Liberalism wins again Obamacare saved by the People

a reply to: DBCowboy

We don't need to focus on how to pay for the high costs of medical care, what we need to focus on is lowering the costs of medical care.

Are you seriously talking about some group, some GOVERNMENT regulating what these healthcare companies can charge?

Hmmmm, tell me more

a reply to: underwerks


So make the homeless people healthy first?

How do you force someone to be healthy?

You can't.

Maybe offering them food and shelter would sway them.

Obamacare is a complete and total failure, they had a chance to do things to really curtail the scam that is insurance, and instead Nancy and Harry made certain the people that owned their souls got paid.

While I'm all for universal healthcare...I'm not a big fan, or a fan at all for that matter, of all the taxes written into the ACA.

Yes, it's got to be paid for somehow...but not like this man...not like this.

A2D

a reply to: underwerks

My argument is that we’re all already paying for it in so many different ways.

I think we should at least try something different.

I agree. How is traveling down a road we've already been down different?

ETA: The gov't subsidizes about 2/3 of the healthcare in the U.S. It's essentially a blank check.

a reply to: Willtell

It’s not a win for liberalism. It’s a win for big government.

But the solution is simple. Those prices can be lowered without giving more power to the state.

The reason healthcare in the US is so high is because of the prices of everything from prescriptions to equipment. Unlike other nations, the US government has less control over prices.

What we need is some humanist such as yourself to offer lower prices, to drive the costs down, provide cheap insurance to the people, and the rest will follow. I’m not sure giving money to a government in the hopes that they provide good healthcare makes you a humanist or a liberal—I wager you have never provided any healthcare to any human beings yourself—It makes you a statist.

originally posted by: highvein
a reply to: underwerks


So make the homeless people healthy first?

How do you force someone to be healthy?

You can't.

Maybe offering them food and shelter would sway them.

One leads to the other. I think you have to entertain the idea that a lot of these people are homeless because their mental health issues leave them unable to work or provide for themselves. Taking care of the things that lead these people to be homeless is a step in the right direction. That includes the people who are bankrupted by paying for healthcare as well.

I support helping them with housing and food too. This is just my opinion, and obviously it isn’t a popular one. But I think helping the people in our society will benefit it as a whole.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: Lumenari

Well, America works somewhat.

The reason it doesn’t work too well has little to do with Liberalism since America is a doomed country due to greed and other issues we won’t bring up at this

Unfettered capitalism is what made this country the strongest in the world.

Progressivism will drag it down to nothing.

What you want is too many fleas on one dog.

Progressivism is a cancer... it grows in the host and eventually takes up so many resources it kills itself by killing said host.

Your idealism is not the answer to anything... it just leads to starvation and death.

See... history.

And I'm done with this thread.

You will learn absolutely nothing with this conversation.

I hope that others that read it do.

a reply to: underwerks

Jesus H ####ing Christ.

Am I the only one who read the 2000 page Obamacare Law?

Yes, puddin', government MANDATES WHAT A HOSPITAL CAN CHARGE

originally posted by: JinMI
a reply to: underwerks

My argument is that we’re all already paying for it in so many different ways.

I think we should at least try something different.

I agree. How is traveling down a road we've already been down different?

We haven’t been down that road yet. People keep taking the wheels off the car before we can turn on to it.

a reply to: underwerks

Oh we have, and it was to the tune of some $600B just to start which was 2/3 of the actual costs!

It's not viable man.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: underwerks

Jesus H ####ing Christ.

Am I the only one who read the 2000 page Obamacare Law?

Yes, puddin', government MANDATES WHAT A HOSPITAL CAN CHARGE

Yeah you’re probably the only person who read all 2000 pages of the ACA.

So are you for the government regulating what a hospital can charge? You said what should be addressed is lowering the costs of medical care. How would you go about forcing these companies to charge a certain rate if not through government regulation?

a reply to: underwerks

That includes the people who are bankrupted by paying for healthcare as well.

I don't know. I don't think I could morally make the decision to bankrupt my family and leave them homeless to save myself.

I support helping them with housing and food too. This is just my opinion, and obviously it isn’t a popular one. But I think helping the people in our society will benefit it as a whole.

I don't know anyone that would not support helping people who need it. The only thing I don't trust is putting the government in charge of handling it. Do you like the way our government handles things?

a reply to: Willtell

Since ObamaCare is nothing more than a watered-down version of Medicare, the govt might as well beef it up and merge it with Medicare. ObamaCare costs U.S. taxpayers over $150 Billion dollars, just to insure 18 million Americans (time.com... ), it would be more efficient to simply merge it into Medicare.

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: underwerks

Jesus H ####ing Christ.

Am I the only one who read the 2000 page Obamacare Law?

Yes, puddin', government MANDATES WHAT A HOSPITAL CAN CHARGE

Yeah you’re probably the only person who read all 2000 pages of the ACA.

So are you for the government regulating what a hospital can charge? You said what should be addressed is lowering the costs of medical care. How would you go about forcing these companies to charge a certain rate if not through government regulation?

Christ.

Tell me you're not that stupid.

One- Stop government mandates on costs for Medicare reimbursement
Two- Look at all the issues (artificial for the most part) that have caused medical costs to rise so drastically in the past 30 years.


You're too young to remember, but I remember a time in the 60's and 70's and even the early part of the 80's where insurance was something you might get but never needed.

People paid out of pocket.



If you had insurance it was for big things.

A broken arm? pfft. Out of pocket.

Strep throat? pfft. Out of pocket.

Yearly check-ups? pfft. Out of pocket.

originally posted by: Willtell

Well, America works somewhat.

The reason it doesn’t work too well has little to do with Liberalism since America is a doomed country due to greed and other issues we won’t bring up at this

Well hopefully before we go down we takeout Canada first, that would be about a weekend...

The problem with Obamacare was it was known that it was not sustainable as they signed it. It affected 330 million people to help about 5% of the population. My healthcare went out of sight as example.

I say help the 5% and leave the other 95% alone until the whole system is redone from the ground up. As to your so called care, do you mind if we ship all of these people to Canada, it is easy to sit north and complain about us...Hell maybe we can ship the 4 billion that are even worst off then those coming south to Canada so you all can say how good you are.

Some of you Canadians talk a lot of crap...get a life and stay north of the border...

a reply to: Willtell

Look, I don’t like corporate American dominance and greed either but it’s the best we can get within this system at this time.

Yet here you are extolling the virtues of a managed care system that has been ripping people off since Lyndon Johnson's Great Society.

You're doubling down on the very same thing that has caused the problem to begin with. We can do better but you and every other liberal have been convinced that we need to hand insurance companies our livelihoods instead of doing the RIGHT thing and outlawing health insurance and allowing doctors and patients to settle the market.

As they say

Don’t let the perfect be an enemy of the good

What do they say about continuing to do the wrong thing for decades?

a reply to: underwerks

Because under the unACA......I not paid taxes and a premium, but I also had no insurance to speak of.
I never met my deductible, so EVERYTHING was out of pocket.
That is not insurance.

originally posted by: Willtell
I always say when there are no more homeless, jobless, people without health care, the environment is saved, and severe poverty is wiped out, as humans have the capacity to do now, I might just become a conservative.

I’m a practical and humanitarian liberal. I am for the death penalty for murderers, for more severe criminal penalties against rapists, and crimes against people and not crazy about abortion and free love, though I am 100 percent for LGBT rights, though do not accept forcing people to do something against their religion, also I’m am NOT for open borders.

But when it comes to helping and assisting human beings I am proudly a liberal

And the recent 10 year battle by conservative Republicans in the courts and in the Congress where they tried to get rid of not only Obamacare but its vital elements such as protections for pre-existing conditions, thank God is over!

And like when the conservatives fought Social Security, unemployment insurance, and child labor laws, all liberal plans to progress society forward, universal Health insurance for ALL Americans is now closer to realization. Of course no thanks to the Republican Party


All thanks are to the members of the US Senate and Congress and the people who fought and defeated the effort to defeat the humane and needed cause of universal health insurance.

Finally, even the republican senate and Trump himself understands the American people want at least Obamacare and actually a better more improved one.

I commend the victory of the American people

All those things you mentioned are impractical. There will always be those things in every society. Some people actually want to be homeless and do not want help. Some people do not want to work or want healthcare. Even if we made car insurance free there would be about 20% of the population that would not care. They would not sign up period. I know this because I have seen it firsthand, even in my own extended family. Not everyone can be saved because not everyone wants to be saved.

Obamacare is a big failure. I actually initially thought it was a good start to go towards socialized medicine but it turned out to just boost fraud and deception by the medical industry. We need socialized medicine, not Obamacare. We need oversight to make sure that people are not deceived into getting treatments they do not need. I think half the colonoscopies they give are wasted procedures since the patients had no symptoms at all that showed they needed one. The poop tests more often then not have false positives which convinces patients to get something stuck up their ass and the procedures most time show no cancer. But they convince the people that the couple of polyps they removed were worth it...what a scam.