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Study finds no increase in violence in states that adopt more lenient concealed carry laws

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posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 06:36 PM
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Journal of the American College of Surgeons


This study demonstrated no statistically significant association between the liberalization of state level firearm carry legislation over the last 30 years and the rates of homicides or other violent crime. Policy efforts aimed at injury prevention and the reduction of firearm-related violence should likely investigate other targets for potential intervention.


This is really gonna piss some people off. This is just further evidence that allowing people to concealed carry doesn't increase violence. Concealed carry licensees have a history of being extremely law-abiding. Despite media portrayals of gun owners as a bunch of wackos, there's simply no data to support this. The majority of gun deaths in the US are suicides, and our gun crime problem is largely driven by repeat offenders. So this study comes as no surprise to me. We are not the problem. The soft-on-crime approach in the cities is the problem.
edit on 9 12 18 by face23785 because: (no reason given)




posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 06:40 PM
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I'm from Britain and this doesn't surprise me.
Anyone with a concealed carry permit is likely to be someone who followed a process to get it.
Not just some nut at a gunfair who paid a few hundred bucks and hid their gun in their coat.



posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 07:27 PM
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originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
I'm from Britain and this doesn't surprise me.
Anyone with a concealed carry permit is likely to be someone who followed a process to get it.
Not just some nut at a gunfair who paid a few hundred bucks and hid their gun in their coat.


In my state you don't need a concealed carry permit outside of a city and open carry is legal pretty much everywhere without a permit.

Our statistics are slightly skewed though because 85% of gun violence here is suicides...

I blame the winters.




posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 07:29 PM
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Making guns illegal would stop people from getting them.

We should try that with Meth and heroin.



posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 07:35 PM
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originally posted by: notsure1
Making guns illegal would stop people from getting them.

We should try that with Meth and heroin.


Or just go to the end game and make murder illegal.




posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 07:37 PM
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a reply to: Lumenari

Bloody'ell 85% is high but I guess people choose the easiest method, probably overdose in the UK although I haven't Googled it.



posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 07:39 PM
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yes but.

Gun control isn't about reducing crime, or even reducing exposure to hazardous amounts of lead.

Gun control is never about guns. It is always about control.



posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 07:45 PM
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I grew up in an age where there were guns hanging in a rack in the back window of pickup trucks in the parking lot of my high school. Never a mass shooting and not even a shooting even when there was a fight in the parking lot after school. They duked it out in the parking lot using fists.

Most law abiding citizens that own guns are never a threat unless threatened. Plus the law abiding citizen understands what the consequences could be before shooting a human. 2A people are not the wild west. We like peace and quiet, like most people.

I don't own a gun, but I may have a wireless handheld device peacekeeper or two or....



posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 07:46 PM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy


its an incredibly high number... like 32k gun deaths 28k will be suicide, its one of the main reasons many gun owners say we need to improve mental health care in the states.



posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 07:51 PM
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a reply to: CornishCeltGuy In USA, when we go to a "gun fair" (we call them gun shows here). They definitely do background checks. I know. Can't even buy a gun online and have it shipped to your house. Have to go through a background check and an approved dealer. So, the problem here is with crazy people getting guns illegally will ill intentions.



posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 07:58 PM
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Liberals will never let facts get in the way. Those of us who own guns and (gasp) legally carry them are a direct impairment to installing their globalist agenda. The US is one of very few countries left where invaders won’t (at least for now) be able to roll over the civilian population if the military/police fail to turn back those invaders.

Wonder how the AMA feels about this report since they’ve been battling the NRA over Twitter the last month or two, and this report is in one of their premier publications?



posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 08:09 PM
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That is because legal gun owners don’t commit crimes. Criminals are the ones that break laws. This isn’t surprising at all.


edit on 2018/12/9 by Metallicus because: Can’t spell



posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 08:25 PM
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originally posted by: du Pelican Blanc
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy In USA, when we go to a "gun fair" (we call them gun shows here). They definitely do background checks. I know. Can't even buy a gun online and have it shipped to your house. Have to go through a background check and an approved dealer. So, the problem here is with crazy people getting guns illegally will ill intentions.



Precisely. The "gun show loophole" is largely a myth. Most sellers at gun shows run background checks. And criminals don't get their guns at gun shows. People at gun shows ask a lot of questions. That's what we go there for, to talk about guns. We get suspicious of shady people really fast. Gun shows are full of cops and ex cops too. It's not an ideal place for a criminal, and statistics show a very tiny percentage of guns used in crimes can be traced to gun shows. The most common method for criminals to get their guns is through straw purchases, which are already illegal.

But, sadly, as has already been stated, the gun control "debate" is rarely about facts.
edit on 9 12 18 by face23785 because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 08:45 PM
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originally posted by: du Pelican Blanc
a reply to: CornishCeltGuy In USA, when we go to a "gun fair" (we call them gun shows here). They definitely do background checks. I know. Can't even buy a gun online and have it shipped to your house. Have to go through a background check and an approved dealer. So, the problem here is with crazy people getting guns illegally will ill intentions.



I've been to a gun show many times where I just buy from the person with the gun over their shoulder with a price tag on it.

No background check there... bought a sweet 1958 Savage lever action 308 that way. (I like the older Savages before they turned into crap.)

The last 5 guns I have purchased have been through Facebook local buy and sell pages... I meet them at the parking lot of the local gas station and give them cash.

None of what I just said is illegal.

Just sayin...



posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 08:51 PM
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a reply to: face23785

This is really gonna piss some people off. This is just further evidence that allowing people to concealed carry doesn't increase violence.
You seem to have missed the point of that paragraph. Read it again or better yet, this part:


During the study period, all states moved to adopt some form of concealed-carry legislation, with a trend toward less restrictive legislation. After adjusting for state and year, there was no significant association between shifts from restrictive to nonrestrictive carry legislation on violent crime and public health indicators. Adjusting further for poverty and unemployment did not significantly influence the results.


Easier access to concealed carry showed no reduction in violent crime. That would seem to conflict with some claims, that it acts as a deterrent.

edit on 12/9/2018 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 08:57 PM
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originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: face23785

This is really gonna piss some people off. This is just further evidence that allowing people to concealed carry doesn't increase violence.
You seem to have missed the point of that paragraph. Read it again or better yet, this part:


During the study period, all states moved to adopt some form of concealed-carry legislation, with a trend toward less restrictive legislation. After adjusting for state and year, there was no significant association between shifts from restrictive to nonrestrictive carry legislation on violent crime and public health indicators. Adjusting further for poverty and unemployment did not significantly influence the results.


Easier access to concealed carry showed no reduction in violent crime. That would seem to conflict with some claims, that it acts as a deterrent.


Perhaps you should read it without your personal slant as well.


After adjusting for state and year, there was no significant association between shifts from restrictive to nonrestrictive carry legislation on violent crime and public health indicators. Adjusting further for poverty and unemployment did not significantly influence the results.


Easier access to concealed carry also showed no addition to violent crime.

Perhaps what you could take from this is that laws on concealed carry, be they more restrictive or less, did not change anything.

Let me help you... laws didn't change anything.

Which was the whole point of the OP.




posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 09:02 PM
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a reply to: Lumenari

I'm quite aware of the point the OP was making. I'm also aware of claims that concealed carry reduces violent crime rates.

I am also aware of studies which show that easier concealed carry increases violent crime rates.

I am also aware that studies about homicides (rather than "violent crime") also show different results.


Now what?


edit on 12/9/2018 by Phage because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 09:22 PM
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We had dead people and illegals in that JAMA survey oddly enough. Next issue.

edit on 9-12-2018 by Plotus because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 09:33 PM
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Criminals carry concealed despite the law.

I had to go through a 10 year background check, get finger printed, take a course, and pay a lot of money for my CCW. Its BS that I have to license a right when criminals don't even bother.

The fact that the system is also set up to price out many poor people is also BS.



posted on Dec, 9 2018 @ 10:11 PM
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a reply to: Phage

The OP’s study used the same longitudinal data set — a more recent vintage — as the U of Chicago did 20 years earlier.

Concealed Carry and Crime

The study was published in the Journal of Legal Studies, which you can probably find, but the linked working paper has all the goods.

I’ve read Philip Cook’s position on it and some of his studies...mind linking those studies that show different results?




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