A World Without Israel??

I will reraise you a "no read" and add a "believes whatever he hears" also. Most definetly an ignoramous

Originally posted by RebelSaint
I will reraise you a "no read" and add a "believes whatever he hears" also. Most definetly an ignoramous

Funny watching these folks show just how clueless they are!

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
some more truth by Arabs www.freemuslims.org...

I've been trying to find out more about "Sarah El Shazly" but it seems that is the only article that she's ever written and there is no information about this woman anywhere on Google.

I found articles she wrote left and right in Google.

Originally posted by AceOfBase
Just look at the maps of Land ownership of Palestine from 1945:
Land ownership by sub-district (1945)

Here's another one showing population distribution:
Palestine_population 1946


BTW, if you want a fairly good document on agriculture in Israel you can look at the document below from 1930:

Palestine report on immigration, land settlement and development
Results of Jewish Settlement.

The results of Jewish colonisation of the Vale of Esdraelon are varied. In some villages there are clear signs of success; in others, the opposite is the case. The village of Afuleh, which the American Zionist Commonwealth boomed as the Chicago of Palestine, is a sea of thistles through which one travels for long distances. A plague of field mice, which has done extensive damage to both Jewish and Arab cultivation in the Vale during the present year was officially stated to be due to the fact that 30,000 dunams of the land held by the Jews are derelict and covered with weeds. It is also a fact that in a number of villages the tithes paid by the Jews are considerably below those paid by the Arabs who formerly cultivated those villages.

Its Past.

It is a mistake to assume that the Vale of Esdraelon was a wilderness before the arrival of the Jewish settlers and that it is now a paradise. A very large amount of money has been spent by the various Jewish agencies, and great improvements have been made. The work that has been done, especially in the direction of drainage and the introduction of new and improved methods of agriculture is highly valuable. There can be little doubt that in time, the application of capital, science, and labour will result in general success. It is, however, unjust to the povertystricken fellah' who has been removed from these lands that the suggestion should continually be made that he was a useless cumberer of the ground and produced nothing from it. It should be quite obvious that this is not the fact.

In ancient times Esdraelon was the granary, and by the Arabs is still regarded as the most fertile tract of Palestine. The soreness felt owing to the sale of large areas by the absentee Sursock family to the Jews and the displacement of the Arab tenants is still acute. It was evident on every occasion of discussion with the Arabs, both effendi and fellahin.

[edit on 1-3-2005 by AceOfBase]

My dear friend,
you provided 2 sources - One was the Palestinian Authority web site(!) or affilliates the other was a pro-palestinian UN Committee - MAN, YOU CAN'T GET MORE BIASED THAN THAT!!!!
The sources I provided were not that of Zionist organization or Israeli Gov't web sites. I provided websites of organizations or people who do not have an interest in the arguement - UNBIASED sources.

Therefore I think it would be good not to depend on biased sources since it can be deceitful.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
My dear friend,
you provided 2 sources - One was the Palestinian Authority web site(!) or affilliates the other was a pro-palestinian UN Committee - MAN, YOU CAN'T GET MORE BIASED THAN THAT!!!!
The sources I provided were not that of Zionist organization or Israeli Gov't web sites. I provided websites of organizations or people who do not have an interest in the arguement - UNBIASED sources.

Therefore I think it would be good not to depend on biased sources since it can be deceitful.

Why do you think the UN was biased in 1945 and 1946?
That was the timeframe that they created Israel.
Look at the note on the image, it states they were village statistics from the Palestine governement, Jerusalem 1945 (UK?).

The link on agriculture is from the United Kingdom in 1930.

The UN and UK documents from that timeframe are going to be the most unbiased and the most informed sources of information. Why do you assume the random sites with no credibility that you are posting are better?
What are they using as their sources of information?
I would actually prefer if you posted links from the Israeli government.
At least they would be well researched.

EDIT: Please post one of those articles from Sarah El Shazly.
I could not find any that were not just a repeat of the one you posted earlier.

[edit on 2-3-2005 by AceOfBase]

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi

Originally posted by Ryanp5555
i personally believe you have to look more towards the christian religion, specifically the end of times prophecies, to see why the US decides to back Israel. And FYI for whoever said that Muslims and Christians were fighting way before there was an Israel, there was an Israel way before there were Muslims and Christians, but i get what you meant by that.

Can you please elaborate. I've heard a few versions of it (Evangelist) out of curiosity.

I tend to distance myseld from the concept of prophesies since they always seem to explain the past but never the future.

Yes i will elaborate. From what i have read in terms of deciphering Revelation and other prophecies from the bible, and im not sure if i am going to say everything accurately as i have become more into Jesus than the prophecies of the end. One sign of the end of times is that Gog and Magog are going to attack Israel, many say, and it may be a fact, that this is Syria and Russia... kinda makes things interesting now doesn't it? It is said that those who oppose Israel will be destroyed. And also, it says that when Gog and Magog attack Israel God will lay his hand over Israel, and the attacks on Israel will be miraculously defended. Then the Anti-Christ will come to power, rebuild the temple of Solomon in Jeruesalem, and the Jews wouldn't protest as they need it to be rebuilt for the coming of the "Messiah." After this, the Anti-Christ will claim he is God at some point and blah blah blah blah blah.... i only say blah because i would be going off subject, i dont think it's boring. Now, our nation, being mostly christian along with a lot of pervious presidents and political leaders, wouldn't want to be destroyed so of course we are going to protect Israel. And possibly the creation of the "new" Israel was created in order for the End of Times to come, because maybe the leaders wanted Jesus to return, who knows. But it all ties into a cycle that i believe we will see the end of, atleast the majority of those on this board. If you need to know more info just U2U me, as i am reluctant to check this thread, but not reluctant to check this board!

Originally posted by AceOfBase
EDIT: Please post one of those articles from Sarah El Shazly.
I could not find any that were not just a repeat of the one you posted earlier.
[edit on 2-3-2005 by AceOfBase]

see blog.rajanr.com...
and
www.arabsforisrael.com...

I will link you with information from the Israeli Gov't and Zionist organizations if you would like.

Regarding the UN palestine committee. I fear that these type of committees would use data that support their ideas from sources and timelines that suit their need. The UN itself is problematic as a source since there is much interest involved in it. If you would like to discuss this we can - Just that now I can't - maybe later on today.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi

I will link you with information from the Israeli Gov't and Zionist organizations if you would like.

I would like information from the Israeli government website if you have time to do some research.

I'm specifically looking for statistics on pre-1947 population of Israel/Palestine and population distribution if you can find it.
I'm also looking for information on pre-1947 land ownership and pre-1947 agricultural production and finally, immigration.

EDIT: BTW, I posted some early videos of Palestine and Israel in another thread if you're interested in that type of thing. www.abovetopsecret.com...
(unfortunately they're not in English)

[edit on 2-3-2005 by AceOfBase]

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi

I will link you with information from the Israeli Gov't and Zionist organizations if you would like.

I would like information from the Israeli government website if you have time to do some research.

I'm specifically looking for statistics on pre-1947 population of Israel/Palestine and population distribution if you can find it.
I'm also looking for information on pre-1947 land ownership and pre-1947 agricultural production and finally, immigration.

EDIT: BTW, I posted some early videos of Palestine and Israel in another thread if you're interested in that type of thing. www.abovetopsecret.com...
(unfortunately they're not in English)

[edit on 2-3-2005 by AceOfBase]

I'll try to do this later on tonight although I'm not sure anything solid will come of it since data was sketchy from that time. Britan was occupying a land in turmoil - reliable immigration data would be nearly impossible to find. Much of the deeds for land would be left overs from the Ottoman Empire and anything the British were able to record (Although the Jewish National Fund might have some data) - It should be noted that land purchase by Jews was forbidden under Ottoman rule and following that as well under the British mandate for a while
see www.palestinefacts.org...

Probably only exported agricultural production would be documented.

May I ask - why the interest?


[edit on 2-3-2005 by JudahMaccabbi]

he didnt read it....

he who ???

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
May I ask - why the interest?

You've called my sources biased and at least implied the information I presented was not accurate. I want to see what the Israeli government has to say about the figures I presented you with.


[edit on 2-3-2005 by AceOfBase]

Originally posted by BaastetNoir

he didnt read it....

he who ???

Pretty quick like arent ya!

Pretty quick like arent ya!

im quick when i need to be, and im not a he ...

Originally posted by AceOfBase

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
May I ask - why the interest?

You've called my sources biased and at least implied the information I presented was not accurate. I want to see what the Israeli government has to say about the figures I presented you with.


[edit on 2-3-2005 by AceOfBase]

OK didn't have much time for this but I got this at least:
www.palestinefacts.org...
you can also see what the Jewish National Fund website has to offer and www.zpa.org.

Happy Hunting.

Originally posted by BaastetNoir
and im not a he ...

My apologies mam!