Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

originally posted by: celltypespecific
a reply to: Baablacksheep

You are not allowed you say.

Eyes rolling again.

Lol I am serious... I was penalized by last time I did this... for those who were on this site earlier this morning they know what happened. I am not allowed to comment so I will leave the subject alone until after the interview.

Who told you you are not allowed to comment? I must of missed this in all the hoopla.

a reply to: The GUT

Its important every few posts like yours to remind the tribe here of the reality of the situation. One can easily go off track into the stratosphere of delusion on things like this.

It indeed is strange where you have a government-backed group pretending, it seems, to be enthusiastically encouraging this segment of the government to do more openly investigations in regards ufo events, while at the same time clearly being, still, a part of that government. Though, they deny it.

And to us, It’s clear that something is just not on the up and up, no matter how loud they say they’re not doing a psychological operation of any sort.

To me, it’s a classic psychological operation, though in real time it may appear they are getting some objective results, i.e. the navy statement about ufo reporting.

But looking at this scenario of TTSA it seems that they are basically an operation revolving around a propaganda effort to rile up some of the public ( maybe about ufos being on the attack)and some of the government to intensify ufo research in the government.

So, on its face, that seems to be a reasonable goal.

Here’s the problem. Put aside their dishonest provenance of TTSA's creation ably documented on this thread.
Put that away... And what we come up with is the fact that everything they’re striving for has already been done in some form or another, and they’re still studying the issue as Zondo went to his old buddies and had his little secret meeting we didn’t get to see. In other words, they have already had very in-depth studies on this issue and still are. So the only pertinent question boils down to the matter of degrees it should be studied. The resources applied. That's a whole discussion in itself that we don't have the ways and means to delve into at this time.

Notwithstanding the latter point, and all that being said prior to it, then basically what are they griping about? What’s the problem? Accordingly, they still have ATTIP. They have their good press. So, what else do they want? Some huge massively expensive, massively publicly known and monitored program of getting to the bottom of these ufo events?
The reason that won’t happen is already known by everybody. And the reason that it won’t get done is that they’ve already done it! And have come up Snake Eyes!

So, IMO, the government has already cried uncle: they don’t know nor do they have the capacity to know what the hell this phenomenon is all about!

We have to accept that uncertainty

originally posted by: 1ofthe9
www.ufojoe.net...

Roswell and 1952 Washington DC photos?! LOL

That's my first time to visit UFO JOE and I'm finding it a valuable resource for the simple fact that this guy has all kinds of transcripts and cut-to-the-chase snippets from long drawn out podcasts and is reporting some topics that I'm not seeing anywhere else. Some funny stuff too: Eric Davis dissing on Lazar on Knapp's Facebook for example.

I'm sure I see a lot of things differently than he does but I appreciate his deep dive. From all the stuff he's throwing up it looks like he's working his ass off.

That whole transcript of Elizondo in Italy to include the Q & A was worth reading imo. Some outlying pieces are slowly starting to come together for me.

Tanx, 1o9

originally posted by: Willtell

From here there’s nowhere for them to go. What can they report on next?

They are going full woo, Will. Look out Skinwalker Ranch here comes TTSA, a DIA guy, Reid and more. It ain't just about no UFOs. I repeat: Full. Woo.

I am making yet another apology if I'm totally retreading old ground for y'all but these transcripts are a gold mine. Or maybe that should be an unobtanium mine.

I do recall some of what George has said in the following link covered here but if you haven't read this I recommend it. Dayum he's butthurt...but he's also leaking more than he thinks he is.

AATIP, that we know about…the AATIP that studies nuts and bolts saucers…case of UFOs that have encounters with military units such as the USS Nimitz. That is studied by a group of people, Lue Elizondo was the head of it.

It’s not so much a program as it was a loose network of intelligence officials in different agencies, including the Air Force & the Navy, CIA, DIA, DARPA…there might be a couple of other agencies.But a case would come in from any one of their units and it would be shared with this group of people. Analysis would be done. Evidence would be looked at and then stashed in a draw and nobody ever sees it. It’s not passed up the chain of command.

In 2007, that changed. One of the guys I met with in this meeting in Washington is the one who changed it. He had been in the same position that Lue Elizondo had been in. And his name is just not out there. He grew frustrated with what was happening with the phenomenon and he suspected that UFOs flying around the sky, buzzing our military units every once in a while, is not the full story. Even if you could solve that part of the mystery it wouldn’t solve the bigger part of the picture.

So he grew interested in Skinwalker Ranch and he had read the (Knapp/Kelleher – “Hunt For The Skinwalker”) book. And after he read it, he called up Bob Bigelow and said…actually, he wrote him a letter and said, “Hey, can I go to the ranch…go look around? I’m with the DIA.” Bigelow says, “Come on out to Las Vegas and I’ll take you there.” And that’s what happened. He flew to Las Vegas. They flew on Bigelow’s jet. They went to the ranch. This guy’s not there fifteen minutes and he has an experience. And I’m not gonna go into detail. I’m hoping that he’s going to maybe come forward at some point and describe his experience. But it was just for him. Of all the people in this room, in the encounter, he was the only one who could see it. He’s the only one who had an angle on this thing that appeared. And he’s pretending that he’s not seeing it but it’s right out of the corner of his eye. And he doesn’t say anything until he leaves the ranch. And he gets off and he asks Bigelow if he had seen it. And he had not. The other people who had been in the room had not seen it.

He flies back to Las Vegas, goes back to Washington, D.C. and looks up Harry Reid and tells him about it. Now Reid had some experience in these matters that I’ll get into in a little bit. But as a result of that conversation, Reid, who had an interest in UFOs and had maintained that interest over many years – and I can attest to that personally – called in a couple of his friends in the Senate – Daniel Inouye and Ted Stevens. They had a conversation in a secure room and they decided to provide some funding for a much broader study. Something that looked at…beyond flying saucers, that looked at other paranormal aspects…supernatural aspects that we would not normally associate with aliens or ETs. Assuming that that’s what this is, which I’m not sure anyone knows for sure. And that is how AAWSAP was born. The Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Application program.

Transcript – George Knapp At UFO MegaCon: Over The Years, [The Pentagon] Has “Lied” About UFOs “And They’re Lying Now.”

a reply to: The GUT

well I’ll be damned

a reply to: The GUT

m.youtube.com...

originally posted by: 1point92AU

originally posted by: ManyMasks
a reply to: 1point92AU

I'm not arguing that was my point, one guy says UFO and the other guy says he can't identify what it is.
The guy who says he can't identify wins on my account because it is unidentified but it may not be an object and it may not be flying.

Ultimately.. who cares.

How many accounts are you logged in under right now?

You're Guest 101 and ManyMasks.

As Guest101 you are wrong in your assertion if I take my phone camera and film a flare that the flare will rotate while the background remains static.

As ManyMasks you are wrong about "arguing semantics" as my post was crystal clear and not open to interpretation.

At least your primary user name (ManyMasks) checks out.

Haha, no I’m not ManyMasks.
In fact I have been fighting a sceptic here on this forum much like you are fighting Mick West right now.

I used to think Rendlesham was THE CASE, the one case that would tip the balance in the UFO debate. My arguments against Ian Ridpath (the most notorious Rendlesham sceptic) were like yours against Fravor. ‘Surely a perfectly honest and honourable man like Jim Penniston can be trusted on his word!’

I studied the Rendlesham case for years which is why I joined the discussions here on this forum. But something always smelled fishy from the start. I knew it but kind of ignored it for a while: John Burroughs, the guy standing right next to Jim Penniston during the close encounter, only remembers lights seen briefly. Penniston, however, claims he was taking dozens of pictures of a landed craft. And these guys were not willing to discuss or resolve this huge inconsistency.

I learned a valuable lesson from Rendlesham: If something smells fishy, it probably is. The binary code scam finally exposed Penniston.

The only thing that will move the UFO investigation forward is one Good Case. A case with solid data that is out in the open to be studied by anyone. A case that can withstand a thorough analysis by good sceptics like Ian Ridpath and Mick West.
Remember that these people put a lot of effort in their investigations and uncover a lot of valuable information, including patents that show the internal workings of the ATFLIR. We need good sceptics to stay grounded. Though I may not agree with Mick’s view on UFO’s, I congratulate him with his astute analysis of the three TTSA videos.

I still think that Fravors testimony is compelling and was hoping the Nimitz tic-tac would turn out to be the Good Case, but without any solid data it does not fit the criteria.

False claims, woo, closed-minded believers and conspiracy thinkers will only push ufology to the fringes where no reputable scientist or journalist will dare to go.
Maybe that’s exactly what the ‘powers that be’ want to achieve, who knows? If that’s the case, their operation surely worked for me 😉

I’m still open to the idea that some UFO’s are extraterrestrial, and I am still waiting for that one Good Case.

TTSA, with its agenda to harvest a maximum amount of money to pursue their hobbies and feed their companies, will probably not be the source of such a case.

originally posted by: zazzafrazz
Skinwalker is no more weird than a bunch of other spooky places around the states (imo). Go the The Trans Allegheny Lunatic Asylum and then camp in the Appalachia between there, Point Pleasant (mothman) and Flatwoods and you'll see some weird shizz

Seems to me that there is a differentiation to be made between those who "experience" and those that are merely easily titillated into "seeing" things by visiting locations that they have an expectation of of being "spooky. It appears that post-event too, those whose brains find reward in the excitement of being "spooked" tend to be less reflective of the event and fail to question, or to engage in critical thinking to examine the event from any perspective that depletes the titillatory effect. It suggests, to me, that it is a question of brain function, in addition to a perceptory one. Research in these areas suggests that those in the "normal" range, or the majority in any given population, are those most susceptible to the suggestion-expectation-projection effect and that through selection that this did in fact provide the most useful framework for group survival as a cohesive society, it allowed us to share "visions" for the future, for example, or share a plan of action. It is this capacity that probably underlines the early successes of a wide variety of religious movements.

In short, what you call "weird" is probably just about average or "the norm" given the circumstances. If you engage some critical thinking you may gain the insight that you're less of a witch, personality wise, and more of one of the crowd calling for the witch to be burnt. A follower of concensus, which of course, renders you far from alone.

a reply to: The GUT

Sounds like it's Destination Woo Woo Land after reading that GUT. Especially someone who goes to Skinwalker Ranch and sees things no one else does. Is that furtive imagination, mental illness or this latest in ufotainment new deal packaged as enlightened "consciousness"? Making it effectively unfalsifiable.

I read another piece from a few years ago where this sort of thinking began to take root. It explains how America (and much of the Western World) went down this path.

I remember when fantastical beliefs went fully mainstream, in the 1970s. My irreligious mother bought and read The Secret Life of Plants, a big best seller arguing that plants were sentient and would “be the bridesmaids at a marriage of physics and metaphysics.”......

During the ’60s, large swaths of academia made a turn away from reason and rationalism as they’d been understood..... All approximations of truth, science as much as any fable or religion, are mere stories devised to serve people’s needs or interests. Reality itself is a purely social construction, a tableau of useful or wishful myths that members of a society or tribe have been persuaded to believe....

The borders between fiction and nonfiction are permeable, maybe nonexistent. The delusions of the insane, superstitions, and magical thinking? Any of those may be as legitimate as the supposed truths contrived by Western reason and science. The takeaway: Believe whatever you want, because pretty much everything is equally true and false.

...Michel Foucault published Madness and Civilization in America, echoing Laing’s skepticism of the concept of mental illness; by the 1970s, he was arguing that rationality itself is a coercive “regime of truth”—oppression by other means. Foucault’s suspicion of reason became deeply and widely embedded in American academia.

Essentially everything that became known as New Age was invented, developed, or popularized at the Esalen Institute. Esalen is a mother church of a new American religion

The Atlantic

The whole article is one long read, most will ignore, about how this "fantasy-industrial complex" was invented. A social commentary on everything you see, hear and read on and beyond this forum and why people think less and "feel" more about their own truth.

originally posted by: celltypespecific
a reply to: Willtell

Looks like I have been kicked out of the TTSA FAN CLUB ...

A hive mind describes a group mind in which the linked individuals have no identity or free will and are possessed / mind controlled as extensions of the hive mind. It is frequently associated with the concept of an entity that spreads among individuals and suppresses or subsumes their consciousness in the process of integrating them into its own collective consciousness. The concept of the group or hive mind is an intelligent version of real-life superorganisms such as an ant colony or beehive.

Group Mind

Sometimes you become like the thing you study most.

a reply to: mirageman

I guess you can look at this a few ways:

A. The Bigelow Boys really believe this guy from the DIA experienced something anomalous that they could not see and they want to study him and other people who have this so-called gift.

B. They don't believe he saw anything but they are going to use his imagined experience to garner funding for their research anyway.

C. They helped fake his anomalous experience through hallucinogenics, electronics, stagecraft, etc. in order to help secure funding.

D. None of this happened at all but they are still going to use the story to get funding.

a reply to: coursecatalog

a reply to: coursecatalog

Mustn't show disrespect to the golden goose, you know...

You are expected to dance around it, I believe, yapping excitedly.

It is forbidden to wonder too loudly about the flaking paint on the golden eggs...

a reply to: coursecatalog

Who pulled this team together?
Someone is the head of this club, it's not the Delonge man child.

Motives are different for the team, but it is was woo + $$$ + Psy op

eg)

TDL = Woo + UFOtainment

Mellon = $$$ See here quotes from the 'ol Baking cartel family member.

I was actually thinking how Mellon came in late to the game, he was looking for a way to get the outsourced contracts he mentions pre the 2016 election allocated from the IRAD budget "Independent Research and Development Activity".

He and Keane were with UFODATA just pre TTSA. Maybe he is the head and picked another group to emulate his Bigelow contractor model through. Not sure myself But the motives are different from each of them.

I'm watching last night's episode now before heading out for coffee with my hubs
who has felt very much like a UFOlogy widower the last month


The part that amused me is Mellon and Reid.
This episode starts with woo stories then becomes a blatant infomercial for IRAD budget allocation.


"Putin and Russian have it all"
"Others are far more advanced than our defense technology that have researched it"
"It's all being left on some giant server where someone can get it but no one is researching the data"

It's supporting his 2016 interview.

I think she should officially task NORAD with collection and analysis responsibility. Simultaneously, she should assign the Office of Science and Technology Policy the job of reviewing available evidence, coordinating with other countries and providing scientific assessments and recommendations.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Poor Tom he still thinks it's just woo.

originally posted by: coursecatalog

Exactly....the f'ed up big time with the Italian crap.......this scene truly exposed TTSA.....I am absolutely dumbfounded how in gods name did this make it pass the editing phase....this should have been deleted from the episode....
The Italians were literally playing them for fools....Do they really believe their fans are that stupid..... Ufos shooting lasers at a copter....??
I am going to tweet the above photo to the TTSA cult on Twitter...it completely encapsulates the travesty of episode 6.

And the few scenes with TDL....he seems absolutely brainwashed...he is out of his league.

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit

originally posted by: Sublant
I don't particularly like Fravor, but he is an expert on these matters and he experienced the tic-tac first hand.

Why don't you like him?

Can't really put my finger on it. Something about him just rubs me the wrong way.

Could be just the usual aviator arrogance, or something else

LOL.

originally posted by: coursecatalog

originally posted by: celltypespecific
a reply to: Willtell

Looks like I have been kicked out of the TTSA FAN CLUB ...

Yeah, cellty, go back to those stoopid boards where they teach you that deeper research and critical dissection is your friend.

originally posted by: mirageman

The Atlantic

The whole article is one long read, most will ignore, about how this "fantasy-industrial complex" was invented. A social commentary on everything you see, hear and read on and beyond this forum and why people think less and "feel" more about their own truth.

I'll definitely read it when I can sit down long enough today. Thanks for the link. I found myself surrounded by that world a while back and observed it pretty closely without diving headlong in. I gave it enough of chance to see if there was anything to it worth "keeping" and didn't find much that personally was.

For a couple of years I was on the board of a land trust for communal-style living and helped organize some pretty large events to include a multi-day gathering featuring James Redfield author of The Celestine Prophecy (an extremely neurotic cat) and did some video work with an interesting and bat-snip crazy "Mage" Richard Allan Miller---who actually does have MK-ULTRA credentials in a fairly direct way. They both held sway in that community but the power the last one had over his woo "audiences" amazed me as I could see right through him and didn't understand why they couldn't. He literally mesmerized them. "Peace, Love, & Light" goes out the window pretty quick in an intentional community--especially during a cold winter---btw.

While I did keep an open mind to the various and syncretic philosophies that make up the "new age" I was mostly just having some fun with these colorful folk and dating some cuties while I did so. My drum circle woo is strong.

I did experience a little of whatever "woo" is but in the long-run, whatever it is, whether "paranormal" as Knapp even called it himself or some Jungian derivative of our own consciousness it really didn't seem to leave any of my friends and associates with more depth and life-quality. Quite the opposite in many cases.

While Vallee and others consider themselves hermetics and magicians all the while distancing themselves and making fun of "new agers" that's what they really are themselves. I know I've probably insulted one or two folk here--folk I'm probably rather fond of-- but that's my own personal experience of it and I've been rather dumbfounded--even alarmed--to learn that our much of our intelligence community is literally infested with such philosophies and belief systems.

Having said all that--and regretting it already lol--I do believe that "consciousness" is worthy of study and deep contemplation. It's the weaponization of it that I find loathsome.