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A World Without Israel??

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posted on Feb, 23 2005 @ 11:56 PM
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Interesting article, I thought that the entire worlds problems are either the US's fault or the Israelis. I cant say I agree with everything in this article but it is intriguing nonetheless...


A World Without Israel

Imagine that Israel never existed. Would the economic malaise and political repression that drive angry young men to become suicide bombers vanish? Would the Palestinians have an independent state? Would the United States, freed of its burdensome ally, suddenly find itself beloved throughout the Muslim world? Wishful thinking. Far from creating tensions, Israel actually contains more antagonisms than it causes.


Since World War II, no state has suffered so cruel a reversal of fortunes as Israel. Admired all the way into the 1970s as the state of “those plucky Jews” who survived against all odds and made democracy and the desert bloom in a climate hostile to both liberty and greenery, Israel has become the target of creeping delegitimization. The denigration comes in two guises. The first, the soft version, blames Israel first and most for whatever ails the Middle East, and for having corrupted U.S. foreign policy. It is the standard fare of editorials around the world, not to mention the sheer venom oozing from the pages of the Arab-Islamic press. The more recent hard version zeroes in on Israel’s very existence. According to this dispensation, it is Israel as such, and not its behavior, that lies at the root of troubles in the Middle East. Hence the “statocidal” conclusion that Israel’s birth, midwifed by both the United States and the Soviet Union in 1948, was a grievous mistake, grandiose and worthy as it may have been at the time.



States vs. States: Israel’s elimination from the regional balance would hardly bolster intra-Arab amity. The retraction of the colonial powers, Britain and France, in the mid-20th century left behind a bunch of young Arab states seeking to redraw the map of the region. From the very beginning, Syria laid claim to Lebanon. In 1970, only the Israeli military deterred Damascus from invading Jordan under the pretext of supporting a Palestinian uprising. Throughout the 1950s and 1960s, Nasser’s Egypt proclaimed itself the avatar of pan-Arabism, intervening in Yemen during the 1960s. Nasser’s successor, President Anwar Sadat, was embroiled in on-and-off clashes with Libya throughout the late 1970s. Syria marched into Lebanon in 1976 and then effectively annexed the country 15 years later, and Iraq launched two wars against fellow Muslim states: Iran in 1980, Kuwait in 1990. The war against Iran was the longest conventional war of the 20th century. None of these conflicts is related to the Israeli-Palestinian one. Indeed, Israel’s disappearance would only liberate military assets for use in such internal rivalries.


My Enemy, Myself
Can anybody proclaim in good conscience that these dysfunctionalities of the Arab world would vanish along with Israel? Two U.N. “Arab Human Development Reports,” written by Arab authors, say no. The calamities are homemade. Stagnation and hopelessness have three root causes. The first is lack of freedom. The United Nations cites the persistence of absolute autocracies, bogus elections, judiciaries beholden to executives, and constraints on civil society. Freedom of expression and association are also sharply limited. The second root cause is lack of knowledge: Sixty-five million adults are illiterate, and some 10 million children have no schooling at all. As such, the Arab world is dropping ever further behind in scientific research and the development of information technology. Third, female participation in political and economic life is the lowest in the world. Economic growth will continue to lag as long as the potential of half the population remains largely untapped.






Why, sure—if it weren’t for that old joke from Israel’s War of Independence: While the bullets were whistling overhead and the two Jews in their foxhole were running out of rounds, one griped, “If the Brits had to give us a country not their own, why couldn’t they have given us Switzerland?” Alas, Israel is just a strip of land in the world’s most noxious neighborhood, and the cleanup hasn’t even begun.


Israel actually contains more antagonisms than it causes.




posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 12:13 AM
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I always found it ironic that such a small country could be the center of world events for so long. Did you know that Israel's land area, even with the West Bank and Gaza Strip, is only slightly larger than New Jersey?
And, with a population of 6 million people, there are more people living in the New York City, New York metro area than there are living in Israel.


[edit on 2/24/2005 by ThunderCloud]



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 12:36 AM
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some perspective.... www.iris.org.il...



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 12:44 AM
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Originally posted by namehere
some perspective.... www.iris.org.il...


what about Iran? its not on that map.



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 12:52 AM
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iran is persian, not arab.



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 01:01 AM
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What I find strange if true is this below, but it comes from Rense so who knows

On February 15, 2005, Judge Michael Chertoff, a "de jure" Israeli citizen, was sworn in as the second Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security for the United States.

While his official biographies carefully omit the essentials of his parents' citizenship, this much can be deduced.

Link



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 01:18 AM
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This well-written article fully catelogues and details the third and current "Great Jihad" against the West.

www.insiderreport.net...



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 09:05 PM
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Man that was one AWESOME READ....


Thanks!



Jimmy Carter sets the stage

The strategy for this “holy war” did not begin with the planning of the destruction of the World Trade Center. It began with the plans for toppling the Shah of Iran back in the early 1970’s and culminated with his exile in 1979. With his plans and programs to “westernize” his country, along with his close ties to the U.S. and subdued acceptance of the State of Israel, the Shah was the soft target.

Thanks, in large part to the hypocritical and disastrous policies of the Jimmy Carter State Department the revolution was set into motion, the Shah was deposed, his arm forces scattered or murdered and stage one was complete. The Third Jihad now had a base of operations and the oil wealth to support its grand design or what they call the “Great Caliphate”.



What surprised the Jihadists following the 9/11 attack was how American sentiment mobilized around the president and a profound sense of patriotism spread across the country They were not expecting this reaction, based on what had happened in the past, nor were they expecting the determined resolve of the President himself. I believe that this is one of the reasons we have not had any further attacks within our borders. They are content to wait, just as one of their tactical mentors, V.I. Lenin admonished…”two steps forward, one step back”.

Just some exceprts..read this folks its a good one!



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger


Jimmy Carter sets the stage



Yes you are right there,




Zbigniew Brzezinski not long ago revealed that on July 3, 1979, unknown to the American public and Congress, President Jimmy Carter secretly authorized $500 million to create an international terrorist movement that would spread Islamic fundamentalism in Central Asia and "de-stabilise" the Soviet Union...
The CIA called this Operation Cyclone and in the following years poured $4 billion into setting up Islamic training schools in Pakistan (Taliban means "student").



www.rense.com...

It seems that the Carter involvement that created the center stage for terrorist camps may have been well planned back then.

Sorry I posted the wrong link it should be right now.

Occurs is just a "conspiracy"

[edit on 24-2-2005 by marg6043]



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 09:23 PM
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And to think he has a Nobel Peace Prize.............



posted on Feb, 24 2005 @ 09:40 PM
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Originally posted by edsinger
And to think he has a Nobel Peace Prize.............


No kidding! What I don't get is, Jimmy Carter is known as a highly intelligent man -- he worked as an engineer in the nuclear science program when he served in the U.S. Navy -- so how could he make such stupid mistakes as U.S. President?

...Unless, they weren't mistakes...



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 05:49 AM
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If Israel cease to exist,I think at least most of the middle east-western/Islamic conflict would never occur.I believe Israel is a mistake we could avoid some time ago and if we could ever turn back time,this is one major mistake we should mend.Anyways,don't get me wrong.I have nothing against the Jews or Israel.

Pluck out the roots of evil and we'll all be happy singing "kumbayaa" in the sunshine.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 09:50 AM
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Originally posted by Heartagram
If Israel cease to exist,I think at least most of the middle east-western/Islamic conflict would never occur.I believe Israel is a mistake we could avoid some time ago and if we could ever turn back time,this is one major mistake we should mend.Anyways,don't get me wrong.I have nothing against the Jews or Israel.

Pluck out the roots of evil and we'll all be happy singing "kumbayaa" in the sunshine.


I think that that is said out of ignorance. The Christians and Muslims have been at each others throughs for centuries before the creation of Israel. Muslims have been beheading people long before the British empire or the creation of the USA. The Europeans have been proactive with almost every world event for the longest time and the US since WWII. I believe that if Israel was not created now the Arab world/Muslim world would be fighting the Spanish and French since, after all, those are Islamic lands.

Islam is an imperialistic religion that sees its justification by imposing its religion on the rest of the world. In there view world peace will be obtained when every world country will become Muslim.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 10:44 AM
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I don't understand some of this...

Have history books been completely pulled out of circulation?

If you think that the problems going on between Muslims and Christians were suddenly "invented" in 1948 with the creation of Israel, then I honestly would like to offer you a gift certificate to the bookstore of your choice to correct this problem.

Israel has nothing to do with the conflicts between Muslims and Christians. These weren't pals before 1948. Look up um... what were those little mini fights called... oh yeah... Crusades?



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 10:50 AM
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Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
Islam is an imperialistic religion that sees its justification by imposing its religion on the rest of the world. In there view world peace will be obtained when every world country will become Muslim.
**

I didn't realize a religion could impose itself on any one. What's next? Chilli dogs? Try..to resist...the chilli dogs. One who follows a certain religion can impose his beliefs on others but to say an entire religion has such an objective is just plain silly.
(**The same can be said about America. You just have to make a few substitutions.)

Change the channel. Read a book. Commit suicide. What does it matter anyway? We're all doomed to follow a particular religion in order to attain world peace. Maybe we're all doomed to follow a wannabe gun totin' cowboy to freedom. Pick a side, boys. We've got no other choice.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 10:58 AM
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One who follows a certain religion can impose his beliefs on others but to say an entire religion has such an objective is just plain silly.


Quite right. It's not an entire religion that is trying to impose its beliefs on others. In fact I would say that the majority of Muslims have no interest in doing so.

However, at the same time we're not talking about one person trying to impose his beliefs. It's a group, and it's a rather large group nowadays isn't it For evidence one needs only to look at the way the Taliban treated the Buddhists of Afghanistan in the pre-9/11 days. There are dozens of other examples like that.

No it's not all Muslims that are doing that. Not at all. But there are groups that do.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 11:02 AM
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Originally posted by Djarums
No it's not all Muslims that are doing that. Not at all. But there are groups that do.


No argument from me.



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 11:09 AM
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a world without israel...

a world with no "war on terror"...

a world with no 9-11...

am i right???





posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 11:49 AM
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Taken from Wikipedia:


A turning point in western attitudes towards the east came in the year 1009, when the Fatimid caliph of Cairo, al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah, had the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in Jerusalem destroyed.



In 1063, Pope Alexander II had given papal blessing to Spanish Christians in their wars against the Muslims, granting both a papal standard (the vexillum sancti Petri) and an indulgence to those who were killed in battle.


Right... before Israel popped up, Christians and Muslims had no conflicts huh? 992 years is an awful long stretch of time to try and ignore.

[edit on 2-25-2005 by Djarums]



posted on Feb, 25 2005 @ 12:24 PM
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Islam is an imperialistic religion that sees its justification by imposing its religion on the rest of the world. In there view world peace will be obtained when every world country will become Muslim.


OK I admit I may nave gone over the deep end with this. Islam as a whole is not such. I do think that there is a great many within Islam that are such. I have ever met some of these types while in college.




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