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Mandela Effect and time travel

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posted on Jun, 18 2018 @ 10:57 AM
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a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

True. The overall point I was trying to make is that if you tell some MEers that their memory of an event or fact may be a false memory, some of them immediately retort "Are you calling me stupid or saying that I'm delusional?!!"


But I'm not calling them stupid or delusional at all; I'm calling their false memories "normal". I'm simply saying that false memories are a normal aspect of normal human memory.

Someone who has a false memory of Nelson Mandela dying earlier than 2013 is not stupid. There are valid reasons (e.g., he was extremely sick and very frail while in prison, which was one reason he was released) why a person having at least average intelligence, with a completely normal memory, and a good grasp on reality (not delusional) might have this false memory of Mandela dying sometime prior to his actual death

edit on 18/6/2018 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)




posted on Jun, 18 2018 @ 11:06 AM
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The real issue arises from the lack of quantifyable data. Everything ME related is anecdotal at best. The experiences are personal, yet seem to affect a conglomerate of people on the same topics.



posted on Jun, 18 2018 @ 11:10 AM
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a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

Totally!!!
You're preaching to the choir here.

I argue with "Poor memory" people more than "the effected".
They are both wrong and do nothing but empower each other as both have clear flaws.

I'm convinced 100% that it's solved with neurology and your explanation matches mine. Our need to fit things or to find patterns as you said earlier comes down to the neural pathways that are created each time we learn something.
I've said before that I don't believe anyone but the most autistic haven't experienced ME's.

Of course saying neurology answers ME's is just as productive as saying biology answers creationism.
The debate is pointless, I'm more curious about understanding WHY the other side thinks what they do.

Unfortunately this is a religious argument and I might just have to accept that "I just don't understand".



posted on Jun, 18 2018 @ 11:16 AM
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a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

3.

I remember some tech guy said that if you would time travel back in time.. that would create a new timeline.
So basically time traveling also crate infinite timelines.
So in this timeline we would see the traveler disappear never to be seen from again.. and no changes in history.



posted on Jun, 18 2018 @ 11:17 AM
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a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

I fail to see how its a "religious" argument. It also doesnt just cover names and logos of things either. I was an adamant studier of the pineal gland, which is in an entirely new location than what I had studied.

I find it very difficult to believe that Im just misremembering the placement of the pineal glabd whilst I was studying it. Of course, like everything else ME releated, its anecdotal and not quantifyable data. Which is why it is so easy to chalk it up to misremembering information.



posted on Jun, 18 2018 @ 11:25 AM
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originally posted by: Vortiki
The real issue arises from the lack of quantifyable data. Everything ME related is anecdotal at best. The experiences are personal, yet seem to affect a conglomerate of people on the same topics.


The argument some MEers use is that "if multiple people have the exact same memory, then how could it be false?"

However, we humans all mostly get the same inputs from the outside world around us (from the news, pop culture, etc) and we each have the same type of memory/same type of brain. Therefore, many people can be affected by false memories in the exact same way.

Let's go back to the Nelson Mandela dying prior to 2013 issue:
People who around in the 1990s remember from the TV news his plight in prison and the fact that he was old and frail and (to some extent) near death. That image of him being sickly and frail, plus all the talk in the TV news of him needing treatment or else he might die, is a pretty good reason why a relatively large percentage of people might have the exact same false memory of him dying prior to his actual death in 2013.


edit on 18/6/2018 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2018 @ 11:27 AM
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originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: Gothmog
The Theory is , that you could. However , the act would split off another universe in which your grandfather was killed and you were never born. In the normal universe you would not have went back in time (paradoxically)


I'm not sure that is the case.
The act doesn't split off another universe.

The other universe always existed with you just being a murderous visitor at one point.

You could argue that if you never went to this other universe there would be no point to it existing however that's a pointless argument as you did go to that other universe (hypothetically).

Also it may be a little conceited to assume that this universe only existed for you to commit murder and the lives of the billions of others there are purely dependent on your travel plans.


The questions were asked and I answered using current theories of Theoretical Physics and the Multiverse.
Do some research on the 11 (12?) dimensions .

And , just by you mentioning it , you have just split off a universe (multiverse perhaps) where I have murdered my on grandfather and lives of billions have depended on my travel plans.

See how easy it is.



posted on Jun, 18 2018 @ 11:33 AM
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originally posted by: Vortiki
a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

I fail to see how its a "religious" argument. It also doesnt just cover names and logos of things either. I was an adamant studier of the pineal gland, which is in an entirely new location than what I had studied.

I find it very difficult to believe that Im just misremembering the placement of the pineal glabd whilst I was studying it. Of course, like everything else ME releated, its anecdotal and not quantifyable data. Which is why it is so easy to chalk it up to misremembering information.


I would say It's religious not in the manner that it has anything to do with God/gods, but rather it becomes a question of people who believe ME is caused by shifting timelines and/or alternate realities do so because of blind faith.

They don't look at it from a logical, critical thinking, clinical perspective in order to try to figure out why they might have a false memory, but instead they rely on their faith that ME MUST be a result of alternative realities, because what else could it be?

I don't want to speak for Krahzeef_Ukhar, but that's how I would classify it as "religious". It's largely faith-based.

Arguing the existence of God with a person who has strong faith in God is useless; they will also fall back on their faith and ignore any logical argument you may have. Similarly, it is nearly impossible to change the mind of an MEer whose has a strong faith in the idea that ME happens because of alternate realities/timeline shifts/CER/whatever. They tend to ignore even the best logical explanations that don't support their pre-conceived ideas.


edit on 18/6/2018 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2018 @ 11:42 AM
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a reply to: Soylent Green Is People

That is a fair assesment. I cannot fathom HOW I misremember particular things that are apparent MEs, but I would have to agree that it is more practical and probable that people are misremembering things vs some sort of hijynx



posted on Jun, 18 2018 @ 11:43 AM
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a reply to: Gothmog

Fair enough, I could easily be wrong.
Perhaps my deterministic viewpoint is clouding my understanding.

Personally I'm not a fan of the many worlds interpretation (which doesn't impact it's possible truth whatsoever).
Does that mean that every attempt to kill my relatives creates 14 billions of years of history prior to my arrival?



posted on Jun, 18 2018 @ 11:45 AM
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I just popped in to say ....Mandela Effect....cuckoo cuckoo...... "insert looney tunes here"



posted on Jun, 18 2018 @ 11:48 AM
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originally posted by: Quadlink
I just popped in to say ....Mandela Effect....cuckoo cuckoo...... "insert looney tunes here"


Thanks for your constructive addition to the subject of discussion.



posted on Jun, 18 2018 @ 11:49 AM
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originally posted by: Soylent Green Is People
I don't want to speak for Krahzeef_Ukhar, but that's how I would classify it as "religious". It's largely faith-based.


Can't argue with that.



posted on Jun, 18 2018 @ 12:46 PM
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originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar

originally posted by: wylekat
We're not jumping into our Deloreans and Police boxes and fiddling with time, we're having to put up with someone who IS.


I'm trying to keep this thread on track so I will have to skip to the relevant part.
Not to discount your experience but the arguments always tend to be emotional ones bordering on religious arguments. Often ending in "You just don't understand".

Rather than getting into a pointless argument I am curious how you make sense of the implications of such time travel whilst considering what the physics nerds believe.

Do you just disregard the science or have you made attempts to reconcile it?


I am aware of the implications of what time travel might do. I also have tried, on my own level to simply untangle the mess I found myself in. I gave up, because it simply does not make sense chronologically.

However... we do not *have* people who have done actual time travel- like say, astronauts on the moon or sequencing the human genome- all public and stuff, and we have absolutely no idea the real world implications of an action such as time travel would do. We have no real world data, we have no charts and graphs of so much as a particle being sent backwards, we got nothing. We have scientific theory, but those can be wrong in the face of actual data.

What if the more unexplainable MEs *are* the results of time travel? How would we know?? And good grief, what if it's just a smaller symptom of a larger problem? I described my event, because that is as close to something of that magnitude I've ever experienced. I got nothin'. All I can do is describe it.



posted on Jun, 18 2018 @ 01:18 PM
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a reply to: wylekat

A good question would be "Why would there be residue?". That is to say, if there really were some sort of alternate reality/time shift that caused past historical events to change, why would there be people who remember the "old" way?

If some time traveller (or whatever) caused Nelson Mandel to live longer than he did in another timeline, why would people have a memory of the other timeline in which he died earlier?



posted on Jun, 18 2018 @ 01:33 PM
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originally posted by: wylekat
What if the more unexplainable MEs *are* the results of time travel? How would we know?? And good grief, what if it's just a smaller symptom of a larger problem? I described my event, because that is as close to something of that magnitude I've ever experienced. I got nothin'. All I can do is describe it.


That's the point I'm trying to make.
According to (my possible misunderstanding of) our best minds if ME's are the results of time travel the physical evidence which does exist in peoples neural pathways wouldn't be possible.

I do understand the feeling. Most ME's work on me, however I am curious about your challenger memory.
How did your teacher know to almost break their neck to turn the TV on?
It doesn't seem to make sense.

Is it possible that you saw 1 of the 3 Challenger launches that happened in '84 with Mr Glacier and then mixed that with your memory of watching the '86 one?



posted on Jun, 18 2018 @ 01:47 PM
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originally posted by: Krahzeef_Ukhar
Is it possible that you saw 1 of the 3 Challenger launches that happened in '84 with Mr Glacier and then mixed that with your memory of watching the '86 one?


That would be my potential explanation for his false memory. A memory of Mr. Glacier in 1984 doing something with the TV to watch some other event unfold might have been similar enough to watching the Challenger explosion that his brain was borrowing information between the two separate memories form 1984 and 1986, which might have resulted in a false memory that linked the Challenger disaster to Mr. Glacier fiddling with the TV.

In fact, I think something similar to that is the genesis of many ME cases (and when I say "ME" I mean the effect in general of people having different memories of a past event or fact -- NOT the idea that alternate realities are to blame for those differences).


edit on 18/6/2018 by Soylent Green Is People because: (no reason given)



posted on Jun, 18 2018 @ 02:23 PM
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a reply to: Krahzeef_Ukhar

ME has nothing to do with time travel.

Resolved.



posted on Jun, 18 2018 @ 02:50 PM
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Well not really anything is traveling in time. basically time is the making of conscious decisions in an N-dimensional space.
In that space nothing really moves. It's the observer (who is not part of the n-dimensional space) that selects reality.

With Mandela there is some q-entanglement between decision trees in the N-dimensional space. Branches overlap so to speak. I think this is because physical reality is created by algorithms and processes information not unlike in a game simulation.

Example :

Let's assume you change a texture inside a game then every instance of gamedata that was saved is also changed.

This is because the information of the texture is independent from the gamesave data.
Gamesave data tells how to recreate a gamestate but doesn't contain the actual texture. Even if gamesave data was created before the change in texture that gamesave data will always create a gamestate that matches the current version (with the updated texture).

Compare this game example with Mandela.

1 Gametime is the runtime of the game (time analogy)
2 A change in texture (ME effect analogy) changes all the gamesave data (memory) even gamesave data that has been saved before the texture change (Like ME is timeless , everything changes in an instance).
3 The only one that remembers the change is the outside observer in this analogy the player (like hey that texture wasn't that different ?)

4 Mandela effects seem to reflect original (in this example older states) if a human factor is involved (like art,translations,cartoons). in this
example mandela is the updated texture. Not a single object in the gameworld would reflect the 'old' that is by the player remembered. But the player does not misremember , his/her memory is independent of the gamesave/gamestate.

See it a bit like Prima materia creates all the other forms of matter in the old Alchemy theory. or like in programming instanciating of objects that are created in runtime by the constructor method.... (that is in this analogy an algorithm that plays out physical reality).

...
edit on 6182018 by frenchfries because: problems with translation corrected



posted on Jun, 18 2018 @ 03:10 PM
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a reply to: frenchfries

Or it's just that normal human memory can be a complicated and screwy thing.

Each memory is not a separate exact recording of an event or fact, but rather the brain spreads memories around, borrowing existing pieces of old memories in order to find a suitable home for new memories. In doing so, perhaps the brain can sometimes associate a new memory with an existing memory, "infecting" the new memory with pieces of the existing one.

No time shifts or alternate realities required.




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