The decline and eventual death of freemasonry...

You have much to learn about the "political structure" of masonry. Posted by Freemason

I would love to see your overview then.

There are...no "Cabal" and "Illuminati" in Masonry, and probably not even in existance anymore. Posted by Freemason

I disagree, but as I have posted extensively on it, I wont belabor it here. If you have conflicting evidence to the contrary, I would be interested in seeing it.

It is well established that by the end of the eighteenth century, the Illuminati had been effectively disbanded. Because of Freemasonry's inadvertent involvement and misuse by its founder, Adam Weishaupt, the legends of its continued existence (and influence) persist into the twentieth century. In the 1950s and 1960s, members of the John Birch Society made much of this 'shadow' organization, using it as an effective substitute for their anti-Semitism. Perhaps some of the confusion regarding the organization is due to the fact that over time, the word illuminati came to be used more expansively for many enthusiasts of Enlightenment, including but not limited to the followers of Emmanuel Swedenborg. Nevertheless, the Illuminati's connection with Freemasonry was date-specific (the late 1700s) and place-specific (what is now Germany); it had NO involvement in Freemasonry elsewhere despite fanciful claims. Even the oft-mentioned 'Proofs of A Conspiracy' written in 1797 by a Scottish professor notes that the Illuminati's brand of Freemasonry was NOT the same Freemasonry as found in England and from which all other legitimate Masonic lodges today can trace their ancestry.

www.masonicinfo.com...

An excellent illustration of my point. The evolution of the Freemasons is used as camoflage for the Illuminati, and it is further concealed by spreading the rumor of the Illuminatis demise in the late 1700s. Attention at that point shifts to the Freemasons, meanwhile the Illuminati continue business as usual underground.

Well it's kinda odd to claim that the Illuminati "runs the show" hiding behind masonry, when Masonry has banded together people of the world who are in positions to make change.

You really believe a top 1% of the wealthiest and most landed and best connected individuals have any real say in the world.

I point your attention to the United States...which contrary to limited perspectives, is not ran by some "unseen elite".

The very "governmental institution" of Freemasonry makes it impossible for any one group or person to control it.

Every Grand Lodge is its own entity.

To become a Grand Master you need only be a Master Mason.

The Current Grand Master of England (Duke of Kent), is a Master Mason and nothing more...so goodbye to the "34th degree" theory.

If Prince William should join masonry, which would seem very likely, he shall become England's new Grand Master.

In say here, Nevada, you run through the line, might take you 17-20 years in the Grand Lodge alone, but finally you'll gain your chance to become a GM, never having ever had to progress beyond the 3rd degree.

So there is by far an emense amount of limitations on the ability for some clandestine organization to partake in governing Freemasonry in any way.

As for the "Cabal" and what not, I find your evidence unsuitable to prove that there is an actual design or machination of some manipulation of world events to achieve a specified future.

You really believe a top 1% of the wealthiest and most landed and best connected individuals have any real say in the world.

Yes, money holds the ultimate power (next to God) over man. Everyone has a price.
How many poor people do you see running for office?
It takes loads of campaign money just to even consider winning an election.
Where does all this money come from?
campaign contributors

Originally posted by Fury
I would have to say, if the freemason's tried to take the country over outright, (using crack teams of shriners and other senior citizens) it would be pretty funny.

tanks vs. those little shriner cars.

On a serious note,
I would actually join the masons just to see what happens.



LOL....that is a heck of a picture....M1 vs Clown Mobile

Well here's a little secret Money doesn't hold power, it just makes things a lot easier.

It takes loads of campaign money just to even consider winning an election.

Most of which never comes from the running man's pockets. As you said so yourself.

So any charismatic person who is friendly and meets a lot of people, can be able to raise money and run for office.

That's why I believe fully that the impoverished people limit themselves by siding with the Liberals, who are more "heirarchal" than the Republicans.

Republicans run almost anyone into office (one of our senators was a veternairian...wow how qualified lol).

Democrats in my opinion however, support time put in, and the wealthier running mates.

I mean gosh Clinton...Gore...these are NOT poor people, and then Clinton had the gaul to run off with what an 800,000 dollar office after he left the white house?

If someone from say the ghetto would just simply start asking people for (1 buck a day to change our future), and cleaned himself up and got a suit...and looked like Illmatic's avatar of Malcom-X instead of some scraggly thief...they'd probably be able to take office too.

I firmly believe, the first man to go to debate and NOT flame the others...will win by a land slide.

Because people are so used to seeing them belittle eachother, that they'll notice the one who doesn't belittle his opponents, over the one that does.

And so it all boils down to the point:

Determination and articulation of the English language is what will win elections all the time.

Determination and articulation of the English language is what will win elections all the time

Then how in the hell did Bush win.

Well it's kinda odd to claim that the Illuminati "runs the show" hiding behind masonry, when Masonry has banded together people of the world who are in positions to make change. Posted by Freemason

Indeed, that is odd. What is odder still is that these same people HAVENT made change. Of course they would never dare to do so without permission from thier handlers in the Cabal.

Indeed, you have posted in the past that the Freemasons are NOT a shadow government. I agree with this, as the Freemasons serve a completely different purpose, that of ornamental figurehead combined with lightening rod to deflect attention and investigation from the Cabal.

First I address the post about Bush...Bush won because his opponent had 3 different personalities, and was obviously a moron when it came to presidential decisions.

Now to address IronDragon.

I did not mean Masonry has not changed the world, Freemasonry has had a drastic impact upon the world, even leading to the rise of the United States.

I merely mean that the people in Masonry are not changing anything...there's not some Grand Master of Masonry that decides when the world goes to war or such, or even decides a city's tax code...

Masonry itself changes the world by changing many of the people.

And promotes independant thinking. It would be hard for facist overlord dictators to hide amidst or above their ranks.

Originally posted by FreeMason

I did not mean Masonry has not changed the world, Freemasonry has had a drastic impact upon the world, even leading to the rise of the United States.

I would love to see some documentation on this...

I merely mean that the people in Masonry are not changing anything...there's not some Grand Master of Masonry that decides when the world goes to war or such, or even decides a city's tax code...

That kind of contradicts your first statement doesnt it? Besides, no the Masons dont make these decisions... the Cabal already has personnel in place for these functions. Remember, the Masons are just a figurehead to draw attention away from the Cabal.

Masonry itself changes the world by changing many of the people.

Yes, its called indoctrination, or on a more straightforward level, thought modification.

And promotes independant thinking. It would be hard for facist overlord dictators to hide amidst or above their ranks.

The most effective form of thought modification is to plant an idea in someones head, and make them believe it is THEIR idea... As I have mentioned, the Cabal are masters at psychology and social manipulation.

No nothing in my post is contradictory, just vague because it's a large subject.

First off, many of the Revolutionaries and almost all the Brittish officers from the Commander-in-Chief to Leftennants (is that spelt right lol?)...were masons.

GW was a mason especially as were his 33 generals below him.

GW wrote proudly of his belonging to the brotherhood in his letters and how it had shaped his life.

There are several good books, and many others that point out that Masonry had involvement in forming the USA...again it's not like the USA was specifically planned by Masonry, but many ideals of Masonry were carried through the men that made the nation and thus why it is profoundly impacted by it.

First off another such example is that The Britts gave Washington a full year to prepare his troops before they started going to battle...and Howe(?), a great tactitician made for some reason the stupid folly of attacking Bunker Hill like a bimbo, when he could have just isolated them. (This thought mostly as a slap in the face to his superiors for deciding to fight the colonists, whom he admired...not to mention he was also a Brother).

Temple and the Lodge is a good book that covers it in a nutshell.

I do not deny that there were in fact several masons in history... however, I would point out that they were NOT the architects of the world simply because they were masons... Any and all influence these people had on history and the development of the US was under orders, either implicit or explicit, from the Cabal.

First off another such example is that The Britts gave Washington a full year to prepare his troops before they started going to battle...and Howe(?), a great tactitician made for some reason the stupid folly of attacking Bunker Hill like a bimbo, when he could have just isolated them. (This thought mostly as a slap in the face to his superiors for deciding to fight the colonists, whom he admired...not to mention he was also a Brother). Posted by Freemason

A very good example indeed!

Strange that you should bring up the American Revolution, as that was probably the earliest and best example of the Cabal rearing its head in international politics.

The Cabal had been looking for a refuge from the combined governments of Europe for some time, and it was decided to make America the remote center for operations. Although the Cabal had a good deal of influence in most of the European governments, people came into and out of power, and if someone came to power who was not a member of the Cabal, they could easily cause problems for the Cabal, especially as they already had a reputation (the Illuminati). Therefore, they were interested in a base of operations from where they could operate with essential impunity.

In order to do this, they quietly helped to influence, finance, mold the American revolution. In the process, as they were already in the process of creating a more public, visible secret society to act as lightening rod for those who would seek out the Cabal, many Masons were put in place to take orders from the Cabal to begin gently grooming America to thier needs.

I was thinking about check out a local lodge. But one close to me doesnt give an exact adress. Kinda creepy....

Odd you keep mentioning the Cabal Dragonrider, as it's an unprovable probably forged idea spread by "Anti-masons" and dictators who want to destroy the establishments in the current world, and replace it with their own.

But that's besides the point.

Nothing can ever be said to be the only attributing factor to any event in history...such is with Masonry.

But many key events pertaining to the Civil Wars in England, the pro-parlimentary moves. The Stuart rebellions, the American Revolution, the Civil War and such...

All involve Masonry in one way or another.

And again...with America I think that Masons urged by their beliefs as masons, helped push America in the direction it was pushed...but with most other things it seems more to just be Masons who have their ideas, acting upon those ideas, and masonry guiding them a little if any...

Masonry being a medium to discuss things that you could otherwise not discuss...or rather, discuss things with people you would otherwise never be able to discuss with....

My grandfather was a mason, and Friday of next week I will kneel where Hiram knelt, The Freemasons are simply a brotherhood of men with like interests and goals in mind. They simply live a different life then the average Joe by following the teachings of Masonry. This society was not created to take over the world or anything of that nature it is just a group of good men trying to become better men by helping a neighbor, friend, or complete stranger.

I think freemasonry is dieing on it's feet purely because it's had it's day. People now see the cult, sorry- brotherhood as out of date, old fashioned and out of touch. I don't think the secrecy thing helps either.
I don't like freemasonry mainly because it hides it's true purpose. Members refuse to divulge the secrets they learn but refuse to accept that those above them may be hiding some nasty secrets from them. . . However, as much as I dislike them I have to acknowledge the fact that they do do a lot for charities and merely because of that fact it would be a shame to see interest in masonry completely die out.

I can definitely admit that within my little Lodge, there are only 2 members under the age of 30.

Many Masons abandon their Blue Lodges and provide their time exclusively in the Shrine, Scottish Rite, and/or York Rite. Many Masons will continue paying dues to their Blue Lodge, but rarely participate as active members.

(From my own personal observation of two Lodges over the past 7 months)

Originally posted by Mintwithahole.
I have to acknowledge the fact that they do do a lot for charities and merely because of that fact it would be a shame to see interest in masonry completely die out.

The Shriners just recently closed down one of their Shriners Hospitals in Galveston, TX because of financial qualms.

As you mentioned, regardless of one's opinions toward Freemasonry, this is a shame for lots of families that could have benefited from their cost-free, great medical services.

My home jurisdiction is actually experiencing a modest amount of growth. That's right -- Freemasonry in my Grand Jurisdiction is slightly larger this year than it was last. I think many younger men are looking for what Freemasonry has to offer, which is a place to meet good men and make sound friendships.

Of course, Dan Brown and National Treasure have helped.

Originally posted by MOFreemason
I can definitely admit that within my little Lodge, there are only 2 members under the age of 30.

I have mentioned this before but my lodge (and district) is experiencing a huge growth in applicants. My lodge currently has so many candidates that we have completely filled five classes which would take us into November. Any future applicants would not be initiated until next year or we may have to send them to another lodge.

The majority of them are younger then 30 and about half are still in college or recent graduates. I can not find a specific reason for this surge and I feel it may be a combination of factors.






[edit on 11-2-2009 by AugustusMasonicus]