How does Evolution explain Male and Female - Why are there two sexes Creating Genetic Variations ?

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: AlienView

I think until you are able to sufficiently define and demonstrate a supernatural force at work, we have no logical choice but to accept the results of the scientific method.

Yet people who rely entirely on the scientific method for truth are dying with an incomplete understanding of the world. You idolize the scientific method, but it has not brought fulfillment to anyone, and has left the dying people of the world without an answer.

I am of the firm belief that some puzzles are best left unsolved.

a reply to: AlienView

It does not . What it does Explain is the Concept of Positive and Negative , a Binary Reality which Determines All Future Events by Personal Choice . Think about that for a Moment in REAL Time .......)....Hmm...

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: AlienView

I think until you are able to sufficiently define and demonstrate a supernatural force at work, we have no logical choice but to accept the results of the scientific method.

Yet people who rely entirely on the scientific method for truth are dying with an incomplete understanding of the world. You idolize the scientific method, but it has not brought fulfillment to anyone, and has left the dying people of the world without an answer.

Brother, you fight for the right cause, but in the wrong way.

Amazon - Autoblow 2(maybe NSFW but barely)

Don't tell me my life can't be fulfilled with science.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: AlienView

I think until you are able to sufficiently define and demonstrate a supernatural force at work, we have no logical choice but to accept the results of the scientific method.

Yet people who rely entirely on the scientific method for truth are dying with an incomplete understanding of the world. You idolize the scientific method, but it has not brought fulfillment to anyone, and has left the dying people of the world without an answer.

I am of the firm belief that some puzzles are best left unsolved.

Z

NO! - We are here to solve it all - That's what we're here for - That is the goal, meaning and reason for
what you call Evolution - An evolving intelligence that NEVER SAYS NEVER

A 'Big Bang' occurring in an undefinable void without cause or reason - You don't really believe that do you ?

A single cell occurring in a 'primordial soup' that suddenly lives and breathes because of random chance
and develops an ability to reproduce itself - You don't really believe that do you ?

How about an a priori [before all else] intelligence that backs all that exists - A Universe that is
absolutely and always existent - A World that is Intelligence manifesti in matter, energy and then life.

Believe it - You're part of it and can not escape - Science and Intelligence rules, creates and is all
that exists!

So mister scientist go back to work- Just don't forget the 'Elder Gods' that came first.

originally posted by: AlienView

originally posted by: TzarChasm

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: AlienView

I think until you are able to sufficiently define and demonstrate a supernatural force at work, we have no logical choice but to accept the results of the scientific method.

Yet people who rely entirely on the scientific method for truth are dying with an incomplete understanding of the world. You idolize the scientific method, but it has not brought fulfillment to anyone, and has left the dying people of the world without an answer.

I am of the firm belief that some puzzles are best left unsolved.

Z

NO! - We are here to solve it all - That's what we're here for - That is the goal, meaning and reason for
what you call Evolution - An evolving intelligence that NEVER SAYS NEVER

A 'Big Bang' occurring in an undefinable void without cause or reason - You don't really believe that do you ?

A single cell occurring in a 'primordial soup' that suddenly lives and breathes because of random chance
and develops an ability to reproduce itself - You don't really believe that do you ?

How about an a priori [before all else] intelligence that backs all that exists - A Universe that is
absolutely and always existent - A World that is Intelligence manifesti in matter, energy and then life.

Believe it - You're part of it and can not escape - Science and Intelligence rules, creates and is all
that exists!

So mister scientist go back to work- Just don't forget the 'Elder Gods' that came first.

Be careful, that's how Rick Sanchez happened. The cartoon character, not the journalist.

Also worth pointing out that you still haven't defined or demonstrated a supernatural force in the process of evolution. Being befuddled by logistics is not evidence.

originally posted by: Toothache

Brother, you fight for the right cause, but in the wrong way.

Amazon - Autoblow 2(maybe NSFW but barely)

Don't tell me my life can't be fulfilled with science.

hahaha well played.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Also worth pointing out that you still haven't defined or demonstrated a supernatural force in the process of evolution. Being befuddled by logistics is not evidence.

If evolution happened, it would definitely need an abundance of supernatural forces to allow it to bypass the numerous hurdles that are simply not repeatable or possible in a lab. But, if supernatural intelligent forces were present that were capable of creating life, they would not rely on millions of years of chaos, they would just do it rather quickly. Consider how quickly you create a vast world with intricate characters and objects in your dream every night. How much easier for an omniscient God to do so?

a reply to: cooperton

they wouldnt rely on millions of years of chaos they'd do it rather quickly, like in seven days!

so if they are so infallable and supernatural, and created all life then why are there imperfections in their creation , did they design those imperections in as well ?
Did they design in the diseases which affect their creations , whats the purpose in those ?
to humble us ?

Why create life as well as every single thing that can destroy that life seems like a waste of time
unless the beings that created the universe are just comedians and sadists.

Like why create everything so perfectly to allow for life in the goldie locks zone, then create asteroids which can create extinction level events, as soon as humanity is wiped out so is god
Not very smart or supreme being like , who would be left to worship

I'll concede to intelligent design that is exluded from organised religion and a bearded dude in the sky
because if the universe was intelligently designed then all the evidence we need of god was already there, so why did he need to write a book , to reassure us ? I mean after he gifted us with the ability to think and have free will , so surely it would be blatanlty obvious to us without having to pen a book which points it out for us!

Did god make everything and no one realised it was him , so he took the huff and his ego was bruised, so he wiped them all out in a flood and wrote a book to prove he was real !

originally posted by: sapien82

so if they are so infallable and supernatural, and created all life then why are there imperfections in their creation

Explained by the fall of humankind. Originally it was perfect, but then choosing imperfection caused imperfection to exist in the system.


I'd answer your other questions but you don't actually want answers, you just want to try to prove it wrong. If you ever are actually interested I could go through it rather thoroughly. For now, I think you'll like this agnostic musing:

a reply to: cooperton

You assume I don't want answers, but I am happy to hear what you have to say on the matter, i'll watch the video this afternoon over lunch!

thanks

originally posted by: cooperton

originally posted by: Toothache

Brother, you fight for the right cause, but in the wrong way.

Amazon - Autoblow 2(maybe NSFW but barely)

Don't tell me my life can't be fulfilled with science.

hahaha well played.

originally posted by: TzarChasm

Also worth pointing out that you still haven't defined or demonstrated a supernatural force in the process of evolution. Being befuddled by logistics is not evidence.

If evolution happened, it would definitely need an abundance of supernatural forces to allow it to bypass the numerous hurdles that are simply not repeatable or possible in a lab. But, if supernatural intelligent forces were present that were capable of creating life, they would not rely on millions of years of chaos, they would just do it rather quickly. Consider how quickly you create a vast world with intricate characters and objects in your dream every night. How much easier for an omniscient God to do so?

I don't create a whole world with intricate objects and characters in my dreams. And comparing the universe to what happens in my sleeping mind is a logical fallacy that once again fails to define or demonstrate any supernatural force in the process of evolution. Funny how people keep dodging that part.

a reply to: TzarChasm

And also the only reason we create so many worlds and characters in our dreams is because we retain all the images we see and then our brains re-organises them to make worlds up and faces and places .

It's because we have experienced them in waking reality and I agree with you they are no where near the detail they are in reality.

a reply to: cooperton

I'm just curious don't need to answer if you don't want to , have you ever had a psychedelic experience ?

Ok , any supernatural being wit the ability to create a universe , what level of power would that require
as any technology so advanced would look like magic to lesser beings or like Divine intervention!

So what technology would be required for a being to create an entire universe, what kind of power would be required to manipulate all the matter in the universe.

we already theorise the Dyson sphere an object designed to harness the entire energy of a host star , so the Kardashev scaled would suggest a type V civ being able to harness the entire energy of the Universe.

Maybe they are responsible for all of this !

Maybe if the universes expands and contracts they can survive in another dimension or something !

I love to think about all this stuff, so I am glad to hear your thoughts on it , thanks again for sharing

a reply to: TzarChasm

supernatural

supernatural adjective
su·​per·​nat·​u·​ral | ˌsü-pər-ˈna-chə-rəl , -ˈnach-rəl

"Definition of supernatural

1 : of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe
especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil

2a : departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature
b : attributed to an invisible agent (such as a ghost or spirit)"

Quoter source:
www.merriam-webster.com...

1. The existence of the universe is itself supernatural - Science can not explain why the universe exists - Why it
occurred in the first place.

2. The roots of Evolution are also supernatural - No probable reason can adequately explain the initial esistence of
a living breathing cell - Nor can it fully explain why the cell had reproductive power - What elemets of nature
'so aligned so as to make the cell reproduee itself - and why?

3 And finally why these reproductive cells continue to differentiate into many, many other forms of life
- Until all this can be desxcribed with absolute cetainithy - It is Superrnatural !

When a natural, totally definable, explantaiton of these and other factors are available then supernatural can then be said to be natural.

originally posted by: sapien82
a reply to: cooperton

I'm just curious don't need to answer if you don't want to , have you ever had a psychedelic experience ?

I have a lot to say about psilocybin and lysergic acid. They elicit premature awakenings given the right receptive mind. They allow you a glimpse of what is to come, but should be taken with extreme reverence otherwise the light may blind you. You talk of the collective consciousness and it is a common occurrence for that to be revealed during a trip. I hypothesize dimethyltryptamine is the natural way by which humans come in-tune to these extra-dimensional worlds. Dimethyltryptamine is almost identical structurally to psilocin (the active ingredient in psychedelic mushrooms). I have experienced and searched many many things.

I did not come to my conclusion about God by blind faith, but by pursuing knowledge and coming to the realization of transcendental properties. I would not advise psychedelics, you don't want to ruin the surprise.

Ok , any supernatural being wit the ability to create a universe , what level of power would that require
as any technology so advanced would look like magic to lesser beings or like Divine intervention!

You're thinking of Creation of this universe as being similar to the creation of a machine. This is not so. The Creation event wasn't done by hands, but with an always existent Mind. Now don't picture a brain floating in space, it is instead pure, all-encompassing energy. This primordial Mind was able to create simply by thinking or speaking things into material existence from its energetic essence. E = mc2 simply says all mass is just super dense energy.

Just like in your dreams you think things and they come to be, this greater Mind was able to intelligently cause all things into existence in a similar manner. This is why the hologram theory has become so popular, because physics is consistently telling us that all matter is a result of electromagnetic laws (i.e. electron clouds, E=mc2, quantum physics, etc).

So it was not a technology that created us, because then we would be stuck with the dilemma of who created that technology. Instead we have to look above our dimensional restraints and realize that whatever created the complexity we see around us is outside of time, and far more capable than we are. This is why prophecy proves this Being, because it fulfills things which it pre-supposed beforehand to demonstrate its validity.

Take for example Abraham willing to sacrifice his son Isaac - this was foreshadowing because God would one day be willing to sacrifice his firstborn son for the betterment and liberation of the world. This exalted Abraham because he was willing to do what God would one day do for all of humanity.

These and other prophecies indicate the all-of-time-encompassing alpha omega.

a reply to: AlienView

So basically, until science can explain it, it just has to be magic? All of history is evidence to the contrary.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
a reply to: AlienView

So basically, until science can explain it, it just has to be magic? All of history is evidence to the contrary.

Are you replying to me? - I never used the word magic - You did

Magic

1. the art of producing illusions as entertainment by the use of sleight of hand, deceptive devices, etc.; legerdemain; conjuring: to pull a rabbit out of a hat by magic.

2. the art of producing a desired effect or result through the use of incantation or various other techniques that presumably assure human control of supernatural agencies or the forces of nature. Compare contagious magic, imitative magic, sympathetic magic.

3. the use of this art: Magic, it was believed, could drive illness from the body.


But now that you bring up magic - Don't you really love scientific atheism - The belief that the universe, life,
and all the exists can stem from NOTHING

That, more than any supernatural God concept of a theist is pure magic !



“I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness. We cannot get behind consciousness. Everything that we talk about, everything that we regard as existing, postulates consciousness.”
― Max Planck

originally posted by: AlienView
But now that you bring up magic - Don't you really love scientific atheism - The belief that the universe, life,
and all the exists can stem from NOTHING

Why do you keep repeating fallacious nonsense that has already been corrected in this thread? You have been straw manning atheists since the first post. STOP. It has already been explained that atheism is lack of belief in gods, it has nothing to do with explaining the origin of the universe or whether or not it comes from "nothing." This is super dishonest, please stop the false generalizations.

If you want to believe in your wonky version of ID, then by all means have fun with it, but stop dishonestly trying to categorize atheists under your fictional umbrella. I don't understand the need to constantly misrepresent us.

Texta reply to: Barcs

"Encyclopedia Britannica"

Atheism

Atheism, in general, the critique and denial of metaphysical beliefs in God or spiritual beings. As such, it is usually distinguished from theism, which affirms the reality of the divine and often seeks to demonstrate its existence. Atheism is also distinguished from agnosticism, which leaves open the question whether there is a god or not, professing to find the questions unanswered or unanswerable.

The dialectic of the argument between forms of belief and unbelief raises questions concerning the most perspicuous delineation, or characterization, of atheism, agnosticism, and theism. It is necessary not only to probe the warrant for atheism but also carefully to consider what is the most adequate definition of atheism. This article will start with what have been some widely accepted, but still in various ways mistaken or misleading, definitions of atheism and move to more adequate formulations that better capture the full range of atheist thought and more clearly separate unbelief from belief and atheism from agnosticism. In the course of this delineation the section also will consider key arguments for and against atheism.

Atheism As Rejection Of Religious Beliefs

A central, common core of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam is the affirmation of the reality of one, and only one, God. Adherents of these faiths believe that there is a God who created the universe out of nothing and who has absolute sovereignty over all his creation; this includes, of course, human beings—who are not only utterly dependent on this creative power but also sinful and who, or so the faithful must believe, can only make adequate sense of their lives by accepting, without question, God’s ordinances for them. The varieties of atheism are numerous, but all atheists reject such a set of beliefs.

Atheism, however, casts a wider net and rejects all belief in “spiritual beings,” and to the extent that belief in spiritual beings is definitive of what it means for a system to be religious, atheism rejects religion. So atheism is not only a rejection of the central conceptions of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam; it is, as well, a rejection of the religious beliefs of such African religions as that of the Dinka and the Nuer, of the anthropomorphic gods of classical Greece and Rome, and of the transcendental conceptions of Hinduism and Buddhism. Generally atheism is a denial of God or of the gods, and if religion is defined in terms of belief in spiritual beings, then atheism is the rejection of all religious belief.............

.

See whole article here:
www.britannica.com...

originally posted by: Barcs
"But now that you bring up magic - Don't you really love scientific atheism - The belief that the universe, life,
and all the exists can stem from NOTHING?"

Why do you keep repeating fallacious nonsense that has already been corrected in this thread?

It is not a fallacious argument, you just don't like the conclusions so you ignore it and say its debunked simply because you do not like it. Your "corrections" are not based on any logical refutation, but simply blind religious zeal that refuses to acknowledge logical assertions.

You have been straw manning atheists since the first post. STOP. It has already been explained that atheism is lack of belief in gods, it has nothing to do with explaining the origin of the universe or whether or not it comes from "nothing." This is super dishonest, please stop the false generalizations.

You don't understand your own religion then. Atheism is a lack of belief in gods. This leaves the question of where the cosmos came from then. The entire existence of the cosmos is therefore believed by atheists to have come to existent without gods, since they don't believe in them.

a reply to: AlienView

DUDE! Nothing you posted there supports your claim that an atheist must believe everything can come from nothing. Stop being so dishonest.