Brexit will not happen

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: ManFromEurope

What about people like those 105 from Eigg?

Running out of arguments mate ?

Dude, you have made NO argument, yet. Could you give me at least a source for your 9.000.000.000.000 pounds? Or did you tell the number in us-american units (seriously?!?)?

The UK's government has made NO plans, and that will not make it better for the people on the streets.

What about people who can only live their lifes by subsidiaries like the people of Eigg? You haven't even tried to answer that! Because you have the same amount of answers the UK government has.


And in the end, everything will be blamed on the EU. Of course.


Edit: oh, and those people are just one of those pesky .. details.

Oh, did somebody on THIS BOARD mention "People's Vote March" on Saturday in London? Or do these hundreds of thousands of people not count?

Really, sometimes this board is just going "LA-LA-LA, can't hear you! Won't mention the dark clouds on the horizon! Everything is going we-ell!"

a reply to: ManFromEurope

Dude, you have made NO argument, yet. Could you give me at least a source for your 9.000.000.000.000 pounds? Or did you tell the number in us-american units (seriously?!?)?

In 2017 the UK made an estimated gross contribution (after the rebate) of £13.0 billion. The UK received £4.1 billion of public sector receipts from the EU, so the UK’s net public sector contribution to the EU was an estimated £8.9 billion.
researchbriefings.parliament.uk...

What about people who can only live their lifes by subsidiaries like the people of Eigg?

I guess the subsidy will continue from the UK or Scottish government.

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
a reply to: alldaylong

Okay, so set sail and start trading with.. China, I guess?

The U.K. already trades with China.

What's your point?

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: ManFromEurope

Dude, you have made NO argument, yet. Could you give me at least a source for your 9.000.000.000.000 pounds? Or did you tell the number in us-american units (seriously?!?)?

In 2017 the UK made an estimated gross contribution (after the rebate) of £13.0 billion. The UK received £4.1 billion of public sector receipts from the EU, so the UK’s net public sector contribution to the EU was an estimated £8.9 billion.
researchbriefings.parliament.uk...

Okay, that (and some other sources co-funding this) is relevant data.
Problem for your argument: that is part of the financial settlement called "divorce bill". The UK is willing to pay 35 to 39 thousand million pounds. That will last some years.

What about people who can only live their lifes by subsidiaries like the people of Eigg?

I guess the subsidy will continue from the UK or Scottish government.
I hope they do.

a reply to: ManFromEurope

Oh, did somebody on THIS BOARD mention "People's Vote March" on Saturday in London? Or do these hundreds of thousands of people not count

OK i will play.

The vast majority of those people on that march where those who voted to stay in The E.U. Just a case of " Sour Grapes " on their behalf.

The march was also held in London. London by a large majority voted to stay in The E.U. Also many on the march where from other E.U. countries but now live and work in The U.K. They obviously want to stay here.

It would be interesting to see how many would have turned up if the march had been held in Lincoln for example. The people of Lincoln voted over 90% to leave The E.U.

a reply to: alldaylong

What was your point? Tellling me that Singapore does less trade with the EU than if it were in a tax-union with the EU? That does not make sense.

Trading in a global scale is not everything happening in trade between UK and neighboring states. If you are okay with global players being uninfluenced by the Brexit and thats all there is, I would say that the people on the street are not all shareholders of said companies and have to earn their income by small trades.
How much, would you say, can the UK be an independent, discrete country with much less imports/exports than prior, or with those pesky taxes on those?

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: ManFromEurope

Oh, did somebody on THIS BOARD mention "People's Vote March" on Saturday in London? Or do these hundreds of thousands of people not count

OK i will play.

The vast majority of those people on that march where those who voted to stay in The E.U. Just a case of " Sour Grapes " on their behalf.

The march was also held in London. London by a large majority voted to stay in The E.U. Also many on the march where from other E.U. countries but now live and work in The U.K. They obviously want to stay here.

It would be interesting to see how many would have turned up if the march had been held in Lincoln for example. The people of Lincoln voted over 90% to leave The E.U.

So their voices count less than those of the people of Lincoln (87800 population)?
Yes, it would be indeed interesting to hear the voices of Lincoln. (oh, there is data about this: 37-45% would vote "stay" today.)

a reply to: ManFromEurope

So their voices count less

Their voices where heard in the referendum of 2016.

They lost.

Living in Germany as you do, you must not be a happy bunny, as Germany's E.U. contribution will rise after The U.K. pulls out.

originally posted by: BenignChaos
a reply to: LightSpeedDriver

I would say, as my opinion, the EU helps safeguard against wars against member states. Their shared economies and resources seem as a damper against war.

I am sure that, if politicians actually did the right thing, issues could be overcome and happiness spread to all members. That would be possible if officials lived up to the expectations of their office.

Thank you for your reply.

In my opinion, you have a centralized unelected body pilfering the member states to the point that they couldn't war with each other. But why would they suddenly start warring with each other if the EU was disbanded?

originally posted by: stormcell
Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain only have #ed up economies because of all the illegal immigrants piling up on their shores. The rest of Europe doesn't want them, it's impossible to send them back to Africa and wherever else they came from. So the only solution is to house, cloth and feed them in detainment camps. That costs money, and there are millions. The EU has to redirect funds from the rest of Europe to keep these countries from going bankrupt.

The solution proposed by these countries is that the rest of Europe should share the burden. France is now offering it's home owners a £1500 tax reduction if they house a refugee. Germany took in 1 million - look how that worked out for them. Austria, Poland and Hungary are practically at war with the EU over this kind of mandatory allocation.

Those countries had bad economies before them.

Greece, for example, has such a high public sector that tax evasion by the rest of the country has become a national pastime. They could not pay their public employees. They were killing the goose that laid their bureaucracy's golden eggs.

This was way before the refugees started to pile up and pile on.

BREXIT will happen and the calls for a so called peoples vote (losers vote) are futile and treacherous!

www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: alldaylong
a reply to: ManFromEurope

So their voices count less

Their voices where heard in the referendum of 2016.

They lost.

Nothing about the newer data from Lincoln?

Living in Germany as you do, you must not be a happy bunny, as Germany's E.U. contribution will rise after The U.K. pulls out.

Funny thing is, nobody speaks about that

Don't get me wrong:
I really like the people and the country of UK, wonderful cities, damnworthy M25, sucky weather and cuisine, but its still the country in the world where I went to most often.
I really do not want anyone to suffer from that Brexit, and I have the conviction that the Brexit-voting was a protest vote without much overview of the real consequences, powered by populists without a plan.

Germany can not and will not hinder UK leaving the EU, we all have to live with the consequences. And sure, I am quite confident that Germany will suffer not so much like many other countries of the EU - having subsidiaries cut to a small percentage, having to pay more, etc.

But the EU can not allow the UK to leave EU without pain, or there would be other populistic parties trying to have their own country to do the same. They HAVE to let UK bleed, there is no way around that. Anything else, like some rose-blossom laid out path out of the EU would be suicide.

I like the EU. Far better than stupid old "my country is better than your country!!!" (spoken in that dumb-flat tone reserved for people with one-digit-IQ in comedies). We have to work together, or we will be steamrolled by emerging new semi-superpowers like China, India, even Indonesia!

This is a topic I would never allow people to tell after-Brexit that the EU "broke" the UK. The UK's government is willing and accepting that they might get a "hard Brexit" with sever consequences all over the board!

Nobody forced the UK to leave, just some populists had very loud voices about "foreign infiltration" and such, and the sheeple (I hate that word, but it seems fitting here, much to my dismay) followed.

a reply to: ManFromEurope

Thank you for your fairly reasoned reply. However i want to pick you up on one comment you made, which is this.

But the EU can not allow the UK to leave EU without pain

This alarms me. It reminds me of what the former Soviet Union would have said about their occupation of Poland, Hungary etc who wanted their freedom from Moscow.

When a country voluntary joins a union of nations, penalties should not be threatened if they then decided to leave.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: fusiondoe

Article 50 has been signed so on March 29th we will leave the EU , Juncker , Tusk and the others don't want that so they're making things as difficult as they can

Oh, of course not. They don't even need to; the Brits do a great job there themselves

originally posted by: BenignChaos
a reply to: surfer_soul

I cannot tell you what wars have been prevented because they have not happened. War can arise quickly for reasons that seem trivial. You never know, Hungary might have had aspirations to exact revenge upon Austria for their subjugation.

The economies of Europe are so connected now, war no longer has any advantages between member states.

If done correctly I would gladly accept a unified global government to unite the species finally. What good do borders and nations humanity when we all are the same species?

Seriously you are using the extremely unlikely event of military war as a reason to stay in the European Union.You can have treaties without interjecting all forms of governmental procedures on a member nation. LOL being a yankee this one reason our states rights are so important so they don't get swallowed up by whole federal system. Considering Europe and Britain both arent that far removed from colonialism maybe thats why you cant grasp that certain regions wants or needs may be vastly different than other regions. If it was working there wouldnt have even been a vote to leave.

May says 95% of the agreement stands, Brexit will happen. I'm not saying that's a good thing but you want it you get it. And at least hard Brexit seems unlikely. Lucky...

a reply to: fusiondoe

You can't leave something you were never in.

Many constitutional experts believe that Britain isn't actually a member of the European Union since our apparent entry was in violation of British law and was, therefore invalid.

www.vernoncoleman.com...

This whole Brexit debacle is a verbal diarrhoea fest. Profitable for those who speak from the wrong end, but a waste of valuable living time for the rest of us.