California woman forces Border Patrol off Greyhound bus at agricultural checkpoint

originally posted by: Whoisjohngalt
a reply to: NarcolepticBuddha

Why not raid businesses and arrest the owners that are hiring illegal labor? Oh, thats right ,$$$$$$$$$$
Nope. Instead we rush towards being a police state.

No its because business's will be only fines until congress increases penalties. Currently First offenders can be fined $250-$2,000 per illegal employee.
For a second offense, the fine is $2,000-$5,000 per illegal employee.
Three or more offenses can cost an employer $3000-$10,000 per illegal employee.


So guess what its cheaper for busineases to pay fines if caught. And with the number of agents used in raids unless they have a large amount of illegals its not worth it.

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Whoisjohngalt
a reply to: NarcolepticBuddha

Why not raid businesses and arrest the owners that are hiring illegal labor? Oh, thats right ,$$$$$$$$$$
Nope. Instead we rush towards being a police state.

No its because business's will be only fines until congress increases penalties. Currently First offenders can be fined $250-$2,000 per illegal employee.
For a second offense, the fine is $2,000-$5,000 per illegal employee.
Three or more offenses can cost an employer $3000-$10,000 per illegal employee.


So guess what its cheaper for busineases to pay fines if caught. And with the number of agents used in raids unless they have a large amount of illegals its not worth it.

But yet we waste money prosecuting low level drug offences. If it takes sending an ICE agent to a business every day until that place is bankrupt then thats what it takes.

a reply to: links234

Is there a credible news source to back up the facebook post? Video? Photos? Even an audio recording?

Sorry not trying to get my news from facebook.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: NarcolepticBuddha

You have shingles, that sux...

a reply to: NarcolepticBuddha

If the investigating officers have no probable cause other than the perceived race or ethnicity of the people being investigated, then they have no probable cause. Unless they have specific knowledge that specific individuals in a vehicle are undocumented, or a specific vehicle is carrying people without permission to be in the United States, then there is no probable cause at all. Outside of a constitution free zone, that crap does not fly, regardless of the justification for it.

a reply to: links234

The thing is most folks here would not put up to random show your papers please, infringing on your 4th

The Fourth Amendment (Amendment IV) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights that prohibits unreasonable searches and seizures. It requires "reasonable" governmental searches and seizures to be conducted only upon issuance of a warrant, judicially sanctioned by probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, particularly describing the place to be searched and the persons or things to be seized. Under the Fourth Amendment, search and seizure (including arrest) should be limited in scope according to specific information supplied to the issuing court, usually by a law enforcement officer who has sworn by it. Fourth
en.m.wikipedia.org...

Many of you same detractors only care about the 2nd , no matter that's all that matters.

There shouldn't even be a 100-mile zone around the borders to begin with.

The Constitution doesn't say 'except for those 100 miles around the border' anywhere.

The Constitution does say:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Requesting a Driver's License when someone who is driving is reasonable. Requesting it from passengers is not.

Requesting 'your documentation' is also not reasonable. You are not required to give more than your name without a warrant.

a reply to: Greven

And in order to have a warrant, the authorities must name the individual, or the property or vehicle to which that warrant applies.

Checks and balances for the win!

This is a good story about a brave woman.

If citizens do not assert their rights, they will not survive.

In many cases, even those who assert their rights are rolled over by the goons of government.

originally posted by: TrueBrit
a reply to: NarcolepticBuddha

If the investigating officers have no probable cause other than the perceived race or ethnicity of the people being investigated, then they have no probable cause. Unless they have specific knowledge that specific individuals in a vehicle are undocumented, or a specific vehicle is carrying people without permission to be in the United States, then there is no probable cause at all. Outside of a constitution free zone, that crap does not fly, regardless of the justification for it.

They are allowed to ask questions and depending on the answers will determine if there is suspicion. Border patrol actually take classes on how to spot illegals its part if their training. It could be simple clues like clothing or hair style or body language.

This was upheld by rhe supreme court so alot of leway is given. Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada, the Supreme Court upheld state laws requiring citizens to reveal their identity when officers have reasonable suspicion to believe criminal activity may be taking place. Commonly known as “stop-and-identify” statutes, these laws permit police to arrest criminal suspects who refuse to identify themselves.

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha

originally posted by: links234
Source

“This is a violation of your 4th amendment rights. You don’t have to show them *s- -t*!!! This is illegal,” she said, according to her Facebook post.

ICE has been terrorizing Hispanic and Latino communities for years but, to me, it seems they've ramped up their "enforcement". Between detaining legal residents and American citizens until they can determine their status to pulling over buses full of people to do 'random' checks.

Good!


Sorry, but illegal search and seizure doesn't apply to friggin' ILLEGAL NON-CITIZENS!!!!!

Actually. Yes it does.

originally posted by: Krazysh0t

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha

originally posted by: links234
Source

“This is a violation of your 4th amendment rights. You don’t have to show them *s- -t*!!! This is illegal,” she said, according to her Facebook post.

ICE has been terrorizing Hispanic and Latino communities for years but, to me, it seems they've ramped up their "enforcement". Between detaining legal residents and American citizens until they can determine their status to pulling over buses full of people to do 'random' checks.

Good!


Sorry, but illegal search and seizure doesn't apply to friggin' ILLEGAL NON-CITIZENS!!!!!

Actually. Yes it does.

Oddly your both right how often does that happen? Yes illegals have thr same rights as anyone else. Bit since being here without documentation isbin itself illegal opens them up to search and seizure see previous post.

Let's all get checked, a loophole would be closed, after all TSA checks everyone. I wouldn't mind because I'm a Citizen. Making it as difficult as possible to navigate through the US for illegals, would go a long way in reclaiming our Country from freeloader invaders.

originally posted by: Plotus
Let's all get checked, a loophole would be closed, after all TSA checks everyone. I wouldn't mind because I'm a Citizen. Making it as difficult as possible to navigate through the US for illegals, would go a long way in reclaiming our Country from freeloader invaders.

You'd love 1930ts Germany or 2018 DPRK.

originally posted by: dragonridr
Commonly known as “stop-and-identify” statutes, these laws permit police to arrest criminal suspects who refuse to identify themselves.

That isn't the same as providing a piece of documentation, all you are required to provide is your name. If you don't have a license there wouldn't be anything to even cross reference that with.

originally posted by: NoCorruptionAllowed

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha

originally posted by: links234
Source

“This is a violation of your 4th amendment rights. You don’t have to show them *s- -t*!!! This is illegal,” she said, according to her Facebook post.

ICE has been terrorizing Hispanic and Latino communities for years but, to me, it seems they've ramped up their "enforcement". Between detaining legal residents and American citizens until they can determine their status to pulling over buses full of people to do 'random' checks.

Good!


Sorry, but illegal search and seizure doesn't apply to friggin' ILLEGAL NON-CITIZENS!!!!!

Actually it does apply, since the illegal search has no way of discovery of the people's status in the first place without acting outside their legal capacity. Breaking the law to find out if there are illegals on the bus isn't an argument that Border Patrol can justify anything with. This bus incident is like the Gestapo in 1944 Germany,.
Which is why they retreated from the bus and let them continue. But they would have gotten away with that huge abuse of authority if that woman hadn't called them out on it. Imagine all the junk they do that they haven't been caught at..

When there are any authority doing things like this they are enemies of all Americans. You can't be their Pal and defend them because you will be next on their list.

how do you feel about DUI checkpoints?

Constitution free zone ?well soon the whole country will be a constitution free zone .
Am I the only one who sees this Oxymoron ? Your free except when we say your not .
what the heck constitution free zones lol wow Illegals is it ? lord god dont worry soon they will not want to come here once this country is even more oppressive then the one they live in they wont be in such a hurry to leave i .


Every one should be happy I live in a tourist town and many many who are forian swear they will never come back .
and word is getting around .

originally posted by: NarcolepticBuddha

originally posted by: links234
Source

“This is a violation of your 4th amendment rights. You don’t have to show them *s- -t*!!! This is illegal,” she said, according to her Facebook post.

ICE has been terrorizing Hispanic and Latino communities for years but, to me, it seems they've ramped up their "enforcement". Between detaining legal residents and American citizens until they can determine their status to pulling over buses full of people to do 'random' checks.

Good!


Sorry, but illegal search and seizure doesn't apply to friggin' ILLEGAL NON-CITIZENS!!!!!

you're as smart as those officers... and they got off with their tails between their legs head down....

you should tell them that the Constitution only applies to us citizen. i wonder why no one thought of your genius..? by the number of stars, other bright users and 'knowers of the law' whom definitely studied it, they all agree with you.

So I got a lot of backlash from my post.

What I gather from it is this--border patrol isn't allowed to patrol the border because it violates constitutional rights.

Umm..pretty sure police are allowed to detain anyone at anytime. Good luck telling them otherwise.

California woman had to get out her google translator to tell the Spanish speaking passengers.

So did the patrol have probable cause to detain the bus? I'm sure they did.

Heck, I'm thinking about this all wrong!

I should just become a Greyhound driver and smuggle illegals for a hefty fee knowing some California will scare away border patrol.

Quite the lucrative venture!