Brexit, Today is the Vote!

a reply to: andy06shake

I wonder who should take our penalties? I can't stop thinking about Waddle's epic miss:

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: Freeborn

You are not alone I too have lost the plot. I thought that article 50 meant we automatically left on the 29th regardless of any MP's vote unless it is extended or scrapped by law. I just don't know anymore.

That seems to be the consensus of most on the thread, but have I been asleep

somewhere as the referendum vote was to leave or remain, When did this

*Deal* rear its head?? Because surely the *deal* is thrashed out after we have

left.

a reply to: oldcarpy

Gazza should negotiate the Brexit extension.

He could bring a pizza and a 6 pack.

And it would all be sorted in no time sharpish.

Rusty on the Constitution, is it two strikes or three until the same Bill can't be brought before Parliament until it closes and a new session is opened?

At the moment we have a Parliament in total crisis with both Corbyn and May facing major opposition amongst their own Parties, both main Parties are in a complete shambles and don't seem to know what's going on or where they stand. It's been two years and with 10 days to go before the planned leave date no clear plan or legislation can be passed.

It seems we're in a stalemate unless May calls for the Queen to end Parliament early, an extension is agreed, Labour and Conservatives hold Leadership elections and a new Parliamentary session is opened.

Have people put in plans for any medications they're on? Spoken to my GP, Pharmacist and a couple of mates who are high up in Pharma and their consensus is there shouldn't be a problem but they've received no advice from Government apart from not to stockpile and tell patients not to get more than a months dose ahead of crucial meds to avoid any false shortage caused by panic buying.

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: oldcarpy

Gazza should negotiate the Brexit extension.

He could bring a pizza and a 6 pack.

And it would all be sorted in no time sharpish.

With a shotgun to the

a reply to: andy06shake

Razor Ruddock?

originally posted by: eletheia

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: Freeborn

You are not alone I too have lost the plot. I thought that article 50 meant we automatically left on the 29th regardless of any MP's vote unless it is extended or scrapped by law. I just don't know anymore.

That seems to be the consensus of most on the thread, but have I been asleep

somewhere as the referendum vote was to leave or remain, When did this

*Deal* rear its head?? Because surely the *deal* is thrashed out after we have

left.

Leaving without a deal would not have been a good idea, because whilst anything subsequent was being negotiated the UK would have instantly crashed out of the customs union and the single market. The latter alone would be economic suicide. The former would mean an instant hard border in Northern Ireland, something that absolutely no-one (bar some lunatics in the DUP probably) wants.
A hard border in NI violates the Good Friday Agreement. It's that damn simple.
This is what enrages me. The die-hard Leavers said that leaving the EU would be easy. That was a lie on a cosmic scale. If we leave without a deal the Pound will dive yet again and the business community will panic. And that is not an exaggeration.

a reply to: oldcarpy

Or big Terry.



Send in the Butcher.

Sorted.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

But we have heard all this doom before and yet:

BBC: UK Employment At Highest Since 1971

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: oldcarpy

It's got me beat; even if they are 'permitted' to do so how can MP's possibly consider voting for a deal they've already rejected twice?

The few die hard Brexiteers are most afraid of remaining, and the remainers

have managed to vote to take *No deal* off the table. That leaves only two

choices (1) T.M's cr4ppy deal (which leaves us rule takers and not rule makers)

and (2) REMAIN. Thats why the hard brexiteers were prepared to hold their

noses and vote T.M's deal

And it seems we are in agreement that we've previously been led to believe that if no deal had been agreed by 11pm March 29th then we automatically leave without a deal.
That doesn't mean we can't still negotiate a deal after leaving, does it?

You would think so...... but as I have previously said T.M is an EU puppet and

their stratergy from what I have seen is to keep us in limbo for a long time and

then the EU's fall back ploy a second referendum

Or how long an extension has May sought?

She is apparently only after a short extension, But I think its Tusk who is rubbing

his hands and suggesting up to two years

Satire:

originally posted by: bastion


It seems we're in a stalemate unless May calls for the Queen to end Parliament early, an extension is agreed, Labour and Conservatives hold Leadership elections and a new Parliamentary session is opened.

Let the mandarins run the show for a bit? Ala Cambodia (1yr) and Belgium (18mths), with no elected government? Would it work? Would the mandarins take more liberties than they already do?

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Deal or no deal, in or out, the asset strippers are waiting in the wings and whatever happens, for the foreseeable future, the UK is screwed.

And all because govt is incompetent, have cak in their ears and think they exist to tell us what to do.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

But we have heard all this doom before and yet:

BBC: UK Employment At Highest Since 1971

Those stats are propaganda and an outright lie. The system as it now stands counts someone on zero hours contract and in paid work for x1 day a fortnight as employed and for statistical purposes, no longer a claimant.

a reply to: AngryCymraeg


When??? who knows??? we leave there is supposed to be a two year period

for extricating out of the legal and other EU ties, companies will have contracts

for goods or whatever and any company worth its salt would have been planning

ahead.

I think its 2021 when the EU is doing its budget for the 5/7 years ahead and I think

they are hoping to give us that extra time to hopefully (for them) force that second

referendum they (the EU) is so fond of.


From what I have seen the UK is better placed than the EU. Italy is officially in

recession an Germany is on the brink, and look at the state of France and Macron.

I could go on ...... the EU is not in a good place they are whistling in the wind.

I am against Brexit because I think that the average Brit is going to have lower standard of living and a tougher existence outside of the EU than in it. Outside of the EU the UK will be rule makers, but the rules they make will make life tougher for the average Brit. The proof of this is the way that May's government was forced to accede to MPs' requests that UK labour laws conform to those of the EU in exchange for support for her deal. Left to itself a Tory government would lowball UK working people and cut social services wherever possible.

It's called austerity. Austerity is the elite's stance with regard to the rest of society. Their attitude to themselves is tax havens, anything to get out of actually supporting the society that made them rich.

Brexit, to me, is like the Arab Spring or the MAGA movement in the United States. It is fraudulent populism being steered by the hidden hands of the elite. The intention of these movements is to benefit the elite establishment while using the lower classes as dupes to achieve that benefit.

Populism is the tool of autocracy. All the great dictators used it if they weren't already using brute military force. Populism leads to brute military force. Trump is already bragging that the 'tough people' are his supporters and if pushed, they could get rough. Hitler had tough people too, street fighters to beat the opposition physically and drive them out of politics.

We may get there yet in the UK, with the big demonstrations planned for the end of March.

Those who don't want to be "rule takers", I mean the serious ones for whom EU rules are a problem, don't want to have their tax avoidance in the UK interfered with. That is who is really behind Brexit.

a reply to: ipsedixit

They should let the weans vote if there is another referendum this time around.

After all it's there future about to be quite possibly flushed down the toilet.

Not ours.

a reply to: andy06shake

That is true. The demographics for a second referendum would be slightly different anyway. Two more years worth of voters would be added to the rolls and two years worth of the deceased would be subtracted from the rolls. I don't know if it would be a significant difference but it might be.

If there is a second referendum, I hope that the result, one way or the other, is clearly decisive. That way sour grapes could be kept to a manageable level (I hope).

a reply to: ipsedixit

Austerity was the result of the last Labour govt near bankrupting the country.

a reply to: oldcarpy

I really don't think so. The people who are bankrupting the country and who are making the budget such a heart rending annual torture session are the people who made Britain the world leaders in tax havens and government assisted tax avoidance.

You sound like you believe in politics as it is practiced in the US and the UK, that is oligarchical bought and paid for representation of the elite by and for the elite.

Tax avoidance can be curbed by transparency with regard to offshore money and "trusts". Take a look at the YouTube video The Spider's Web: Britain's Second Empire.

originally posted by: oldcarpy
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

But we have heard all this doom before and yet:

BBC: UK Employment At Highest Since 1971

Yes, and how many of those new jobs are at a living wage or are worth it over the long term? Food bank usage is rising, as is credit card debt. May can talk all she likes about the employment figures, but people are hurting out there.

a reply to: oldcarpy

And yet we seem to have had plenty of monies to participate in Gulf war 1 and 2 back then.

Austerity is a tool, belonging to the bankers and super-rich.

Don't matter who is in power or wielding it under whichever banner because one side always wins, and its the same side.