if you had proof of a god , would you actually worship it ?

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
reading a chance remark - prompted the thought process .

just as a hypothetical - lets assume that you discovered [ or were shown ] credible proof that " a god " actually existed - it may [ or may not ] be the same god that is worshiped by your current cult . what would be your response [ and why ]

i will post my response later [ its pre-written - and i vow not to edit it based on replies ] - but i want to see what other people think of this - without the influence of reading my version

let the fun begin

PS - please read the premmise carefully - every word is carefully chosen

Stephen Fry has an excellent take on it.



The chances of any Creator being any less selfish than any of us, is rather slim. So you would basically deal with an all-powerful upper manager or boss.

It would be a hard sell for that Creator to get any reverence from intelligent, confident individuals with more sense of self-worth than the self-effacing submissive nature of the ultra-religious.

a reply to: ignorant_ape

Yes, when Jesus returns, I will worship him. Even before then.

originally posted by: EasternShadow
A God? Since when do you believe in Monotheism? Come on noonebutme. Make up your mind.

Since when did I state I believed in one or more Gods? I never have. I think you're not reading English properly.

a reply to: Woodcarver

I already told you that Einstien.

originally posted by: Blue Shift

originally posted by: Ruiner1978
However, again apparently, we decided to know good and evil and it all went to # from there.

Some people would prefer to be pig ignorant and happy, I guess.

Lol what do you mean some people?
ALL people would prefer that, evidently.

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Ruiner1978

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
Going back to the OP question, if an all knowing god was shown to be proven then why would I even bother pretending to worship it? It would surely already know I thought it was a barbaric monster. Pretty crap god if it needed me to tell it.
"Yeah, carry on eating your popcorn mate while you watch children starve to death, prick"

Lol
Well apparently there was a time when we existed in paradise.
All the food we could eat (apart from the fruit from that one tree over there).
We didn't even need clothes the weather was that nice.

However, again apparently, we decided to know good and evil and it all went to # from there.
Adam suddenly thought his ding ding was too small, Eve wasn't happy with the size of her hips. God wasn't happy about this either.
There was a lot of blame shifting, "oooo the serpent tricked me, ooooo the women talked me into it" instead of someone just taking responsibility for their own # up.
As a result, the serpent's got no legs, Eve needs pethidine when squeezing one out and we gotta toil the land for food!


Now, I don't know about anyone else, but if I started questioning God about starving children I'd imagine his response would be something like:
"WTF you on about? I had it all set up nice. You wanted something else so I let you have at it. Left you to it. Now tell me, what did you personally, and you as humanity as a whole do about those starving children?"

We can't have it both ways can we?
Or can we?



DISCLAIMER: Not a belief. Just a train of thought

That’s not a train of thought, you just wrote down genesis and claimed that’s your opinion. You are literally trying to pass off genesis as an original thought that you just had. That is true indoctrination. Congratulations!! You are fully assimilated into the hive.

I made no such claim of opinion.

Try harder Woodcarver.


What kind of scientist are are you, what's your field?

a reply to: ignorant_ape

as promised my pre-written answer : [ it assummes that the god is one that currently has a active cult ]

first - no i would not worship it . any mmy reaction to it would be in a single word :

contempt

i would feel pity for its cultists - who despite having a real god - have fared so poorly from thier devotion

that ends the pre written bit

the thread replies have certainly been " interesting " - despite how few seem to have comprehended the OP

i shall respond to some of the " best " later

originally posted by: noonebutme
Since when did I state I believed in one or more Gods? I never have. I think you're not reading English properly.

You always argue, how monotheist reject various other gods. Yet when I brought up polytheism, you brought up how A God is being unfair to you. So what is it that you're thinking? You can't view things like this. I already pointed out polytheist view life differently compare to monotheist.

originally posted by: Ruiner1978

originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: Ruiner1978

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
Going back to the OP question, if an all knowing god was shown to be proven then why would I even bother pretending to worship it? It would surely already know I thought it was a barbaric monster. Pretty crap god if it needed me to tell it.
"Yeah, carry on eating your popcorn mate while you watch children starve to death, prick"

Lol
Well apparently there was a time when we existed in paradise.
All the food we could eat (apart from the fruit from that one tree over there).
We didn't even need clothes the weather was that nice.

However, again apparently, we decided to know good and evil and it all went to # from there.
Adam suddenly thought his ding ding was too small, Eve wasn't happy with the size of her hips. God wasn't happy about this either.
There was a lot of blame shifting, "oooo the serpent tricked me, ooooo the women talked me into it" instead of someone just taking responsibility for their own # up.
As a result, the serpent's got no legs, Eve needs pethidine when squeezing one out and we gotta toil the land for food!


Now, I don't know about anyone else, but if I started questioning God about starving children I'd imagine his response would be something like:
"WTF you on about? I had it all set up nice. You wanted something else so I let you have at it. Left you to it. Now tell me, what did you personally, and you as humanity as a whole do about those starving children?"

We can't have it both ways can we?
Or can we?



DISCLAIMER: Not a belief. Just a train of thought

That’s not a train of thought, you just wrote down genesis and claimed that’s your opinion. You are literally trying to pass off genesis as an original thought that you just had. That is true indoctrination. Congratulations!! You are fully assimilated into the hive.

I made no such claim of opinion.

Try harder Woodcarver.


What kind of scientist are are you, what's your field?

I went to school for civil and structural engineering. Later on i studied material analysis. There are only a few people in my area that do this, so i will not post my title, but basically i look at materials and test their efficacy for specific projects. Things like structural density, tensile strength, load capabilities, and sometimes material identification, or material quality.

I also used to train show horses, and i still do a lot of wood working.

Did you want to hire me? I can build you some cabinets or I can tell you if your diamonds are real.

a reply to: ignorant_ape
I know already it pointless, even if God prove his undeniable proof. There are always reasons not to have faith in God. It's happen long ago since YHWH first appear to Abraham.

I now think eternal hell is justify punishment. But then again, I believe God is forgiven and merciful. Worry no more, if eternal death you seek, then eternal death you shall have. Your soul will be destroyed the moment you die.

Rest in peace my child.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Woodcarver

I already told you that Einstien.

Oh, i must have missed that, please repeat.

originally posted by: EasternShadow
I believe God is forgiven and merciful.

Yeah right, while it eats popcorn watching children starve to death. Your alleged god is a barbaric monster in my opinion.

originally posted by: EasternShadow
a reply to: ignorant_ape
I know already it pointless, even if God prove his undeniable proof. There are always reasons not to have faith in God. It's happen long ago since YHWH first appear to Abraham.

I now think eternal hell is justify punishment. But then again, I believe God is forgiven and merciful. Worry no more, if eternal death you seek, then eternal death you shall have. Your soul will be destroyed the moment you die.

Rest in peace my child.

apperhently, The best way to convert people to your religion is to remind them of the eternal suffering as a punishment for not believing.

a reply to: Woodcarver

I don't believe it to be true. Just hadn't yet seen anyone discussing the implications of man being god or god being an individual. I am not sure it is possible to prove or disprove something like this and that is the fatal flaw with the challenge.

I mean, even if you got to the point you were somehow conversing with an entity who could hold the entire earth in his hands, unaffected by the supposed heat, vacuum, coldness, lack of oxygen and inhospitality of space, there would be nothing that makes him a god and for all we know tens of thousands could exist if there is one of them. And if such a being were able to snap his fingers and make whole planets or stars appear, who would know if it were a god or even a real being at all? It could just as likely be an avatar of sorts of a nerd with glasses taped at the nose bridge wearing a pocket protector who is sitting at a computer just a couple decades more advanced than our own playing a Sims type video game, a kid or teenager even. Would he be our god if that's the case? If he has a god would that be our god even if the nerd at his computer created and controls our world? Why would he or wouldn't he fit the average persons definition of what a god is?

And as I am almost certain it will be proved within the lifetime of people already alive today, as the theory goes, if it turns out that we could simulate a universe on a computer, then suddenly the chances become one in a million that we are real beings living in the real world with just the tiniest fraction of a possibility that any given living thing in any universe selected at random is a being living in the real world, the base universe that started the chain of all the others.

And I am certain that in such a case if the concept of god exists in other universes too that someone out there who is playing with a simulation has identified himself to his creation as their god and rewards and punishes based on if his created beings worship him or not and possibly even created a concept of dying and moving the "sims" to a heavenly or hell like afterlife afterwards. Does he not fit everything that all the religions consider god to be? Or is it because he uses a mouse and keyboard to create and not magical powers to? What if his technology allows him to work his simulation by mere will of thought, would he then be what you consider a god? Would his actual god and he just be what the nostics call yeoldeboth (sp?) or the demiurge? What if all life is simulated with the circle being completed by a simulation which simulates the original simulation cuz, as time may not exist in the grand scheme of things it would be possible that a simulation ended up being created just so it could create its creator???

Again, without outlining exactly what we would need to observe in a "god" to satisfy your definition, its no different than being asked to prove if happiness exists or evil. I could easily answer that if evil meant ill will but if most ill will comes from say greed and not a force of simple evil, it becomes too abstract and unanswerable without a defining check list of requisites.

originally posted by: AlexandrosTheGreat
a reply to: Woodcarver

I don't believe it to be true. Just hadn't yet seen anyone discussing the implications of man being god or god being an individual. I am not sure it is possible to prove or disprove something like this and that is the fatal flaw with the challenge.

I mean, even if you got to the point you were somehow conversing with an entity who could hold the entire earth in his hands, unaffected by the supposed heat, vacuum, coldness, lack of oxygen and inhospitality of space, there would be nothing that makes him a god and for all we know tens of thousands could exist if there is one of them. And if such a being were able to snap his fingers and make whole planets or stars appear, who would know if it were a god or even a real being at all? It could just as likely be an avatar of sorts of a nerd with glasses taped at the nose bridge wearing a pocket protector who is sitting at a computer just a couple decades more advanced than our own playing a Sims type video game, a kid or teenager even. Would he be our god if that's the case? If he has a god would that be our god even if the nerd at his computer created and controls our world? Why would he or wouldn't he fit the average persons definition of what a god is?

And as I am almost certain it will be proved within the lifetime of people already alive today, as the theory goes, if it turns out that we could simulate a universe on a computer, then suddenly the chances become one in a million that we are real beings living in the real world with just the tiniest fraction of a possibility that any given living thing in any universe selected at random is a being living in the real world, the base universe that started the chain of all the others.

And I am certain that in such a case if the concept of god exists in other universes too that someone out there who is playing with a simulation has identified himself to his creation as their god and rewards and punishes based on if his created beings worship him or not and possibly even created a concept of dying and moving the "sims" to a heavenly or hell like afterlife afterwards. Does he not fit everything that all the religions consider god to be? Or is it because he uses a mouse and keyboard to create and not magical powers to? What if his technology allows him to work his simulation by mere will of thought, would he then be what you consider a god? Would his actual god and he just be what the nostics call yeoldeboth (sp?) or the demiurge? What if all life is simulated with the circle being completed by a simulation which simulates the original simulation cuz, as time may not exist in the grand scheme of things it would be possible that a simulation ended up being created just so it could create its creator???

Again, without outlining exactly what we would need to observe in a "god" to satisfy your definition, its no different than being asked to prove if happiness exists or evil. I could easily answer that if evil meant ill will but if most ill will comes from say greed and not a force of simple evil, it becomes too abstract and unanswerable without a defining check list of requisites.

I agree, any sufficiently advanced technology would appear to us as magic. But if i can’t tell the difference or even see the stuff, or know if it is even going on, then it matters very little, or not at all. But if i met this pocket protector wearing, glasses pushing, nerd, you described, and he snapped a planet into existence before my very eyes, i would likely be sufficiently impressed. The likelihood of that happening though? Leaves me overwhelmingly under impressed.

originally posted by: Woodcarver
apperhently, The best way to convert people to your religion is to remind them of the eternal suffering as a punishment for not believing.

Nah... It just waste space and time. Spoiled souls are spoiled. It's already proven that it will not change anything. Better destroyed them all and start new ones.

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy

originally posted by: anotherside
My hypothetical God is yahweh. A true understanding father of ages and written word.

Yeah cool god who watches children die of starvation. Your god is a barbaric animal in my opinion, if it actually even exists as some all powerful entity.

its not about being able to interact. If you were a being of all time. How would you proceed?

originally posted by: EasternShadow

originally posted by: Woodcarver
apperhently, The best way to convert people to your religion is to remind them of the eternal suffering as a punishment for not believing.

Nah... It just waste space and time. Spoiled souls are spoiled. It's already proven that it will not change anything. Better destroyed them all and start new ones.

So basically you are condoning killing everyone who disagrees with you?

originally posted by: ignorant_ape

just as a hypothetical - lets assume that you discovered [ or were shown ] credible proof that " a god " actually existed - it may [ or may not ] be the same god that is worshiped by your current cult . what would be your response [ and why ]

If sharing of my metaphysical energies in form of prayer or worship was requested by the perceived GOD to be used to support and help the WHOLE* of which we ALL make up to become better for all life then possibly yes.

If sharing of my metaphysical energies in form of prayer or worship or even sacrifice was requested by a perceived God to be used to control & manipulate others into deception / slavery, keeping us ALL* behind overall then possibly no.

The exterior form or body taken of said GOD would not determine my choice, for THE I believe has and can take on various forms throughout existence.
I recognize THE based on activities shown not by form or shell taken.

NAMASTE*******

originally posted by: Woodcarver
So basically you are condoning killing everyone who disagrees with you?

I condone giving what you wish. Permenant death to your soul. Since you don't believe in soul anyway, it does not matter.