Global warming put into perspective. It's Bologna

a reply to: Phage

As t stands I don't believe it
Maybe in time I will see the evidence

At the very least, along the coast where I live, south from Bremmer to Quobba, no discernible changes anywhere at all in 35 years I have travelled the coast

Though fish species that once remained North in the warmer climes now travel further south due to warmer currents, southern species now roam further north

There is change, not buying all the diatribe though


Irrespective, Venice has always been sinking, it's built on mud

a reply to: Raggedyman

Venice has always been sinking

Yes. Sort of. I don't know about that "always" part.

But parts of North America have been rising ever since the ice went away. That doesn't change the fact that sea level is rising and the planet is warming.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Raggedyman

Venice has always been sinking

Yes. Sort of. I don't know about that "always" part.

But parts of North America have been rising ever since the ice went away. That doesn't change the fact that sea level is rising and the planet is warming.

We should be warming since 1850 and the little ice age.. I do not have a crystal ball that knows what will happen in ten years and by their track record neither does the IPCC or anyone's computer model...

Now I do know some land areas are springing back after being relieved of a mile or two of ice covering.. However southern Florida and the Keys are starting to get sea water in the streets during certain high tides and wind conditions.. With all the sink holes occurring in Florida I really do wonder if Florida and the Keys are sinking.. Last figure I saw on sea level rise was around 7mm in the last 132 years .. If correct that is not enough to cause the flooding and I doubt thermal expansion is enough either even though El Niño and other factors do cause changes.. ?

NASA says the sea level has risen on average 3mm a year since 1992 which is considerably larger than the 7mm in 132 years I have seen this year someplace ?.. In places along the gulf coast the sea has risen 10mm a year which is a falsehood because places like LA. are sinking but you still get flooding and wet.. Alaska's sea level has fallen in some areas as much a 17mm a year since 1992 .. I do wonder how much the sinking and rising of the land masses mean for those concerned about their ocean front property.

Either way there is nothing we can do except build a sea wall or do like the Dutch and reclaim the land from the sea..Other option is pay to have lights out for many

a reply to: 727Sky

We should be warming since 1850 and the little ice age.

The whole planet? Why?

With all the sink holes occurring in Florida I really do wonder if Florida and the Keys are sinking..

Parts are doing so, indeed. Extraction of fresh water is partly to blame but people need water. Right?

Either way there is nothing we can do except build a sea wall or do like the Dutch and reclaim the land from the sea

This is true. Do you think there is any point in denying that it is happening?

a reply to: Phage

It is kinda stupid to deny anything that can be honestly physically measured...with a big bold on Honestly.. It is also stupid to believe in computer models which have not been right in their forecasting for at least 30 years yet policy is being made and using them as voice of doom gospel.

After the last big ice age thaw all the prehistoric coastal cities are now under 400 to 600 feet of ocean..stuff happens so you move or fight the sea.. My money is on the sea, every time..

I do not deny climate is changing simply because that is what it does.. I do have big big doubts about warming is being caused by man and his output of CO2 as there are many other contributors of CO2.. 400ppm ain't that big of a deal and neither is 1500ppm as it has happened before.

I do figure that by 2025 or at the very latest 2030 we will have enough unfiddled data to know if the climate is going hotter or colder as both events can cause extremes in the weather... This winter by the global cooling guys is going to be another record breaker for many parts of the world.. They are also saying global food supplies are down due to droughts and late or early rains and freezes.. Wheat in many of the wheat growing areas is forecast to be down again after the 77 million metric ton world decrease since 2016/17 as reported this October by the USDA... again heat a drought can do the same thing to crops..

So I am not ready to hang my hat on either hot or cold at this stage ... If I had a wishing tree I would wish for warmer and all the benefits warmer would mean for everyone and everything...while colder means death and starvation to millions and possibly a few billion peeps around the world..

a reply to: 727Sky

It is also stupid to believe in computer models which have not been right in their forecasting for at least 30 years

You are mistaken.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

a reply to: Phage

How about listening to 4 experts. Mann the father of the hockey stick graft vs Curry & Moore... Mann is now saying 6 to 9 feet rise of the sea level.There are even graphs on both sides which go back further than 1980.... two speakers support AGW. The other two do not but pay attention to the last speaker and his graphs. It is cycles according to the studied/researched history of Earth. youtu.be...

a reply to: 727Sky

How about listening to 4 experts.

How about you stop saying the models are wrong?

Mann is now saying 6 to 9 feet rise of the sea level.

By end of the century, yes. And that is a 30% margin of error. Quite large, isn't it? That is because there are many uncertainties. But it is certain sea level is rising and will continue to do so at an increasing rate. But maybe the models are completely wrong. Maybe there's nothing to worry about. Go ahead and stick your head in the sand, but not at a beach. That would be a real bad idea.

It is cycles according to the studied/researched history of Earth

Yes cycles. But which parameters of those cycles are the cause of the current warming? Is the Sun heating up? Milankovitch cycles are causing the warming? The fact that there are natural climate cycles does not change the fact that increasing CO2 levels will cause global temperatures to rise. But fine, lets just continue to think that the warming is due to something else. Something we haven't quite figured out what it is. Good plan. But we actually do know quite a bit about those cycles, and other things that influence climate.
www.indiana.edu...

a reply to: Phage

If .04 of one percent CO2 can do all this warming then we are screwed. If heat causes more water vapor which has much more effect on the temperatures then it will get hotter.

The models I refer to that were wrong are the ones used to proclaim the arctic would be ice free by 2008 and again in 2013.. I am sure with all the millions of dollars for model results they can find one that sort of stays withing the actual measured temperatures for a short period.

The graph you posted is in the debate since you evidently did not watch the video. Then a longer term temp record is shown.. Not quite the same alarmist thing when viewed long term.

So if you do not have the time to read or watch the rebuttal why have a discussion ?

Mann is very persuasive in his opening statement and his model predictions.. if someone was not there to point out his errors then it would be easy to take his spiel hock line and sinker. There are two sides (or more) to most everything .. I hope (if life is still good) we are around come 2025 to be proven wrong or right one way or the other..2030 is kinda pushing it for me but I would take it if offered and still healthy.



I realize you are a busy kinda guy but if you get a chance listen to the last presenter and his presentation

a reply to: 727Sky

If .04 of one percent CO2 can do all this warming then we are screwed. If heat causes more water vapor which has much more effect on the temperatures then it will get hotter

Yes. There are other feedback effects too. Lower Arctic albedo is a big one.

The models I refer to that were wrong are the ones used to proclaim the arctic would be ice free by 2008 and again in 2013

Which climate models made those predictions? Can you be more specific? Are they worst case projections perhaps? If you're paying so much attention to them, shouldn't you pay attention to the best case projections too?


Curry, I have read. I know her stance.

Moore as well.

a reply to: Phage
Arctic summers ice-free 'by 2013'

By Jonathan Amos
Science reporter, BBC News, San Francisco

Scientists in the US have presented one of the most dramatic forecasts yet for the disappearance of Arctic sea ice.

Their latest modelling studies indicate northern polar waters could be ice-free in summers within just 5-6 years.

Professor Wieslaw Maslowski told an American Geophysical Union meeting that previous projections had underestimated the processes now driving ice loss.
Summer melting this year reduced the ice cover to 4.13 million sq km, the smallest ever extent in modern times.

Remarkably, this stunning low point was not even incorporated into the model runs of Professor Maslowski and his team, which used data sets from 1979 to 2004 to constrain their future projections.
"Our projection of 2013 for the removal of ice in summer is not accounting for the last two minima, in 2005 and 2007," the researcher from the Naval Postgraduate School, Monterey, California, explained to the BBC.

"So given that fact, you can argue that may be our projection of 2013 is already too conservative."

Too conservative .... sound familiar ?

Just Google or do a search for BBC NEWS | Science/Nature | Arctic summers ice-free 'by 2013'But there are other articles and model forecast available which were also wrong.
www.google.com... .co.uk%2F2%2Fhi%2Fscience%2Fnature%2F7139797.stm&usg=AOvVaw0kLpWd3wuyRzjRJZ5Y9rx9
NASA said ice free by 2013 youtu.be...


Are the numbers real or fiddled adjusted for an agenda ? youtu.be...

any funded government entity can produce a fake/fraudulent temperature graph.. Caught red handed once again.
youtu.be...


Sea level rise has been 2mm per year since the 1920s But...in the last 20,000 years sea level has risen around 130 meters or close to 400 ft.. now that would be something to get everyone in a tizzy if it was happening today.

Tide gauges are not showing the astounding sea level predicted rise (up to 17 inches in the USA N.E.) however the satellite data is where they are getting their numbers from which is not working and is in direct conflict with the actual measurements from the tide gauges.... But hey those darn satellites cost a lot of money so we need to use their data even if wrong or there goes our future funding for more satellites !
youtu.be...

a reply to: 727Sky

Arctic summers ice-free 'by 2013'

Yup, that specific prediction about Arctic ice was wrong. So all climate models are wrong. Got it. Do you want a list of wrong predictions of those who dispute the fact that the planet is warming? The ones that predicted cooling by now? Here's a doozy:
skepticalscience.com...

Ah. I see. Now you going back to gish galloping. Too bad.

Bye.

a reply to: Phage

That East Anglia University farce ended any real belief global warming should be a real issue with me
Yeah, it was all a mistake and it was all cleared up and the University was right, but what are they going to say, we lied
I am not denying man and our effects on the global weather, it's a fact, but
There are so many lies about global warming, who should really care anymore, except you for some reason

Ice caps are going to disappear, island would vanish, what a pile of crap now 20 years on
Fukushima looms larger and is far more deadlier than climate change because Fukushima is real and happening and is a fact

Go save the world, it doesn't matter anymore

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Raggedyman

Never seen God either ...

So you don't believe?

The word is "moot."
www.dictionary.com...

That's great, I havnt seen it

Right. And you don't believe it's happening because you haven't seen it.

Considering it was supposed to have happened and it hasn't, I am dubious

Actually, it is happening. Sea level is rising. Believe it... or don't.

Most people say it has not moved whatsoever...and it hasn't.

It has not gotten warmer either...not worth mentioning anyways...

Gotta love the radiative forcing nonsense that claims it knows how the atmosphere works.

Why is it that your carbon religion has been so staggeringly wrong for 30 straight years now ?

Time to question there findings...clearly they are nowhere near accurate and likely are full of half-truths and obfuscation.....gasp!!

originally posted by: ParasuvO

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: Raggedyman

Never seen God either ...

So you don't believe?

The word is "moot."
www.dictionary.com...

That's great, I havnt seen it

Right. And you don't believe it's happening because you haven't seen it.

Considering it was supposed to have happened and it hasn't, I am dubious

Actually, it is happening. Sea level is rising. Believe it... or don't.

Most people say it has not moved whatsoever...and it hasn't.

It has not gotten warmer either...not worth mentioning anyways...

Gotta love the radiative forcing nonsense that claims it knows how the atmosphere works.

Why is it that your carbon religion has been so staggeringly wrong for 30 straight years now ?

Time to question there findings...clearly they are nowhere near accurate and likely are full of half-truths and obfuscation.....gasp!!

And I could be wrong here, but most of those findings about global warming are talking about a wealth of research numbering thousands of scientific papers. Research that isn't biased. It's the interpretation and explanation of them that can be biased. The earth is definitely getting warmer according to the unbiased research...earth = globe. I'm not a part of any religion though.