A toast to those that deny reality and insult those that don't

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: Wide-Eyes

And what party did I switch to exactly by pointing out that people did wipe out the phones and people did defend trump after he said he gave a 10% raise? What partisanship is that exactly?

Goal post about to be moved..✔

you are off topic. perhaps you could start another thread.

a reply to: JinMI


you haven't even watched the video of him bragging about "his" 10 pay raise. hilarious.



op, your thoughts on trump and his 10% pay raise? considering this is a post on denying reality i'd REALLY love your thoughts.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: odzeandennz

Look, it's simple. Show me where he is talking about wages. It may be in the vid, and I will watch it soon. Busy watching Grambler ramble about the OP subject matter atm.

"We just approved $700 billion for our military," Trump said. "So we’re going to be having the best equipment ever known. And next year, $716 billion. So I wanted to let you know. And, by the way — I know you don’t care about this — but that also includes raises for our military. First time in 10 years."

www.politifact.com...

Now this quote would certainly back up your claim. Would also answer my question.

full transcript from white house website

Does anybody here — is anybody here willing to give up the big pay raise you just got?  Raise your hands, please.  Ah, I don’t see too many hands.  Okay, don’t give it up.

It’s great.  You know what?  Nobody deserves it more.  You haven’t gotten one in more than 10 years — more than 10 years.  And we got you a big one.  I got you a big one.  I got you a big one.  (Applause.)



They had plenty of people that came up.  They said, “You know, we could make it smaller.  We could make it 3 percent.  We could make it 2 percent.  We could make it 4 percent.”  I said, “No.  Make it 10 percent.  Make it more than 10 percent.”  Because it’s been a long time.  It’s been more than 10 years.  It’s been more than 10 years.  That’s a long time.  And, you know, you really put yourselves out there, and you put your lives out there.  So congratulations.

This is the hoopla Grambler is talking about exactly, albeit "the left" does the same thing with the Muller investigation.

originally posted by: olaru12
This is like "fake news" if you don't agree with it.....it's fake.

no, actually it's not. Fake news is lies in the media. The OP is about seeing facts, knowing they exist, then arguing that they aren't really there, and you are stupid for posting them. A nice example was given, a thread was linked. And even with his spelling mistakes, the OP was understandable.

your speelnig errors don't effect me, nor do my grammar errors.

a reply to: odzeandennz

Are you claiming that I am partaking in the issue raised in the OP?

I went back and read my position, and it is one of uncertainty. In fact, I asked questions because I can see the two issues which were being spoken of, could be construed.

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: Wide-Eyes

And what party did I switch to exactly by pointing out that people did wipe out the phones and people did defend trump after he said he gave a 10% raise? What partisanship is that exactly?

Goal post about to be moved..✔

you are off topic. perhaps you could start another thread.

No. I was making the point that the same mentality was rampant recently in a speech by trump in contrast with the same rampant mentality of denial with the Muller investigation.

And I was accused of partisanship by Ad Hom. And disproved him.

How is it off topic, that's the exact discussion.

And to make clear, this is the definitive I was looking for:

We’re fighting every day to ensure you have also the tools, the equipment, the training, and resources that you need to fight and to win

Which means he was in fact talking about their pay, which would be a lie according to the statistics at Politifact.

Groupthink induces a self-deception so perverse that partisan subjects literally get high off each act of denial as they constantly "twirl the cognitive kaleidoscope until they get the conclusions they want".

And that's science:

This surety is called the confirmation bias, whereby we seek and find confirmatory evidence in support of already existing beliefs and ignore or reinterpret disconfirmatory evidence. Now a functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) study shows where in the brain the confirmation bias arises and how it is unconscious and driven by emotions. Psychologist Drew Westen led the study, conducted at Emory University, and the team presented the results at the 2006 annual conference of the Society for Personality and Social Psychology.

During the run-up to the 2004 presidential election, while undergoing an fMRI bran scan, 30 men--half self-described as "strong" Republicans and half as "strong" Democrats--were tasked with assessing statements by both George W. Bush and John Kerry in which the candidates clearly contradicted themselves. Not surprisingly, in their assessments Republican subjects were as critical of Kerry as Democratic subjects were of Bush, yet both let their own candidate off the hook.

The neuroimaging results, however, revealed that the part of the brain most associated with reasoning--the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex--was quiescent. Most active were the orbital frontal cortex, which is involved in the processing of emotions; the anterior cingulate, which is associated with conflict resolution; the posterior cingulate, which is concerned with making judgments about moral accountability; and--once subjects had arrived at a conclusion that made them emotionally comfortable--the ventral striatum, which is related to reward and pleasure.

"We did not see any increased activation of the parts of the brain normally engaged during reasoning," Westen is quoted as saying in an Emory University press release. "What we saw instead was a network of emotion circuits lighting up, including circuits hypothesized to be involved in regulating emotion, and circuits known to be involved in resolving conflicts." Interestingly, neural circuits engaged in rewarding selective behaviors were activated. "Essentially, it appears as if partisans twirl the cognitive kaleidoscope until they get the conclusions they want, and then they get massively reinforced for it, with the elimination of negative emotional states and activation of positive ones," Westen said.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: odzeandennz

Are you claiming that I am partaking in the issue raised in the OP?

I went back and read my position, and it is one of uncertainty. In fact, I asked questions because I can see the two issues which were being spoken of, could be construed.

I simply refuted when you said that maybe there was confusion as if to say trump meant "budget raise of 10%"

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: odzeandennz

So was there definitive proof either way that the 10% was indicative to wages or the budget?

And I gave the very transcript from the white house itself where he said their wages got a 10% raise, and that they hadn't gotten one in 10 years.


And your reply, despite showing you did exactly what the op insinuates, you still allude to the fact that there may have been a misunderstanding and that trump meant the overall budget.

But per the video and transcripts, he said wages. Yet explanation is still necessary.

If the OP isnt about this very thing, then it isnt at all.

originally posted by: JinMI
And to make clear, this is the definitive I was looking for:

We’re fighting every day to ensure you have also the tools, the equipment, the training, and resources that you need to fight and to win

Which means he was in fact talking about their pay, which would be a lie according to the statistics at Politifact.

You cant be serious...

Does anybody here — is anybody here willing to give up the big pay raise you just got?  Raise your hands, please.  Ah, I don’t see too many hands.  Okay, don’t give it up. 

It’s great.  You know what?  Nobody deserves it more.  You haven’t gotten one in more than 10 years — more than 10 years.  And we got you a big one.  I got you a big one.  I got you a big one.  (Applause.) 



They had plenty of people that came up.  They said, “You know, we could make it smaller.  We could make it 3 percent.  We could make it 2 percent.  We could make it 4 percent.”  I said, “No.  Make it 10 percent.  Make it more than 10 percent.”  Because it’s been a long time.  It’s been more than 10 years.  It’s been more than 10 years.  That’s a long time.  And, you know, you really put yourselves out there, and you put your lives out there.  So congratulations

a reply to: odzeandennz

And your reply, despite showing you did exactly what the op insinuates, you still allude to the fact that there may have been a misunderstanding and that trump meant the overall budget.

Based on what I've seen, that is what it looked like, even your snipped quote. Above, I showed the definitive, even if you already knew, none of his brief speech tied the two together. The "also" remark does.

Also, thanks for the transcript.

originally posted by: odzeandennz

originally posted by: network dude

originally posted by: odzeandennz
a reply to: Wide-Eyes

And what party did I switch to exactly by pointing out that people did wipe out the phones and people did defend trump after he said he gave a 10% raise? What partisanship is that exactly?

Goal post about to be moved..✔

you are off topic. perhaps you could start another thread.

No. I was making the point that the same mentality was rampant recently in a speech by trump in contrast with the same rampant mentality of denial with the Muller investigation.

And I was accused of partisanship by Ad Hom. And disproved him.

How is it off topic, that's the exact discussion.

you seemed to want to rehash your thread. I guess it's along the lines of this topic. Since it's here,

No. You have the right thought process now going, for the first time in a long time. (Laughter and applause.) Thank you. We want to fight where it’s meaningful, which is basically what you’re just saying. And you understand that better than anybody. The people in this room understand that better. Your general understands it. I just met with them. Your general understands it. We want to fight for the meaningful things. No force in history has done more for the cause of justice and peace. I want each and every one of you to know that we will always protect those who protect us. You protect us. We are always going to protect you. And you just saw that because you just got one of the biggest pay raises you’ve ever received — unless you don’t want it. (Applause.) Does anybody here — is anybody here willing to give up the big pay raise you just got? Raise your hands, please. Ah, I don’t see too many hands. Okay, don’t give it up. It’s great. You know what? Nobody deserves it more. You haven’t gotten one in more than 10 years — more than 10 years. And we got you a big one. I got you a big one. I got you a big one. (Applause.) They had plenty of people that came up. They said, “You know, we could make it smaller. We could make it 3 percent. We could make it 2 percent. We could make it 4 percent.” I said, “No. Make it 10 percent. Make it more than 10 percent.” Because it’s been a long time. It’s been more than 10 years. It’s been more than 10 years. That’s a long time. And, you know, you really put yourselves out there, and you put your lives out there. So congratulations.

that is the part where he talks about the 10%. As I said in your thread, if he told the troops they were getting a 10% raise and they only got 2.6%, that would be a lie, it would be wrong, it would upset me, and it would make Trump a fool. I tried to find it, I even asked, and had some pinhead give me # for asking, but still don't see where he said those words. I will admit that his speech here was confusing, and I don't know what he was getting at by linking the military budget and soldier pay. They aren't the same things. So I'm not able to be angry at him for lying. Yes, he did lie about their previous raises, no argument there. But if that's the crux of your anger, I guess that's a good thing. it's an insignificant lie, nobody was hurt. (btw, Trump lies a lot, if that made you angry, you may want to get a puppy to hold, I think he may do it again)

If he said "you are all getting a 10% raise in you pay", then it would be very, very wrong, unless they got 10%.

a reply to: Grambler

It is just nuts. And what can you do? I am not a big Trump supporter but ... fair is fair. If the facts say one set of phones was wiped and stuff was recovered off the other then that's what happened.

I think it stems from unwillingness to accept that Trump is president at all.

I didn't like Obama, but I accepted that he was going to be in office for at least four years. If you cannot accept that much, then everything you do operates off the premise that Trump will be ousted some way, somehow. And yeah, there were people who were that far gone in their dislike on Obama - birthers for one group, but while I was willing to look at that one, I never thought it seriously would have any legs ... but then, I accepted that Obama was in office for his term. to begin with.

a reply to: Grambler

I think some people are so invested in their own narrative that they literally are able to deny reality when it conflicts with it.

The depth of peoples double think is terrifying, it's like we're living in diverging realities.

a reply to: network dude

The very next sentence of the transcript:

We’re fighting every day to ensure you have also the tools, the equipment, the training, and resources that you need to fight and to win

Which would certainly indicate budget. I'm fairly certain that would point toward his initial comments being on pay. How he reached the 10% figure is beyond me.

a reply to: odzeandennz

I conceded to your point by reading the transcript.

As I said, from your provided quote and the video, they are not clear. They do point and you could draw a reasonable conclusion, but they weren't definitive in my estimation.

a reply to: JinMI

Ok. Youre right, you win. 😊

a reply to: network dude

When he said make it 10% , what do you think he was talking about? Which is right before he said if anybody objects to the big PAY raise they just got? And said people said to only make it 3 or 2 % , then says he said to make it 10% or more.

And per the DoD, the troops are slated to receive a 2.6% raise which is .2% more than their last 2.4% raise.

After this I also give up.

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: network dude

The very next sentence of the transcript:

We’re fighting every day to ensure you have also the tools, the equipment, the training, and resources that you need to fight and to win

Which would certainly indicate budget. I'm fairly certain that would point toward his initial comments being on pay. How he reached the 10% figure is beyond me.

Only math could reach the 10% figure.

"On March 16, 2017 President Trump submitted his request to Congress for $639 billion in military spending—$54 billion—which represents a 10 percent increase—for FY 2018 as well as $30 billion for FY2017 which ends in September. With a total federal budget of $3.9 trillion for FY2018, the increase in military spending would result in deep cuts to many other federal agencies and domestic programs, as well as the State Department.[33][33][34][35][36][35] Trump had pledged to "rebuild" the military as part of his 2016 Presidential campaign.[37]"

en.wikipedia.org...

I had a personal experience with my dad in the 70's that left me very impressed with his honesty and values.
My dad has always been conservative. He really admired President Nixon. In fact, he was summoned to the Whitehouse by Nixon's Vice President, Spiro Agnew, for a meeting with Spiro, and Earl Butz, who was Secretary if Agriculture.

I could see that it bothered him when Nixon was caught in the Watergate scandal, and me being the ass that I am, I confronted my dad and said "well, what do you think of him now?"

Without any hesitation, he replied "Nixon is a crook". He refused to defend him. I try and behave the same, partially because of that. When I realize that I was wrong about something or someone, I will tell that person, " You were right, and I stand corrected". Life lesson.

He will be 92 in three days, and he still always tells me the truth, even when it is uncomfortable. I admire that behavior.