Man, 87, Searches for Job to Pay for Wife's Medical Bills: 'He's a Very Good Man', She Sayss

Given that the feds can't seem to run the VA or Medicare/Medicaid efficiently, I don't know how anyone thinks they will be able to run Universal Healthcare for everyone.

I'd prefer free markets as I think they lead to better healthcare and lower costs, but I think the country has gone too far down the rabbit hole of wanting free sh*t. Too many people simply don't want to be responsible for their own lives and outcomes.

The only way I can see universal healthcare working is significantly cutting back in other areas which neither party will want to do. We'd also have to tax everyone.... considering nearly 50% of the people don't pay sh*t as it is, not sure how that is going to fly either.

originally posted by: Wayfarer
I dunno, I've been hanging around my Republican/Trump friends a lot recently and they've really educated me on the nature of this problem and whats the correct solution.

Apparently if you can't afford medical care, you don't deserve medical care. I am told this is a self solving problem, as in if nothing is done then those who can't afford it will simply die and remove themselves from the equation. Eventually we're left with only those citizens who are 'boot strappy' enough to afford to take care of themselves.

I'm not sure I would call that "being educated", it's quite the opposite. I think it's more like learning to be cold, and avoiding the realities of human needs. If we lived in a poor country, we would have no choice. But we don't. And we do.

originally posted by: LightSpeedDriver
a reply to: watchitburn

Simple question. If your elderly parents (or other family members) fell on hard times and bad health in older-age, wouldn't you be happy for socialised health care?

Or would you rather see them suffer?

There are more than two options.

Socialism isn't charity.

a reply to: Edumakated

I think we could shift to a Dutch-style universal healthcare system fairly easy. Most insurance is still purchased through insurance companies. The only difference is they're not allowed to profit off basic insurance plans. They have to be offered at cost.

They can then make profit off of offering more luxury offerings. Such as guaranteeing a private hospital room or covering voluntary surgery.

For those people that still can't afford a plan there are government programs in place to help cover the cost.

originally posted by: angeldoll

originally posted by: Wayfarer
I dunno, I've been hanging around my Republican/Trump friends a lot recently and they've really educated me on the nature of this problem and whats the correct solution.

Apparently if you can't afford medical care, you don't deserve medical care. I am told this is a self solving problem, as in if nothing is done then those who can't afford it will simply die and remove themselves from the equation. Eventually we're left with only those citizens who are 'boot strappy' enough to afford to take care of themselves.

I'm not sure I would call that "being educated", it's quite the opposite. I think it's more like learning to be cold, and avoiding the realities of human needs. If we lived in a poor country, we would have no choice. But we don't. And we do.

Oh its tongue on cheek on my part. I'm as much of a bleeding heart liberal as one can be, so I'm just using this forum as a means of sharing some of the other perspectives from those across the political divide that I feel are represented here at ATS but for obvious reasons are expressly called out matter of factly.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Edumakated

I think we could shift to a Dutch-style universal healthcare system fairly easy. Most insurance is still purchased through insurance companies. The only difference is they're not allowed to profit off basic insurance plans. They have to be offered at cost.

They can then make profit off of offering more luxury offerings. Such as guaranteeing a private hospital room or covering voluntary surgery.

For those people that still can't afford a plan there are government programs in place to help cover the cost.

Except how do you propose convincing the Insurance companies to cut 75% of the revenue? Surely you don't think compassion is going to do it, because they've got shareholders to please......

a reply to: projectvxn

But apparently capitalism is. $650 million are being raised on GoFundMe each year for medical reasons.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Edumakated

I think we could shift to a Dutch-style universal healthcare system fairly easy. Most insurance is still purchased through insurance companies. The only difference is they're not allowed to profit off basic insurance plans. They have to be offered at cost.

They can then make profit off of offering more luxury offerings. Such as guaranteeing a private hospital room or covering voluntary surgery.

For those people that still can't afford a plan there are government programs in place to help cover the cost.

The problem with comparing the US to those countries is that we are exponentially bigger and have a much more diverse (Ethnically and culturally) population. I don't see it scaling up very well for a country of 350 million people.

I'd support individual states offering universal healthcare provided they can pay for it by taxing their own residents.

The US would need to shut our borders down as well. Free sh*t and open borders does not mix.

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: angeldoll

originally posted by: Wayfarer
I dunno, I've been hanging around my Republican/Trump friends a lot recently and they've really educated me on the nature of this problem and whats the correct solution.

Apparently if you can't afford medical care, you don't deserve medical care. I am told this is a self solving problem, as in if nothing is done then those who can't afford it will simply die and remove themselves from the equation. Eventually we're left with only those citizens who are 'boot strappy' enough to afford to take care of themselves.

I'm not sure I would call that "being educated", it's quite the opposite. I think it's more like learning to be cold, and avoiding the realities of human needs. If we lived in a poor country, we would have no choice. But we don't. And we do.

Oh its tongue on cheek on my part. I'm as much of a bleeding heart liberal as one can be, so I'm just using this forum as a means of sharing some of the other perspectives from those across the political divide that I feel are represented here at ATS but for obvious reasons are expressly called out matter of factly.

It didn't come across that way so good on the clarification.

a reply to: Willtell

The problem is poor planning as the info of whats covered is available...its up to the individul to plan for supplemental insurance to cover the gaps. If you plan for your retirement properly you will have funds to cover the gaps without expecting nanny government to do it for you. This isn't the fault of anyone but the individual that didn't plan for such things because either they didn't bother to learn about it or didn't care enough to do so. I bet over 90% of those in this position fit into one of the 2 reasons I mentioned and the rest probably do deserve some help as sometimes there are unforseen circumstances one can't always account for, however that is the exception not the rule.

a reply to: Wayfarer

I couldn't care less what the insurance companies want. They're one of the most profitable industries in the country and yet they don't actually offer a service. They convinced people they need to pay them money so when the time comes that the money is needed it can be denied and end up in a CEOs pocket.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Wayfarer

I couldn't care less what the insurance companies want. They're one of the most profitable industries in the country and yet they don't actually offer a service. They convinced people they need to pay them money so when the time comes that the money is needed it can be denied and end up in a CEOs pocket.

That is demonstrably false. Insurance company profit margins are in the single digits...

a reply to: Edumakated

I don't see why it wouldn't work. It's essentially the same system we have now but it limits the insurance companies' predatory practices.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: Wayfarer

I couldn't care less what the insurance companies want. They're one of the most profitable industries in the country and yet they don't actually offer a service. They convinced people they need to pay them money so when the time comes that the money is needed it can be denied and end up in a CEOs pocket.

Oh I agree with you dude, I'm just saying that even though many conservatives also agree with you, they aren't going to give up the fight against abortions or immigration just so we can all have affordable healthcare. The insurance companies have hitched their wagon to conservative ideology in such a way that they can't be easily decoupled from the aforementioned issues and generally those aforementioned issues take priority in peoples minds. My wife's parents are staunch Republican Trump Loving Conservatives, and although they believe health care should be cheap/free, education should be cheap/free, social services should be expanded (really think all the positive aspects of Christianity), their paramount issue is abortion and they will give up EVERYTHING else that doesn't come with it.

a reply to: Athetos


Source

So it isnt a massive amount but it shows this does occur quite a bit..,and its due to wait lists.

originally posted by: RickyD
This is what happens when you don't properly save and plan for your own retirement. My parents and grandparents did not grow up rich at all yet all are retired save my mom and they all have great insurance and all have health issues requiring procedures and medicines that aren't exactly cheap...yet some how they are able to still provide for themselves because of saving and planning for their future. Why should I be reaponsible for others poor planning?

Sometimes you just can't get ahead no matter how hard you try. And sometimes catastrophic things can happen that wipe out any savings you had. Not everyone is on a road that leads to comfortable retirement.

I work with a 78 year old man who is still working 2 jobs to help take care of his wife who can't work because of medical issues. Sadly, my employer appears to be trying to nudge him out because of his age. He is one of the hardest workers in his crew. Has years and years of knowledge. Never complains and does his job to the best of his ability in a safe manner. His knee is not good, but he gets out there and does what he has to do to help his family. It's sad that at his age, he has no other recourse. There will be no retirement for him and he's not alone.

At some point, men and women like him have more than contributed to society and I feel that should be acknowledged by not letting them die poor and often sick with little or no help.

My Mom had a massive stroke a couple years ago....the paramedics rang for life-flight....$25,000
Thing is she was brain dead instantly. That didn't stop the Catholic hospital from drilling into her head and keeping her "alive" for 6 weeks until the insurance ran out. THEN...OMG, better mover her to hospice....nothing we can do for her.

The problem is all these fake, thievin, evil, criminal Jesus church hospitals are in cahoots with the insurance companies. Ban insurance, tax churches at 80%, and make medical price gouging illegal. $800 for an epi-pen? $10k for an ambulance ride?

a reply to: Subrosabelow

Sure it happens...its just not usually due to out of control events that one can't plan for. I wont say that it doesnt happen though. There should be a safety net for those people who just have the worst luck. I don't think most people fall into that category though. My own father found himself in that very position for 15 or so years before he died. I was very close to him and tried to do what I could, however I was not in a position in my life to be much good financially myself. He wasn't in that position because of some unforseen issue he couldn't account for. He was in that position because he drank too much and lost his job in the education system and never recovered. He lost a retirement and worked a lot of deadebd entry level jobs that did not provide any benefits after that and subsequently had to live off SS money which was not much.

That is about the same kinds of stories I hear anytime I hear of someone in a bad position when they're that age trying to go back to work.

Once the conservatives get free of their programming in liberal versus conservative, this messed up country might get somewhere.

Were already doing socialistic things like other countries and a proper balance of decent capitalism and sane socialism will work.

a reply to: Willtell

Once the conservatives get free of their programming in liberal versus conservative, this messed up country might get somewhere.

hmmm....
why does that sound so familar???

“You know, to just be grossly generalistic, you could put half of Trump’s supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables. Right? The racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic, Islamaphobic—you name it. And unfortunately there are people like that. And he has lifted them up.”