Brexit will not happen

a reply to: BenignChaos

Could you imagine what would happen to democracy in the UK if that happened? So we give a second vote and lets say that remain win, then do we leavers get a third vote? And if we win the third what about a fourth then a fifth, hell at what point do we say enough is enough. If remain would've won the first vote any leaver who brought up the subject of a second vote would be laughed out of the room so don't give me rubbish like that. If you want to attack the way the first vote was done that no level of majority was chosen etc. then fine you can have that debate but trust me a second vote will not be the easy thing that so many people believe.

Also on a personal note, the fact that my slice of democracy hasn't been carried through yet means my vote hasn't been carried out. If a second vote takes place it'll make election harder to win because then I will want a second vote if my party doesn't win and as well many others. If you want a second vote you do not understand the damage that it will do to democracy in this country - you only have to look at how the EU deals with countries who decide to go against their wishes and are battered into voting again or out right threatening to remove the right to vote (Holland I believe). So yeah, a second vote will be far more damaging in the long run than the first.

originally posted by: BenignChaos
a reply to: Masterjaden

Their economies are terrible because their leaders are terrible. Would you have the average citizen of a country suffer so you may enjoy a life of comfort?

Instead of turning your back and abandoning, how about offering help and guiding them to be more prosperous? Selfless rather than selfish?

That's the problem.

What you call prosperity is actually done at the expense of others. If some countries are horribly run, that is their problem and the problem of their peoples to rectify. You can attempt to force them to live in a way you think is better, but compelling a thing is not the same as having someone adopt it by choice. People who are compelled will always resent it and never fully embrace it. That's why dictatorships are always bloody, horrible places.

What the EU is is a system run by an unaccountable, unelected bureaucracy. Such things always trend toward dictatorship, and their solution toward poorly run countries is to take from those who have better managed nations to prop up the bad ones.

That's not compassion because nothing about the poor running of those nations changes. It's theft on a grand scale. It leaves nations who were better off less able to take care of their own like they used to while throwing money away on sucking black holes that will never change their own way.

originally posted by: BenignChaos
a reply to: surfer_soul

I cannot tell you what wars have been prevented because they have not happened. War can arise quickly for reasons that seem trivial. You never know, Hungary might have had aspirations to exact revenge upon Austria for their subjugation.

The economies of Europe are so connected now, war no longer has any advantages between member states.

If done correctly I would gladly accept a unified global government to unite the species finally. What good do borders and nations humanity when we all are the same species?

I cannot tell you what wars have been prevented because they have not happened

That was a fantastic dodge and deflect
And right on time , too.
Must have learned from a master.
Alinsky ?

Do you want to know what most medias in Germany think in their comment-columns?

That the Brexit will happen.

And that there are only two possible outcomes: (a) positive for the UK or (b) heavily negative for the UK. Nothing much will happen to the EU.

And what will happen then in the UK?

(a) EVERYTHINGS FINE, WE DID GOOD! Hurrays all around.
(b) EVERYTHING IS ON FIRE, THE EU DID BAD! Blaming the EU for everything what has happened since the Brexit, but only the bad things.

The UK-government can only win. May will sit in her Chequers Manor and laugh about the perils of the masses, stupid masses, what did they think would happen?! Everyone depending on import/export will curse her name, her familys name for seven generations and everyone else involved in Brexit. Everyone depending on international trade with the immediate neighbors will curse her, too. Everyone depending on companies which depend on international trade will curse her, too.

The cursing will never stop.

But hey, it COULD work out! The politicians are SO HARD at work with the planning of the Brexit, what could go wrong?

Yes, there are traces of (/s) in this.

a reply to: ManFromEurope

Is that you Jean-Claude ?

a reply to: gortex

Do you have another outlook?
I would like to hear your variante, really. What else could happen realistically?

Edit: 10 minutes later.. *crickets*

a reply to: ManFromEurope

I believe there will be a deal but it will likely go down to the last moment , there's a game of brinkmanship going on now but both sides know they need a deal , the EU have played this tough all along which has done them no favours , if there is no deal we should walk away.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: ManFromEurope

I believe there will be a deal but it will likely go down to the last moment , there's a game of brinkmanship going on now but both sides know they need a deal

If I may break your sentence right here - the EU does need a deal, or does the EU need a deal LESS than the UK?
What has the EU to lose from a "hard Brexit"?

, the EU have played this tough all along which has done them no favours

Sure, why not? But is hasn't done them "no favours", or could you quote some international affairs going down because the EU wasn't the bootlicker to the UK's demands?

, if there is no deal we should walk away.

If there is no deal you HAVE to walk away. That is the final deal. And it will not end in happiness, I can not imagine how. North Ireland is a major deal-breaker, and there seems to be no real idea how to solve that besides some tax-union with the EU. Which would be "picking the cherrys", and is frowned upon by European leaders. Mainly by Merkel, but right now she is quite the heavyweight in the EU, damn her all you want.

a reply to: ManFromEurope

If there is no deal you HAVE to walk away. That is the final deal. And it will not end in happiness,

What makes you so confident that it won't?

I am sure countries such as Korea, Japan and Singapore have been very unhappy never being a member of The E.U.

a reply to: ManFromEurope

If I may break your sentence right here - the EU does need a deal, or does the EU need a deal LESS than the UK?

Both parties need a deal.

What has the EU to lose from a "hard Brexit"?

£ 9 billion in contributions + lost trade.

Greece, Italy, Portugal and Spain only have #ed up economies because of all the illegal immigrants piling up on their shores. The rest of Europe doesn't want them, it's impossible to send them back to Africa and wherever else they came from. So the only solution is to house, cloth and feed them in detainment camps. That costs money, and there are millions. The EU has to redirect funds from the rest of Europe to keep these countries from going bankrupt.

The solution proposed by these countries is that the rest of Europe should share the burden. France is now offering it's home owners a £1500 tax reduction if they house a refugee. Germany took in 1 million - look how that worked out for them. Austria, Poland and Hungary are practically at war with the EU over this kind of mandatory allocation.

originally posted by: fusiondoe
Is it not obvious that all of this is part of the agenda to stop brexit.That includes Mays struggle to keep her job, the demand for a second referendum, the negotiation failure etc etc etc etc

There is no way the British government and the elite were ever going to allow brexit to happen and this is all part of the agenda.

I can imagine the discussions behind closed doors:

Ok we will let them think Brexit is going to happen, then work with our partners to ensure that the public is brainwashed, so that they start demonstrating in London for a final vote, they will then vote on the final say being that we stay in the customs union etc etc... BANG, brexit in name only!

OR

Do all of the above, May is conveniently pushed out as leader and a VERY convenient general election is called and labour is voted in... BANG, no brexit at all.

If we do not leave the EU in full then I am out of this country, I am packing up and I am moving.

That is all

get to Texas as soon as ya can....., We hereby invite you to a steakhouse party cookout throwdown celebration of good common sense and you being willing to recognize and stand up to it

a reply to: stormcell

How did it work out for Germany?
What do you think about Germany’s situation in your own mind?

a reply to: gortex

And a lot went back in subsidiaries, for example to the island of Eigg. What ist the UK planning to do for those people?

a reply to: alldaylong

Those are thousands of kilometers away, how would they be a comparison?

a reply to: ManFromEurope

The £9 billion is what we pay after returns , before returns it's about £14 billion.

originally posted by: ManFromEurope
a reply to: alldaylong

Those are thousands of kilometers away, how would they be a comparison?

In a global economy distance means bugger all.

Those countries i mentioned have booming economies despite not being in The E.U.

You make it sound like being in The E.U. is the end all.

a reply to: alldaylong

Okay, so set sail and start trading with.. China, I guess?

a reply to: gortex

So, are there plans to replace the subsidiaries? What about people like those 105 from Eigg?

a reply to: ManFromEurope

What about people like those 105 from Eigg?

Running out of arguments mate ?