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Federal Tipped Minimum Wage of $2.13 is Indentured Servitude?

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posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 01:39 PM
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The vast majority of states allow employers to pay workers below the federal minimum age if they can make up the difference in tips. “Any job that pays $2.13 an hour is not a job. It’s indentured servitude,” Ocasio-Cortez said. “All labor has dignity and the way that we give labor dignity is by paying people the respect and the value that they are worth.” That is why, she argued, the national minimum wage must increase to $15 an hour. It is particularly important to guarantee a minimum wage to workers in cities with a high cost of living, Ocasio-Cortez argued. “When our rents are running away, when our food costs are running away, in dense cities like New York, Chicago, San Francisco, we need to make sure that people are paid enough to live, period,” she said.


slate.com...

I understand AOC's opinion on the subject; it is natural to question why tipped employees are treated differently than none tipped employees.

But I wonder if the move would hurt these workers more than it helps. Clearly if tipped workers are paid $15 an hour before tips that cost will be passed onto the consumer. Which is fine in and of its self; but could a change like this wind up hurting the employee? Will the public stop tipping or tip less as a result? And if so will this cancel out or even decrease the benefit of the increased wage?

I am a national big tipper; I can put myself in the position of a waiter and can sympathize with the idea that they can always use a few extra bucks; especially knowing that others don't tip enough, if at all. The only time I don't tip more than i should is when the restaurant automatically adds the gratuity to the bill; figuring that if that is what they consider a fair tip why should I argue. But I think I may abandon tipping for the same reason if they increase the standard minimum wage so that non tipped and tipped employees are equally treated.




posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 01:45 PM
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originally posted by: DanDanDat

The vast majority of states allow employers to pay workers below the federal minimum age if they can make up the difference in tips. “Any job that pays $2.13 an hour is not a job. It’s indentured servitude,” Ocasio-Cortez said. “All labor has dignity and the way that we give labor dignity is by paying people the respect and the value that they are worth.” That is why, she argued, the national minimum wage must increase to $15 an hour. It is particularly important to guarantee a minimum wage to workers in cities with a high cost of living, Ocasio-Cortez argued. “When our rents are running away, when our food costs are running away, in dense cities like New York, Chicago, San Francisco, we need to make sure that people are paid enough to live, period,” she said.


slate.com...

I understand AOC's opinion on the subject; it is natural to question why tipped employees are treated differently than none tipped employees.

But I wonder if the move would hurt these workers more than it helps. Clearly if tipped workers are paid $15 an hour before tips that cost will be passed onto the consumer. Which is fine in and of its self; but could a change like this wind up hurting the employee? Will the public stop tipping or tip less as a result? And if so will this cancel out or even decrease the benefit of the increased wage?

I am a national big tipper; I can put myself in the position of a waiter and can sympathize with the idea that they can always use a few extra bucks; especially knowing that others don't tip enough, if at all. The only time I don't tip more than i should is when the restaurant automatically adds the gratuity to the bill; figuring that if that is what they consider a fair tip why should I argue. But I think I may abandon tipping for the same reason if they increase the standard minimum wage so that non tipped and tipped employees are equally treated.



If restaurant employees are paid $15/hr, then tips would dry up as prices would have to rise and customers are not going to tip salaried employees. No restaurant can afford to pay servers $15/hr.

I usually tip 20% at restaurants.

Some waiters at top restaurants can make like $75k/yr though so how much is this really needed? I mean I recently had dinner at Mastro's Steakhouse in Chicago with wife. The bill was like $200... and that didn't even include alcohol. I tipped $50. This waiter was probably serving 4 or 5 other tables. You do the math...



posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 01:47 PM
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I bet she is projecting from her ACTUAL work experience where her general stupidity also played a role in being tipped poorly.

This "server" was picked as an intentional provocateur politician by a small, scummy ny prog demorat group.

She needs removed from office and charged with fraud.




posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 01:48 PM
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a reply to: DanDanDat

In the UK we have service charge included but I do think many in the catering industry are underpaid.

My rule of thumb is that if the food and the service is good then I will always tip.



posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 01:56 PM
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My ex-wife makes killer money waitressing. Way more than I. I know if the person just serving food is making $15/hr, I'm not tipping.



posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 01:58 PM
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a reply to: DanDanDat

As someone who worked in the industry for decades I can honestly say I'd rather make $2 and make tips than $15 and make none. As it stands with the system in place your income is usually determined by merit- if you're great at your job you do quite well compared to those who don't give adequate effort, which is much more fair than everyone making equal pay regardless of effort.



posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 02:03 PM
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An indentured servant or indentured laborer is an employee (indenturee) within a system of unfree labor who is bound by a signed or forced contract (indenture) to work for a particular employer for a fixed time. ... On completion of the contract, indentured servants were given their freedom, and occasionally plots of land.


Doesn't apply to someone voluntarily working as a waiter/waitress. Just the fact you have to use phony rhetoric to start your argument means you're full of BS.



posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 02:04 PM
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a reply to: DanDanDat


I'm not tipping or drastically cutting the amount I tip if the server is making $15 an hour. This is coming from a chronic over-tipper since I was in the industry for a good amount of time and I know what serving entails.



posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 02:09 PM
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a reply to: DanDanDat

I tip only if the service received warrants it. I'm not tipping 'em for just showing up.

I've tipped as high as 50% when I thought the server went well above the call of duty.

Though I think 2.13 is far too little, because there are going to be days when there aren't many tips. Too many customers like me...



posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 02:34 PM
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a reply to: DanDanDat

All labor that pays less for a full time work week than one person could possibly survive off, is indentured servitude...


At least in a society that requires money....


Minimum wage should be set at the least it takes to pay for a crap studio apartment, food, phone, Heath care and transportation to and from work... minimum..


If a job isn’t doing that... then are they really a profitable business??? Or are they really just a slum lord



posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 02:38 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

If servers are making 15$ an hour, tips are no longer necessary...


That said people are used to tipping.. it will take a generation for that to change.. at least..


If a business requires paying people less than they can support just themselves on to be profitable...


Is it really profitable, or are we just allowing slum lords to prey on the powerless?



posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 02:40 PM
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a reply to: Wide-Eyes

All industries are underpaid below upper management...

Look at any graph that charts entry level employ pay to ceo pay , or that compares both of those things to inflation..

CEO pay has climbed 1,000s of percents whole entry level pay has barely doubled..


I forget the actual numbers but will try and find it..



posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 02:42 PM
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I believe that Washington DC tried this. Some group thought that it was doing people a favor. The bartenders, waiters and waitresses sued to get the law changed back.

I've got $20 that says Occasionally Coherent is shilling for the unions on this. That $2.13 per hour isn't worth taking union dues out of. $15 per hour is. This is the same thing that has California redefining what constitutes a contractor and an employee.



posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 02:44 PM
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a reply to: Wide-Eyes

This shows the present rates of al the top companies...


www.glassdoor.com...

Here is a chart that compares them over years..


images.app.goo.gl...



posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 02:46 PM
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a reply to: DanDanDat

Since 1995

“CEO Pay Up 298%, Average Worker's? 4.3% (1995-2005)”

consumerist.com...


I doubt the consumerist is a liberal organization lol..



posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 02:50 PM
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originally posted by: JustJohnny
a reply to: Wide-Eyes

This shows the present rates of al the top companies...


www.glassdoor.com...

Here is a chart that compares them over years..


images.app.goo.gl...


Put the kool-aide down. That measure is completely meaningless as it depends on the type of company and employees being hired. It was pushed as a measure by SJWs but is completely worthless.

The CEO of say McDonald's will make many times more than than a typical worker because the typical worker is a low paid, low skilled worker in restaurants. On the other hand, the CEO of say a tech company make have a lower ratio because the typical worker is more skilled and making more money as programmers.



posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 02:50 PM
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a reply to: JIMC5499

I doubt that...

I bet dollars to donuts the companies lobbied to get that done..

If the company is responsible for paying 700% more for server labor, because previously they were shifting that responsibility to the server/customer..

So who will lose the most money??

The server or the business??


Who has billions on the line making throwing millions at lobbiests perfectly reasonable???


Not someone waiting tables lol...



It has never been hard for the rich to buy or fool a poor person into helping them hurt other poor people... that is old as creation.



posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 02:51 PM
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originally posted by: DanDanDat

But I wonder if the move would hurt these workers more than it helps. Clearly if tipped workers are paid $15 an hour before tips that cost will be passed onto the consumer. Which is fine in and of its self; but could a change like this wind up hurting the employee? Will the public stop tipping or tip less as a result? And if so will this cancel out or even decrease the benefit of the increased wage?

I am a national big tipper; I can put myself in the position of a waiter and can sympathize with the idea that they can always use a few extra bucks; especially knowing that others don't tip enough, if at all. The only time I don't tip more than i should is when the restaurant automatically adds the gratuity to the bill; figuring that if that is what they consider a fair tip why should I argue. But I think I may abandon tipping for the same reason if they increase the standard minimum wage so that non tipped and tipped employees are equally treated.



In many parts of the world there is no tipping, and I'm OK with that...just give me the bill and I'll pay it, if I think the cost is too much for what I get I will just go to another place next time.



posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 02:53 PM
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a reply to: Edumakated

lol me put the Kools Aid down?!?!


A) my next post was a link that showed science 1995 CEO pay has gone up 300% while worker pay rose 4.3...


Those are percents.. and in a perfect world would stay the same..

B) the chart handles over years..



posted on Jun, 3 2019 @ 02:55 PM
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originally posted by: JustJohnny
If the company is responsible for paying 700% more for server labor, because previously they were shifting that responsibility to the server/customer..

So who will lose the most money??


The server, nearly every time.

They can make $120 in an 8 hour shift on minimum wage or they could make significantly more by receiving gratuities on every table they wait based on the total check amount.




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