Here is what Happens in a Socialist Economy.

a reply to: ClovenSky

Stock markets are a form of gambling although the more experience you have the easier it gets to make money, you don't get taxed on your portfolio.

Secondly you want to invest in assets, you earn a passive income from those assets are are also not taxed, if you can you gain enough assets that can then generate enough income to cover your monthly expenses your wealthy.

Read rich dad poor dad for a better and in depth explanation, or there's a free audiobook on YouTube...

originally posted by: strongfp
...
Ideas have a beginning, but they don't really have an end to be honest, consistently evolving. I think social programs are the modern day variation of socialism.

"Social programs" are as socialist as "living in a society makes you socialist..." The two do not necessarily go together... Social programs are not socialist. The roads are not socialist. The police are not socialist. The firefighters are not socialist.

The idea of "taxes to pay for certain infrastructure" is not a socialist system, and it was not invented by socialists.

Taxes have been around since the bronze age... Kings were the first to introduce taxes. Such taxes were "forced" supposedly to protect the people and support the Kingdom. Were Kings "socialists"?... They were not.

Roman soldiers enforced the laws in ancient Rome, their salaries were paid by the coffers which were filled by the collected taxes. Were Roman soldiers( who were the ancient police or Rome) socialist? They were not.

The Romans built roads, and aqueducts throughout Europe with the money that was collected through taxes, were they socialist?... No...

However "progressive taxes" are indeed socialist. The U.S. has had "progressive taxes since 1913 thanks to democrats," and it has only caused problems since then. Democrats also gave all power to a small group of people who do not care about the rest of the population.

Sincere question;

Do we all agree that 2 of the fundamental pillars of capitalism are:

A) The ability to privately own goods and resources,
B) The ability to trade our services to acquire goods and/or resources.

Yes or no as absolute requirements of capitalism?

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

My apologies, not trying to be a complete contrarian here. Just trying to find a new path from this never ending circular argument between ISMs. I guess I would be upset if I came from a socialist hell hole to the beacon of freedom in the world (snicker) and end up finding out it is going in the exact same direction.

rage against the world

originally posted by: ClovenSky
...
rage against the world

So your idea is then to do nothing, let millions of people to starve to death, and allow the massive exodus to destabilize the infrastructure of neighboring nations.

Keep doing nothing.

Exposing the truth of socialism and communism, and banding with those who are also suffering because of socialism and communism is not "raging against the world." It is an attempt to stop the idiocy of socialism/communism to pollute the rest of the world.

a reply to: peck420

The fundamental requirement for capitalism to work is a competitive free market, we don't have that we have oligopoly, the corporations and governments have bastardized capitalism and morphed it into something very different.

a reply to: peck420

Fair enough. Are you saying classic socialism should be embraced?

Has anyone wondered why is it that socialists/communists always rage about "the capitalists meddling in other countries, yet they do not say the same about socialist/communist regimes who do the same thing?"

The left ALWAYS rages about the U.S. going to other countries. But never have I seen the left rage about communist dictatorship meddling in other countries, supporting socialist terrorists such as the FARC who murder and kidnap regular people, and have forced socialism/communism in other nations around the world...

When there is no one to stop socialism/communist nations from spreading these failed systems, you get what happened in Venezuela, and other Latin American countries which are finding out how bad socialism truly is.

Socialism/communism is like cancer, it keeps spreading around the world with the help of countries like China, North Korea, Cuba, etc, etc.

The left blames the U.S. for Vietnam, yet the left ignores the fact that China meddled in Vietnam first, and as they went there they had lists of people they had to execute who were "human right activists." Most of these people were regular people, including taxi drivers.

The left ignores time and again how socialist/communist regimes meddle in other nations like Cuba did with Angola and Colombia among others. Like China has done with Vietnam, North Korea, Tibet, Taiwan, etc, etc.

When other countries are subjugated to socialism/communism, like Venezuela, they become part of the system that tries to spread socialism/communism with lies and false promises.

originally posted by: ClovenSky
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

Just to throw this out there from 2016. Could there be a possibility that us and our controllers/oligarchs created the majority of suffering there?

US-Led Economic War, Not Socialism, Is Tearing Venezuela Apart

Starting in 2014, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia flooded the market with cheap oil. This is not a mere business decision, but a calculated move coordinated with U.S. and Israeli foreign policy goals. Despite not just losing money, but even falling deep into debt, the Saudi monarchy continues to expand its oil production apparatus. The result has been driving the price of oil down from $110 per barrel, to $28 in the early months of this year. The goal is to weaken these opponents of Wall Street, London, and Tel Aviv, whose economies are centered around oil and natural gas exports. And Venezuela is one of those countries. Saudi efforts to drive down oil prices have drastically reduced Venezuela’s state budget and led to enormous consequences for the Venezuelan economy.

Corruption is a big problem in Venezuela and many third-world countries. This was true prior to the Bolivarian process, as well as after Hugo Chavez launched his massive economic reforms. In situations of extreme poverty, people learn to take care of each other. People who work in government are almost expected to use their position to take care of their friends and family. Corruption is a big problem under any system, but it is much easier to tolerate in conditions of greater abundance. The problem has been magnified in Venezuela due to the drop in state revenue caused by the low oil prices and sabotage from food importers.

I am not arguing for socialism in any way. I just wonder if the ISMs are only a small part of why a society prospers or dies and the citizen's morals are a very big reason why a society prospers or dies. I can understand socialism corrupting the soul to the point where no one cares anymore. But to blame everything on the magic boogey man of socialism seems dishonest.

Socialism is destructive all on its own, but the late Antony Sutton explained that the NWO is a synthesis of the managed conflict of right and left Hegelian dialectic and therefore the NWO is neither right nor left. archive.org... AntonySutton-4_djvu.txt

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: peck420

The fundamental requirement for capitalism to work is a competitive free market, we don't have that we have oligopoly, the corporations and governments have bastardized capitalism and morphed it into something very different.

The fundamental requirement for socialism to work is to use the wealth from capitalist markets.

originally posted by: peck420
Sincere question;

Do we all agree that 2 of the fundamental pillars of capitalism are:

A) The ability to privately own goods and resources,
B) The ability to trade our services to acquire goods and/or resources.

Yes or no as absolute requirements of capitalism?

Yet you confuse "the right of individuals to own property" with "corporations owning infrastructure."

Corporations are not "one individual," but many individuals who aim at controlling certain products. Corporations attempt, some successfully, to centralize their power and have monopoly over certain products. Under socialism and communism centralization of power also occurs, and the "stated/government" has monopoly over all infrastructure.

Corporations, just like socialist and communist regimes, aim at having all the power and control. Corporations aim at destabilizing small businesses so the corporations keep having monopoly over certain products.

Look at Nestle for example. They are now aiming at controlling all water sources, which would dismantle the rights of people who own their own well, or have access to water cheap.

Many in the left also confuse corporation with small businesses, which is why socialism also aims at controlling small businesses and take away the private businesses of people to have it under state/government control.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: peck420

The fundamental requirement for capitalism to work is a competitive free market, we don't have that we have oligopoly, the corporations and governments have bastardized capitalism and morphed it into something very different.

The fundamental requirement for socialism to work is to use the wealth from capitalist markets.

I think you find socialism is what will prevail once the corporations have large enough monopolies to control both government and the financial markets and I suspect at the rate it's going it won't be long until that happens, a very select few will have complete control over the whole shebang, ironically it's government that needs to step in and make sure this doesn't happen .

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

You seem to be doing a lot of finger pointing...

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: peck420

The fundamental requirement for capitalism to work is a competitive free market, we don't have that we have oligopoly, the corporations and governments have bastardized capitalism and morphed it into something very different.

The fundamental requirement for socialism to work is to use the wealth from capitalist markets.

I think you find socialism is what will prevail once the corporations have large enough monopolies to control both government and the financial markets and I suspect at the rate it's going it won't be long until that happens, a very select few will have complete control over the whole shebang, ironically it's government that needs to step in and make sure this doesn't happen .

Are you serious? You think the government is going to step in and protect us from the big bad corporations? That was supposed to be the goal of Marxism, was it not? Marxists wanted to stop bourgeois merchants. However, they have no problem with government controlling all the means of production by nationalizing the segments of economy. Health, energy, transportation, etc. The people will not have any control. Didn't you know that fascism involves the marriage of socialist control with corporations? Antony Sutton said that fascism is cut from the same totalitarian cloth as socialism. They are of the same ideology and goals.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

That's why is stated it is ironic...

Can anyone tell me what's happening our current economy that's forcing people to take extreme political stances such as socialism being the answer?

Were talking tens of millions of people here so what's the root cause?

Anybody even care about maybe solving the actual problem rather than just telling people to accept slavery?

originally posted by: toysforadults
Can anyone tell me what's happening our current economy that's forcing people to take extreme political stances such as socialism being the answer?

Were talking tens of millions of people here so what's the root cause?

Anybody even care about maybe solving the actual problem rather than just telling people to accept slavery?

Some good questions Toys.... most people wouldn’t be able to handle the truth. They may handle some portions of it. The average person cannot fathom or comprehend the level of evil that is the root cause. I’ll give you some crumbs and you can connect the dots. Fallen ... secret societies ... Enoch .... Skull and Bones ... Judgement... Revelation ...Illuminati .... New World Order .... Armageddon
Those who are behind the NWO are the Princes of this World. They are referred to as Nephilim and the Watchers. This is spiritual warfare....
it has been said, “by their fruits ye shall know them”. Matthew 7:16

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Marxism wasn't a thing until communism adopted it as it's 'doctrine'.

What you are describing is Communism. Marxism is just the critique and predictions of capitalism and that it's failure is seeding within' itself.

I have seen markets like this first hand. It's was bad very bad. Fist thing I remember about these socialists supermarks as I call them is that most refrigerators if not all were turned off to save energy or were broken. The meat section was the worst. The market employees filled up the refrigerator bins with with water then put the meat cuts in the water. Flys and other bugs would float on top. Most shelfs were also bare. This was a big grocery store to about the size of the old Wal-Mart's . People in the city would shop there. This was store in Mexico in the late 90s .

Other places Around the world I've been were share the same ingredients of socialism . rationing of energy, money , health care , fuel and the food supply. Socialism has The same effects no matter what government implemented it. The food markets would all conserve power. No frozen meats etc. Very poor nutrition in the General population, high prices, high crime, health care if you could get it sucked. Something is always rationed. When and if you ever go to one of these countries ask were the locals shop , then go find a bag or box if plan to shop because stores don't have them either.

Socialism sucks I've seen it and lived it first hand. I was always so glad to return home to the USA.

a reply to: ElectricUniverse

capitalist charity! that makes me laugh

hahahaha , every charity in the west just makes money of the suffering of others
take a look at the expense scandals of some of the childrens charities in the UK and things like comic relief or such like

they basically skim off the top like the mafia !

Of course there are some good charities out there that do real charity work. Where as the majority are simply out to make a buck off the kindness and compassion of others.

not all socialist ideas are bad , such as the NHS which has saved many lives in the UK

I believe everything is about balance , so to balance out all that runaway capitalist pig wealth creation and hoarding
you need some socially orientated policies to keep that balance.

however under capitalism its likley we will kill ourselves off , the greed of a few generations of humanity deny the continued existence of the future generations because of wealth acquisition and hoarding.

Of course it doesnt help when for the last 50+ years the American government actively spent millions trying to convince everyone socialism was bad because of the cold war!