Mandela Effect and time travel

Everyone who has an interest in ME's on here should know my views on it so there is no point getting into it.
What I would like to discuss however is how physics (specifically time travel) would relate to ME's.

There are basically 3 lines of thought when it comes to time travel into the past. Using the shooting of your grandpa example...

1. It can't be done (Your grandpa's safe)
2. It can be done however you cannot alter the present, the time travel was already part of your present before you left (grandpa's in trouble but he wasn't your real grandpa in the first place or perhaps he never told you about the crazy time traveller with bad aim).
3. It can be done and but only in an alternate reality (grandpa's in trouble but it's dimension X grandpa and not grandpa from your dimension)

I'm no expert and this is massively simplified to my level of understanding so I welcome any corrections. I was reading Greene's book Fabric of the Cosmos today where he discusses these 3 possibilities towards time travel to the past.

So according to my flawed understanding it seems that it is impossible to go back in time and kill your grandpa and have it effect your current reality.

It seems if we wanted to go back in time and less violently change Berenstain to Berenstein there is 3 possibilities...

1. You can't
2. You can't
3. You can but you could never see the change in your reality.

If this is the case which seems to be accepted from a physics point of view then how can we reconcile this with the ideas of the Mandela Effect.

Time Travel into the past is impossible.

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

I subscribe to "you go back in time, and kill your grandpa, that timeline changes, but only from that point forward, the timeline when you were born an decided to go back in time still exists for you, however I think the moment you went back in time you leave that current timeline never to see it again, it goes on without you, your grandpa still alive.

3. It can be done and but only in an alternate reality (grandpa's in trouble but it's dimension X grandpa and not grandpa from your dimension)

The Theory is , that you could. However , the act would split off another universe in which your grandfather was killed and you were never born. In the normal universe you would not have went back in time (paradoxically)

If this is the case which seems to be accepted from a physics point of view then how can we reconcile this with the ideas of the Mandela Effect.

You cannot. The Mandela Effect would not exist as the current timeline would remain intact.

Its called a paradox for a reason

originally posted by: Vortiki
Time Travel into the past is impossible.

There are certainties. Can we travel to those? Ive read stories of natural paranormal time traveling to the past.

originally posted by: Gothmog
The Theory is , that you could. However , the act would split off another universe in which your grandfather was killed and you were never born. In the normal universe you would not have went back in time (paradoxically)

I'm not sure that is the case.
The act doesn't split off another universe.

The other universe always existed with you just being a murderous visitor at one point.

You could argue that if you never went to this other universe there would be no point to it existing however that's a pointless argument as you did go to that other universe (hypothetically).

Also it may be a little conceited to assume that this universe only existed for you to commit murder and the lives of the billions of others there are purely dependent on your travel plans.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
If this is the case which seems to be accepted from a physics point of view then how can we reconcile this with the ideas of the Mandela Effect.

Because the Mandela Effect is a made up excuse to explain a poor memory to people that think the universe revolves around them and they could never be wrong.

Simple.
:-)

a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

Based on my wacky ME, where the Challenger explosion went from 1984 to 1986, the following confusion has happened:

*EVERYTHING* I remember about high school is now just simply *wrong*. Events that I know, and I remember thanks to other, less earth rattling, but local for me personally rattling events also occurred- or now didn't.

The event itself, that I clearly remember, that I remember all the details still, are now in doubt. Sitting in junior high in science class, watching our glacier of a science teacher nearly break his neck to turn the tv on- couldn't' have happened. I was in high school science by then, in a completely different school.

1986 was complete hell for me- parents screwed me over, I went into foster care, and a LOT of various and sundry things happened- that now seems to have been an awful, awful lot to have happened in less than a year and a half. Challenger simply did not. I feel somehow 2 years or so has been tacked on- but I cannot prove any of it (which is a frustration all of its own).

The constant nagging feeling it's all wrong. The whole planet is off. I've had that feeling for quite some time, and as I get older, it gets worse.

I live(d) my life with my age every 10 years falling on a decade year. 1980, 10, 1990, 20, etc etc. It was easy to keep up with stuff that way. Nice mnemonic. Also added to the confusion when I found out when (supposedly) Challenger blew up.

My take on it is this- you wanna go back in time and change the Bears' name- go on ahead. If you've done it willingly, you'll expect things to be off. UNwillingly, things go to hell, and your first thought is "when did I go crazy?!".

Are there people with faulty memories? Sure! But with a faulty memory, unless you're developing some kind of dementia, the thing will always a bit fuzzy, a bit unsure. With these things, people not only remember, it, they remember it in complete and utter detail, because it was an integral part of their lives, like singing song lyrics, or reading the Berensta(e)in Bears habitually.
Or knowing exactly where you were when a massive disaster happened.

We're not jumping into our Deloreans and Police boxes and fiddling with time, we're having to put up with someone who IS.

a reply to: Krakatoa

Fair enough, I'm gonna bite on that.
The only thing that annoys me more than people claiming different realities is people claiming "poor memory".

Both ideas ignore the reality of the situation which I feel can be found within neurology.
It's probably semantics but I much prefer "a trivial side effect of our great memories" than "poor memory".

But the point of this is already getting off track.
My views on the Mandela Effect are irrelevant to this thread.
It is more about seeing if it is possible to reconcile ME's with the current views on physics.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
If this is the case which seems to be accepted from a physics point of view then how can we reconcile this with the ideas of the Mandela Effect.

Because the Mandela Effect is a made up excuse to explain a poor memory to people that think the universe revolves around them and they could never be wrong.

Simple.
:-)

Yes...but I wouldn't call it poor memory. I'd call it normal human memory.

The human brain loves to try to find a pattern or an existing familiarity with almost every piece input it receives. In the process of our brains trying to connect that new input with exiting familiar memories, it sometimes mashes the new input and he old memory together, even if they shouldn't really be mashed together.

The end result is sometimes we have a real memory (real in the sense that it exists in our brain) that isn't in fact real at all, but totally fabricated by our brains.

That isn't "bad memory" per se, but a completely normal aspect of human memory.

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
If this is the case which seems to be accepted from a physics point of view then how can we reconcile this with the ideas of the Mandela Effect.

Because the Mandela Effect is a made up excuse to explain a poor memory to people that think the universe revolves around them and they could never be wrong.

Simple.
:-)

Yes...but I wouldn't call it poor memory. I'd call it normal human memory.

The human brain loves to try to find a pattern or an existing familiarity with almost every piece input it receives. In the process of our brains trying to connect that new input with exiting familiar memories, it sometimes mashes the new input and he old memory together, even if they shouldn't really be mashed together.

The end result is sometimes we have a real memory (real in the sense that it exists in our brain) that isn't in fact real at all, but totally fabricated by our brains.

That isn't "bad memory" per se, but a completely normal aspect of human memory.

I can agree to this explanation. However you define it, the end result is false memory recall. Which simply put is akin to poor memory.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
If this is the case which seems to be accepted from a physics point of view then how can we reconcile this with the ideas of the Mandela Effect.

Because the Mandela Effect is a made up excuse to explain a poor memory to people that think the universe revolves around them and they could never be wrong.

Simple.
:-)

Yes...but I wouldn't call it poor memory. I'd call it normal human memory.

The human brain loves to try to find a pattern or an existing familiarity with almost every piece input it receives. In the process of our brains trying to connect that new input with exiting familiar memories, it sometimes mashes the new input and he old memory together, even if they shouldn't really be mashed together.

The end result is sometimes we have a real memory (real in the sense that it exists in our brain) that isn't in fact real at all, but totally fabricated by our brains.

That isn't "bad memory" per se, but a completely normal aspect of human memory.

I can agree to this explanation. However you define it, the end result is false memory recall. Which simply put is akin to poor memory.

It's a version of the old adage "If everything is "x", then nothing is "x""…
...as in, "If everyone who experiences a false memory has a poor memory, then nobody has a poor memory""

The point being that the baseline "normal" memory can in fact produce false memories -- and by definition if it is normal, then it is NOT poor.

That is to say, if it is normal for our brains to do this to some limited extent, then the people who experience this to that "limited extent" have normal memories. The term "poor memory" should only be reserved for people who have exceptionally poor memories (people whose memories fail more often than this "limited extent").

originally posted by: wylekat
We're not jumping into our Deloreans and Police boxes and fiddling with time, we're having to put up with someone who IS.

I'm trying to keep this thread on track so I will have to skip to the relevant part.
Not to discount your experience but the arguments always tend to be emotional ones bordering on religious arguments. Often ending in "You just don't understand".

Rather than getting into a pointless argument I am curious how you make sense of the implications of such time travel whilst considering what the physics nerds believe.

Do you just disregard the science or have you made attempts to reconcile it?

originally posted by: anotherside

originally posted by: Vortiki
Time Travel into the past is impossible.

There are certainties. Can we travel to those? Ive read stories of natural paranormal time traveling to the past.

Those are just that, stories. You can rewind energy back into physical matter. If you burn a piece of paper into ash, you have used a chemical reaction to release the majority of the papers energy in the chemical reaction and reduce its physicality to ash.

It is impossible to return that energy to the ash to make it be the piece of paper. Backwards time travel would have to do this for literally everything in existance, which the power requires for such a feat would be infinite, as the universe and everything within is also infinite.

originally posted by: Krakatoa
I can agree to this explanation. However you define it, the end result is false memory recall. Which simply put is akin to poor memory.

Do 3D movies work because we have poor eyes?

Or do 3D movies work because it takes advantage of a trivial side effect of our good eyes?

I think that's the best analogy.
ME'ers are people walking out of a 3D movie saying they know that the baseball almost hit them.
None ME'ers accept they think the baseball almost hit them but realise it's an illusion.

originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: wylekat
We're not jumping into our Deloreans and Police boxes and fiddling with time, we're having to put up with someone who IS.

I'm trying to keep this thread on track so I will have to skip to the relevant part.
Not to discount your experience but the arguments always tend to be emotional ones bordering on religious arguments. Often ending in "You just don't understand".

Rather than getting into a pointless argument I am curious how you make sense of the implications of such time travel whilst considering what the physics nerds believe.

Do you just disregard the science or have you made attempts to reconcile it?

In order to do a comparison which is needed for reconciling anything, you must first have solid evidence of this. All there is to this point are human memory inconsistencies. That is not enough to do a valuable comparison, so reconciliation is therefore not possible yet.

It is a non starter right now.

The only practicality, other than incorrect memories, is some form of quantum engtanglement through time. However, I dont believe quantumly entanglung a sibgle particle and manipulating it would have such a degree of change as is seen in ME.

Physics doesnt pick and choose, its laws affect us all equally. If something about physics changes something, it shouldnt be affecting only some of us. If it was an event that was due to physics, i.e. time travel, we would all be affected. If you want to approach this from a scientific view, throw time travel out the window. Its more likely that multiple paralell realities are colliding with one another than someone messing about in time.

a reply to: Krakatoa

You don't need solid evidence to discuss the pros and cons of a hypothesis.
If anything solid evidence would make this thread pointless.

I was kinda hoping that people could look at the ME hypothesis and seriously contemplate how it would effect our current understanding of physics.

Rather than the bickering back and forth, let's just start with the premise that ME's are a real timeline changing phenomena and then we can delve deeper into the realities and consequences of that.

To me that seems a bit more productive than the usual mockery (of which I thoroughly enjoy taking part in) that comes with all the other ME threads.