metallurgy

Proof by what entity and study?

a reply to: democracydemo

By all means, quote the results by NIST from standard metallurgical tests they conducted on WTC steel samples. Do you think a lab has to conduct a peer review paper every time blood is drawn and results to a doctor are submitted. Or a fire marshal has to submit a peer reviewed research paper every time evidence in an arson case is submitted.

It’s the same for standard established metallurgical lab tests of structural steel and grain boundary analysis.

a reply to: neutronflux

That reply ain't worth the steam of my piss. neutronflux "The Confusor" at work.

No metallurgical tests for explosive residue ever done. Yes?

a reply to: democracydemo

Because there was no need to do said tests. They were able to identify the structural supports where the collapses initiated and those supports showed no signs of explosive severing. In other words, no evidence of demolition charges. So, why do the residue test?

originally posted by: democracydemo
a reply to: neutronflux

That reply ain't worth the steam of my piss. neutronflux "The Confusor" at work.

No metallurgical tests for explosive residue ever done. Yes?

One, any microscope examination of the mental grain of any failure would reveal if a suspect pieces was worked on by pyrotechnics.

Two, any trained metallurgist is going to be able to identify if a piece of steel failed from being overloaded/elongated/sheared vs being washed/burnt/splintered by explosives vs cut by thermite by sight. If all the failures were from overloading/elongated/shearing why would they test for explosives. And they are still looked at representative failures at the grain level of the metal anyway.

Three. You don’t run a investigation for specific failures. You look at the failures to determine what they are. Why would you randomly test 200,000 tons of steel for each tower for explosives? The steel grain boundaries of representative failures are going to be looked at anyway. When there is no evidence of steel worked on by pyrotechnics. When a trained metallurgist can determine what the failures are by stated test guidelines.

It’s like testing the brake lines on a 70’s Chevy because the engine will not start.

Another example, do you test the atmospheric concentration of oxygen every time a car doesn’t start and write a peer review study on it.

a reply to: neutronflux

Square root of nowt -reply

So yes. No metallurgical tests for explosive residue was ever done?

a reply to: democracydemo

Because there were no signs of explosives under the examination that was done. The explosive severing of steel, leaves behind plenty of evidence, besides residue. And since there were absolutely NO OTHER SIGNS of explosives, why test for residue?

originally posted by: democracydemo
a reply to: neutronflux

Square root of nowt -reply

So yes. No metallurgical tests for explosive residue was ever done?

Did you read anything posted? Do you even know what metallurgy is?

Metallurgical failure analysis is the process by which a metallurgist determines the mechanism that has caused a metal component to fail.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

If there was no steel failures due to explosives, why would you test for residue?

Two. I don’t think you understand how testing for residue works.

There was no indication of explosives. There was no bomb fragments, no demolitions shrapnel. There was no structural failures due to pyrotechnics.

That leaves randomly testing over 1,000,000 tons of rubble contaminated with jet fuel residue, residue from things like exploding industrial AC units, and batteries from battery rooms. The WTC pile was exposed to rain, and being sprayed down to prevent smoldering materials from flashing into a fire.

So, how would it be meaningful to randomly test 1,000,000 tons of rubble with no indication of failures from explosives? No bomb fragments to analyze, and no shrapnel? From debris that sat in a toxic smoldering:steaming pile exposed to the elements, and sprayed down with water for up to three months?

So. Please explain where meaningful residue samples were to be taken.

a reply to: InhaleExhale

I agree 9/11 is a whirlpool that is best kept out of. Looking at some of it leads straight to the top, world banks, fortune 500, royalty and other established world leaders, wall street. Then to address it would put a big dent in the military budget, lots of jobs and competitive advantage on the global stage gone. How would Israel fair with no more big brother in the region to lean on?

A lot of internal infrastructure will be unaffected by any house cleaning if America choose too. It would not destroy all America, but would destroy some groups and cultures within it. Some with very well recognized names and very large bank account. Without any justice on the foreign policy front there is a growing risk of losing it all.

I have seen a lot of the nonsense court cases go one. GW Bush does have one uncle who is a judge. Since 9/11 he has been one of the main weed whackers dismissing cases involving the 9/11 subject with prejudice. I am sure there are many people in the justice system that would love to see reasonable answers as well. With the approval for 9/11 starting at the top, the justice system is stuck in the the chain of command like we all are.

I do agree that views like 'where is the evidence for explosives?' are needed to get to the bottom of this. With most of the evidence now cleaned up, there is still some remaining with those 9/11 meteorites. There are a few of them around. I would be surprised if no independent studies or analysis have been conducted on them yet. They are one of the few places left to find that smoking gun.

I have been through the frustration. Had it out with Good ol Dave and a few others many years ago on this site. Now I am more curious about it all. I fully agree that the psychology of 9/11 is a part to understanding it all.

a reply to: InhaleExhale

after many years many will become cynical towards things said concerning 9/11 and repeated conspiracy theories that many have understood to be bunk for good reason

I am finding this with people who spent too long in the whirlpool. As for your average citizen who has since seen WCT7 fall and made the connection that it takes months to prepare a controlled demolition. Most of them just have their cynicism and fear towards government increased. They do not know where to start or what to do, they just know evil exist.

The events of 9/11 very much affected the people that approved the plan. It is totally within their interest to keep it all under wraps.

The events of 9/11 also affected the world. The world does have a right and responsibility to ask why?

Why does America let its own people die and cover it up? Is this the rules of the game of how we are suppose to act in a civilized society? Do you know just how weak that all looks. Not one ounce of moral fiber and you expect us to fight with you?

a reply to: kwakakev

When America decides to kill one of its citizens under capital punishment, it does provide a good level of review and courtesy to make sure it is doing the right thing. Surly the same levels of justice should apply when America decides to kill a nation.

The WMD lies of Iraq, Back stab Libya, trying in Syria and now you want to start on Iran. Germany acted this way leading up to WW2.

Since WTC 1 & 2 were designed to "withstand a jet impact", how did they test it?

a reply to: neutronflux

How about addressing real issues of WTC CD like: .....

There are many issues that arise from from a WTC CD like the large scale support it has received from official channels and sources. The word from the top down was here's the story, stick to it.

So as an individual I am to be ok with that? The government told me so must be right? right? And even if it is not right I am suppose to help make it right? I am sure there are a lot of good reasons and intentions the people had for doing what was done. From what I see a very serious line has been crossed. A continuing failure to recognizes this in foreign policy circles is creating a growing divide and increased hostility amongst nations.