Federal Tipped Minimum Wage of $2.13 is Indentured Servitude?

a reply to: JustJohnny

Friendly reminder, almost none of the people making minimum wage are supporting a family. It's high school kids making a little spending cash.

Among employed teenagers (ages 16 to 19) paid by the hour, about 8 percent earned the minimum wage or less, compared with about 1 percent of workers age 25 and older.

about 4 percent of those without a high school diploma earned the federal minimum wage or less, compared with about 2 percent of those who had a high school diploma (with no college), about 2 percent of those with some college or an associate degree, and about 1 percent of college graduates.

Marital status. Of those paid an hourly wage, never-married workers, who tend to be young, were more likely (4 percent) than married workers (1 percent) to earn the federal minimum wage or less.

www.bls.gov...

a reply to: Krakatoa

Exactly, I remember one point in my life where I worked 8-5pm office job, evenings worked convenience store /gas station from 6pm to closing, and on weekends, worked in Kitchen of an Italian restaurant. It was draining, but also very rewarding.

It was a good life experience and forced me to recognize that I was living beyond my means. As I wisened up and tweaked my personal budgets/expenses, I was able to comfortably return to an income from 40 hours.

Having handouts or demanding employers pay you more will keep you from taking personal responsibility and nothing will change. Increased income by others is not appreciated for it's real value. It will be wasted and you will be demanding more again and again, instead of correcting your actual individual money issue...your personal budget/purchasing idealism.



Edit add: to stay on OP topic: if the majority of tipped min wage employees were only making $2.13 and not actually getting any tips, they should seek employment elsewhere or perhaps in a different line of work. It is not indentured servitude since you can choose to not work. It is an individual personal decision that is your responsibility to make, not the employer.

originally posted by: BrianFlanders
She's right but....

1. The actual minimum wage still isn't a living wage so it's kind of a moot point to start the debate at people who pay below minimum wage.

2. She's really just using it to sell a solution that isn't really a solution. Which there actually isn't one without going to places nobody is really willing to go (population control and so forth).

I just re-read this and needed to clarify that I think it's odd that she claims her beef is that things aren't fair and then she starts out with accepting minimum wage as fair when it hasn't been a living wage for as long as I can remember. Or, more to the point, she argues there are people who don't pay minimum wage. As if that would just fix everything. It just strikes me as someone who isn't serious or isn't being smart about it.

The point I would make is that minimum wage is already a whip that drives the reluctant, the unwilling and the unable to try to claw their way up to a wage they can actually live on. And when they fail, minimum wage does not save them.

The fact is: someone will pay the wage. Either the employer through higher wages (and much higher menu prices as a result) or the customer through tips (and the hidden cost that lies therein).

The states have a stake here, as higher menu prices = higher sales taxes. Uncle Sam gets his payroll tax either way.

But it isn't slavery or anything like that. Its just the system we have in place. Servers in my current operation average in the $20/hr range on slow pay periods.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

If I would give her credit for being thoughtful on the subject; I'd assume she isn't trying to fix the problem you bring up because it is a bridge to far. It would be more of a mistake to give up incremental improvement because it doesn't fix everything in one shot.

My question would be more along the lines of whether or not her suggestion really is an improvement. It sounds to me that working toward the elimination of tip wages she might wind up lowering these people's take home pay.

a reply to: GeauxHomeYoureDrunk

Exactly. 15 bucks an hour works out to about 30K a year for someone working full time. I have waited tables at not so nice restaurants and made significantly more than that in tips. Once again, AOC is off the reservation.

originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan

But it isn't slavery or anything like that. Its just the system we have in place.

Actually the system we have in place is slavery. Which isn't to say I have a better idea. But I'm just calling it what it is. The basic definition of the word "slave" is met to my satisfaction by the system we have in place. Very few people can actually live without participating in the system that is in place and it is therefore (effectively) mandatory.

The next prong is that the fine print of the laws that we live under essentially designates us as property of the state. So technically, we are still slaves. We're just not owned by private individuals. Although we pretty much have to enter into contracts with individuals and companies where we are essentially their property.

If you doubt this, you only have to look at something like drug laws. And that's just one example. In all the time that pot was entirely illegal, you were forbidden to take the smoke of a burning plant into your own body. Which (by it's very nature) this law was telling you that the state considers your body to be it's property.

Many other examples are scattered all around. It's not really necessary to list them, is it? One example is enough to prove that your body does not belong to you as far as the state is concerned. And also you have to consider the fact that people had to wait for the government to say it's OK before they can use pot. So that is just furthering the basic fact that your body is state property. You can only do what they say you can do or they will punish you.

That's a little bit off-topic, I know. But it's necessary to establish the nature of the system we have in place. It is governed by a government that does not respect your sovereignty. And doesn't have to.

At any rate, we are not free. We're property and slavery is still the dominant system of the world. But more than that. It would seem that it is currently impossible to come up with any workable solution that wouldn't be slavery. And that goes to my pessimism about human beings and us being freaks of nature. IMO, we're probably out of tune with nature and cannot be any other way.

a reply to: DanDanDat

Well I can not stand this lady she is right tips as wages needs to stop . A tip is a gratuity for going above and beyond your regular duties. Businesses use this method of payment to basically get free labor. They expect their patrons to pay for their food and drink then turn around and pay for their employees too on top of that. Reason I do not go to ruby Tuesday anymore because they started adding a gratuity charge into bill last time I went there I took three people our meals and drinks came up to 44 dollars but when I got out of restaurant I noticed my bill was 65 dollars. They charged me over 20 dollars for gratuity on a 44 dollar bill that is nearly a 50 percent gratuity and this was after I put a 10 dollar bill on table.
As I previously stated tips are not meant to be a wage businesses using this form of pay are doing it to get around minimum wage laws and to get by without paying benifits.

a reply to: BrianFlanders

Really, then I guess you do not understand what REAL slavery is now do you? If you answer no to any of these questions, you are not a slave.

1. Are you being prevented from moving to anywhere you like to live?
2. Are your children held as collateral against you to force you to work for no pay?
3. Are you dependent upon one unchangeable source for your only supply of food and shelter?
4. If you refuse to work, are you whipped or burned as punishment (including your family)?
5. Have you been branded by a hot iron to show you are the property of another person?

Really, then I guess you do not understand what REAL slavery is now do you? If you answer yes to any of these questions, you are not a slave.

1. Are you free to start your own business and be your own boss?
2. Do you own your own property (not just a home, but actual personal possessions)?
3. Do you get a free education to high-school level?
4. Can you freely shop for your food from any store, anywhere?
5. Do you earn actual money, that you can use anywhere to buy anything you like?


I suggest you stop using the word slave until you understand what it REALLY means. Until then, you sound like an uneducated and self-entitled virtue signaling whiner.

a reply to: Bluntone22

Probably not.
I do not agree with tips as wages tho .

Tips are to be given for doing work above and beyond your usual required service.
Your wage is what Your Employer is supposed to pay you for doing your job.

Tips were originally left when people stayed at some ones house for the servants because they had to do extra work tending to guests that was not part of regular job.

FYI, the word tips is actually an acronym.
To
Insure
Prompt
Service

It is meant to reward exceptional service, not for just average service. That said, the established rates factor in the lower base wage. Any increase will actually result in a lower total wage for the servers since it will be added to the base bill. Servers will need to work even harder to make as much as they did before this grand plan was put in place.

All from people that don't work in these fields, and have no clue of the repercussions. Just, we want more money for doing the same job. Well, I could whine about that too, but that money will come from somewhere. Someone might lose their job for the business to comply....ooops...duh! Businesses with wait staff work at very low profit margins now. So, lets burden them more?

Ooops, they closed down because they could not make a measly profit anymore. More lost jobs.

Typical socialist agenda. Force people out of work so they become dependent upon the state for their lives.

a reply to: seagull

I hate tipping... Or more accurately the expectation of tipping. A tip should be something extra given for something extra received. I should not be responsible for paying the employees of a business. Make the food a bit more expensive and pay your people. They do not work for me. Maybe I have been in Europe too long? Here, in Germany, everyone gets a decent wage plus benefits. A tip is usually just rounding off - bill comes to €28.50 and I give them 30. There is not an expectation of 15% or more.
And the need to try to get tips leads to waiters being irritating/hovering. "Is everything okay? Can I get you anything?" #. I don't know yet. The food landed on the table 15 seconds ago. Go away and I will make a noise or hand gesture if I need something. Otherwise, leave me alone.

Of all the things AOC doesn't comprehend, apparently 'indentured servitude' is another one. Not that I'm the least surprised.

a reply to: proteus33



Absolutely. I don't tip if the service is below exceptional. If they think just showing up is worthy of a tip, I'll gladly disabuse them of that particular notion.

I don't get a bonus at work for just showing up, I have to earn it by going above and beyond what might be ordinarily expected of me.

a reply to: seagull

Are their tips really a "bonus"? If their salaries are well below even the debated current minimum wage doesn't just showing up command some amount of tip?

The only person that wouldn't just laugh at that and walk away laughing are double dipping knuckle heads like Cortez to take those jobs.

Average Salary today.

www.payscale.com...=Waiter%2FWaitress/Hourly_Rate

a reply to: DanDanDat

Should the customer volunteer to participate in the whole tipped employee scheme?

Yes, the tip is a bonus. Insomuch as a good performance gets you a tip. A bad performance gets you less of a tip.

a reply to: bigfatfurrytexan

Oh I would agree that the amount of the tip should reflect the level of service. But if I understood seagull correctly he doesn't consider tipping for service "below exceptional". That's a high bar, again if I am understanding correctly.

a reply to: DanDanDat

Irregardless of what they're being paid, and in this case it's no where near enough, a tip is, indeed, a bonus. Or should be. One shouldn't have to rely on tips to live on.

They should be a bonus. That in too many cases people are forced to live on tips is wrong, and that needs fixing.

I only say I tip for exemplary service. Not that I think being paid just over two bucks an hour is right...it's not.

The amount I tip is generally based upon how the service is, or how I feel it is... Great service gets a better tip than just OK service. Bad/Rude service won't get any tip.

I've tipped upwards of 50 percent of a bill--it was a hundred dollar plus bill, so it was a great tip--that's because the young man was an absolute beast at his job. He earned it, he got it. I've also done quite the opposite, too...

a reply to: OccamsRazor04

Friendly reminder the “family of 4” BS is a nonsense deflection..

I said minimum wage at a full time job will not pay for ONE person... just the one person working 40 hours in a crappy , usually manual laborish job...

The is no argument for allowing companies to pay adults less for a full time week than you can support that one employee on..


In a society that requires money that is indentured servitude.. especially when the companies set wages and lobby to keep down non wage.