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if you had proof of a god , would you actually worship it ?

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posted on May, 23 2018 @ 08:46 PM
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originally posted by: Jobeycool
Why do atheist have the worst concept and dumbed down arguments about God and Faith and the Bible.......Like morality goes through their head and the screaming back and fourth with believers and atheist goes into a constant revolving door of I’m right no I’m right.....This makes the case that someone has to be telling the truth....I will pick God instead of no God..Therefore you only make the case stronger of Faith by constantly bickering over it.
A guy named Ray Comfort who approaches strangers proves we are all guilty of this.....Only way to solve it is repenting to Christ and forgiving each other.....Geeee that is what Jesus said to do.


Only way to solve what?

I would think it is far more likely if a Creator exists (God) it needs a heck of alot more healing forgiveness and repair than most individuals do.




posted on May, 23 2018 @ 10:24 PM
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originally posted by: Woodcarver

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: Woodcarver

Nah it's your merry go round carver.
You ride it. I find childrens rides very
boring.
What does this comment even mean? You have not even tried to be part of the conversation for weeks.


You know.



posted on May, 23 2018 @ 10:28 PM
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So? When are you gonna post your answer you takes about? I am curious now and I don't believe you posted it already and I missed it....



posted on May, 23 2018 @ 10:28 PM
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So? When are you gonna post your answer you takes about? I am curious now and I don't believe you posted it already and I missed it....



posted on May, 23 2018 @ 10:29 PM
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Wow, this is such a sad discussion....... i weep for the future of humanity seeing the EXTREME ignorance/lack of knowledge in what used to be a christian nation.... we USED to be educated....

as for "proof of God", there are several "proofs"...

one of the best is the fact that God knows the end from the beginning.... 25% the bible is comprised out of prophecy which all of it has come true 100% of the time. there are several cities overthown where God said what would happen.... if you had any real knowlege of history, this would knock your socks off... you could spend months going over the history the bible predicted outside of the books that use symbolism/picture words(like Daniel and Revelation)

Most people have no idea what the sacrificing of the animals was about..... everything with this service and the holidays God gave to the jews in 1400 bc with moses POINTED to what jesus and the apostles would do in the future.....

for example... God told the people to confess their sins to a lamb, and at a certian time on a certian day(passover) they would kill this lamb.... well, jesus who paid the penalty for my sins, went to the cross and died... like a lamb going to the slaughter.... and jesus died at the exact time the high preist was raising the knife(read the gospels)... the symbolic lamb excaped in the earthquake and veil ripping that happened at the exact moment jesus died.

after passover the very next holiday was a few days later, you would go out to your farm and cut some grain and wave it before the temple... it was to be a happy celebration... the harvest of the first fruits...
well, when jesus died, the graves were opened, and quite a few of the saved were raised from the dead and went into town and preached that jesus was in fact the messiah... well , jesus ascended to heaven on resurection sunday(he made a statment that he hasnt yet seen the father.. later that day, that task was done..) it is assumed those resurected during the earthquake went to heaven with jesus and were presented to the father as they were the first fruits of the harvest(with the full harvest being pictured in revelation as the 2nd coming)

Again i could go on and on with each jewish festival.... the jewish festival of pentacost was fulfilled when the Holy spirit was poured out on the apostles... each festival was in itself a prophecy of what would happen in the future, and they were to complete these rituals as a reminder to keep before their minds what was to come.


lastly you have the symbolic books of daniel and revelation... these books use basically picture words... anyone whose studied the bible and had 4th grade world history can easly understand these books... revelation consists of 404 verses, and 275 of them are repeated elsewhere in the bible(usually with the meaning of the symbol used in revelation). Once the proper symbol meanings are plugged into revelation, it tells the history of the world long past when it was written....

IF THERE WAS NO GOD, how did the bible predict the french revolution in the late 1790's?(this prophecy was super cool... and very accurate)

in 600bc(the book of daniel) God outlines the rise and fall of bablon, med-persian empire, Greek empire, roman empire, the fall of rome to the 10 barberian tribes... the pope being responsable for wiping out 3 of these germanic tribes on his rise to power.... the pope's rule over europe for 1260 years and the loss of his kingdom in 1798 AD.

revelation details rome being responsable for christ's death, and after jesus was gone, rome turned it;s attention to persicuting the church... that when rome would fall, its seat of authority would be given to the pope, the pope's would rule for 1260 years...(points you back to daniel) and during the 1260 years, real christians were persicuted, chased to a new place in the earth(pilgrims) and the place where the real christians were chased to is where the final world power rises up( yes its talking about america... the lamb like beast rises up out of the earth, has no crowns on its horns(no kings like the european powers)... sadly the bible states this last world power would play policeman to the world and align itself with the vatican and european powers..... so look for a uniting of false christians and an enforcement of false Christianity at the end time.
heck, revelation 17 details the last time the world is divided into 10 kingdoms... we know it today as the NWO where the world is divided into 10 economic "kingdoms" by the pope"s think tank)publised in the late 1960's... and yes the world is in fact following this plan... google the european union, african union, south american union, asian union, north american union, ETC, you get the point... there are in fact 10 of these divisions laid out in the plan by the "club of rome" , and its being followed just as the bible stated 2000 years ago, and the Pope has no idea what he is doing...

Prophecy is absolute proof God exists and that he DOES in fact live outside our understanding of time...

Mt sinai is known to be in saudi arabia... and the entire peak is burned black from God's presence.... everything from the story is also there...

we also have physical proof... sodem and gomorah and the 3 other citis of the plain all got burned to ash.... leaving behind balls of sulfer(known as brimstone or burning rock in the bible) burried in the ground at each site... modern scientists look at these sites and say theres no proof a city was there because what ever was there was burned to ash
sadly this is how they get around this discovery.

Sadly people are very biased, and a majority of those in charge of our universitys are communists.... all someone needs to do is watch the past 100 years of comminist plans(read books like the naked communist) there have been plenty of people who have infiltrated communist meetings and detaild their plans....

Goal #1 for destroying America and overthrowing our nation is to remove God from our nation.... Lenin himself stated this was necessary to defeat america... the communist also know that a free country can only exist where the people believe in God and follow his law. for a "free" government run by athiests will cheat and steal the freedoms away from the people. its human nature, and its easy to see today in the Godless leaders we have today selling us out to the highest bidder. A true christian knows he will be held accountable in a much higher court than any in our land for his actions if he were to try and secretly cheat the people he ruled over.

and for the ignorant folks who claim God is some evil being for letting bad things happen. the bible tells the story that there is a war going on. and since adam sinned and joined satans rebellion, satan is rulling over our world. daniel and even jesus both state that satan is the prince of this world. and keep in mind that Gods own son was killed when he came here.
The war is about Gods right to rule. Satan wanted to be the 4th God head and to be worshiped (which is forbidden in commandment #1) so he started this entire rebellion in heaven eventually getting 1/3 on his side. God could have wiped them out, but then people would fear him. God has no choice but to let sin play out to let the whole universe see what happens with an entire planet (earth) when people indulge in sin. This experiment with sin is to only last 6000 years and its over in our life time.



posted on May, 23 2018 @ 10:38 PM
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a reply to: teddyvetter

Now you've done it.

I have an old saying for you
that I just made up.

A thread of trolls is a
thead of lost souls.



Excellent post
edit on Rpm52318v44201800000052 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 01:17 AM
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originally posted by: EasternShadow
That is not what I meant by "being unfair to you".

Then word your replies in proper English. This is why you have a lot of rebuttal from people - you don't know how to reply without re-wording someone's post into something it never said. You do it intentionally in order to illicit a negative response.


What I meant was, in your opinion, god is unfair for allowing bone cancer to children. Is that right?

No. I don't think it's "unfair". I think, if there is a God, he's a complete sociopath and an utter ass*ole.

The Christians claim everything is 'part of His plan' when question why X or Y happens. WHat part of his plan is it to allow cancer in children? Or allow children to be abused by people who purport to do His work in His name??

Thats one of my arguments against why I disbelieve the claims there is a God. I, as a lowly human being, would do everything in my power to save a child's life or protect a child from harm. God does not. And if God is meant to be 'all love' and 'all caring' -- what does that say?

As for 'unfair'. Life isn't fair. It never was and never will be. So I don't claim it's 'unfair'. And THAT makes sense. THAT is why children get cancer and sadly get abused. Because there is no ultimate supervisor, no supreme parent to look after us.

It's just us. In my opinion.
edit on 24-5-2018 by noonebutme because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 01:22 AM
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originally posted by: teddyvetter
one of the best is the fact that God knows the end from the beginning....

You cannot claim to know the mind of God. No one can. Unless you can prove it. Just as I cannot prove what you are thinking, or what you thought about on 10th June 2014, neither can you claim to know the mind of God now or 2000+ years ago.


25% the bible is comprised out of prophecy which all of it has come true 100% of the time.

Ok, so this is one of THOSE posts. Sure, ok. None of that statement is factual. It's your opinion.

You can't use the Bible as evidence for God. The bible cannot be proven to be the word of God; it's an ancient book of stories and was 'edited' (read:made up) around 1604.



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 05:41 AM
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originally posted by: noonebutme
Then word your replies in proper English. This is why you have a lot of rebuttal from people - you don't know how to reply without re-wording someone's post into something it never said. You do it intentionally in order to illicit a negative response.

I thought our entire argument is based on opinion and I know very well you don't believe in God, therefore you should understand any reference to you was not intended for you personally, but your opinion and your view on matters. Apparently I was mistaken. So I hope in future, every comments I make, you should not take it as direct reference to you in person ( I get it you don't believe in God ), but your subject. I apologize I did not clarify earlier.


originally posted by: noonebutme
No. I don't think it's "unfair". I think, if there is a God, he's a complete sociopath and an utter ass*ole.

I could sense burst of negative energy from your writing. Are you angry?


originally posted by: noonebutme
The Christians claim everything is 'part of His plan' when question why X or Y happens. WHat part of his plan is it to allow cancer in children? Or allow children to be abused by people who purport to do His work in His name??

Thats one of my arguments against why I disbelieve the claims there is a God. I, as a lowly human being, would do everything in my power to save a child's life or protect a child rerotfldfrom harm. God does not. And if God is meant to be 'all love' and 'all caring' -- what does that say?

Those children deserve better life elsewhere. Just let them go. There is no need to prolong their suffering.

Fatal diseases, abusement, accidents and many others are just causes of death. Death is neither rational nor sympathic. Unless you cease your resentment towards things you can't control, you will never find peace.

Just accept death happen anytime and anywhere. More importantly, this deceased children are in safe hand and nothing could harm them anymore. They will get all the love and protection they can't get in this world. It will be much easier for parents to move one.
edit on 24-5-2018 by EasternShadow because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 06:19 AM
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Nature, the universe we live in is beautiful, but only if there is no intelligence behind the creation of it. Without a creator, the universe is teeming with life finding a way to survive and succeed despite a hostile environment, it's is a story of struggle and hardship and overcoming that hardship against all odds.

Add a creator and instead we have a universe designed to make suffering the status quo, designed to pit living thing against living thing, and enforce this rivalry through the suffering of hunger and loss. It's a story of unnecessary suffering, a story of a malicious being who saw fit to create life, with thoughts, feelings, emotions, the ability to feel pain and suffering, and create a system that used those feeling against those same beings in order to pit them against each other to temporarily escape the suffering He has placed upon them. Not only has he pitted them against each other, which was bad enough He created "natural" disasters to occasionally arbitrarily screw these beings over for no reason, regardless of what they do or how they behave.

Any being that would purposely create the universe as it is, is clearly a being a pure unrestrained evil, who clearly delights in the suffering of others, as this universe creates little else, and the only beauty comes from overcoming the horrors and finding what light one can for as many as possible despite all odds against you.

If there is a God, no I would not worship it, I would rightly fear, hate, and despise said being, and if I were to find proof of such a being, it would be source of endless nightmares, as I would then know how I'm even more royally #ed than I was when things were just a fluke. At least with the fluke I knew the source of suffering was not purposeful and malicious. Add a sentient being and well, that means it's all intentional, and no being that would do that has my best interests at heart.



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 06:33 AM
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originally posted by: Ruiner1978

originally posted by: CornishCeltGuy
"Yeah, carry on eating your popcorn mate while you watch children starve to death, prick"

Lol

Now, I don't know about anyone else, but if I started questioning God about starving children I'd imagine his response would be something like:
"WTF you on about? I had it all set up nice. You wanted something else so I let you have at it. Left you to it. Now tell me, what did you personally, and you as humanity as a whole do about those starving children?"

We can't have it both ways can we?
Or can we?

Rejecting good advice will produce a bad result .
Reality is the product of choices .
The unseen hand fights the unseen enemy .
God can be your best friend , ...
or your worst enemy .

He prefers the friend thing tho
and so will you .





posted on May, 24 2018 @ 06:33 AM
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originally posted by: EasternShadow
I could sense burst of negative energy from your writing. Are you angry?

Nope.


Those children deserve better life elsewhere. Just let them go. There is no need to prolong their suffering.

"Just let them go", huh? I take it you're not a parent or have children of your own.


Fatal diseases, abusement, accidents and many others are just causes of death. Death is neither rational nor sympathic. Unless you cease your resentment towards things you can't control, you will never find peace.

I agree and I do fully accept that, hence why I say, "Life isn't fair" and no where is it written otherwise. But often the argument Christians or people of faith say while defending the obvious obliviousness of their God is, "He willed it so" or it's "Part of his plan".

What sort of 'thing' or intelligence wills pain and suffering onto another living being out of love and kindness? In humanity, we call them socio or psychopaths.


More importantly, this deceased children are in safe hand and nothing could harm them anymore. They will get all the love and protection they can't get in this world. It will be much easier for parents to move one.

How do you know that? What possible way could you comfortably say that is a true and accurate statement?

if there is a God and it's all about love and life, then none of that makes sense. Punish the wicked, fine. Punish children?? What the hell is that about?

And what happens to these children? WHat are they doing? Are they in heaven? If so, for how long? What do they do for eternity?

None of it makes sense if there is a supreme God.

However, the absence of any type of God or supreme being and we're at the mercy of the unfairness of 'life' in general? That makes perfect sense why all this sh*t happens.
edit on 24-5-2018 by noonebutme because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 06:43 AM
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a reply to: radarloveguy

I read everything you post as I find it.
Your thoughts are valuble here.



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 07:01 AM
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a reply to: noonebutme




What sort of 'thing' or intelligence wills pain and suffering onto another living being out of love and kindness? In humanity, we call them socio or psychopaths. 


What sort of intelligence sees suffering only
as his will? When it is more likely a
consequence of our actions. Why are you
so quick to blame. Your argument fails
logic because you can not prove a greater
good isn't possible thru all the suffering.

If I choose to send you a letter bomb
and some kid gets a hold of it. How
in the hell does God get blamed are
you daft?

edit on Ram52418v11201800000024 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 07:10 AM
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originally posted by: randyvs
What sort of intelligence sees suffering only as his will?

The sort that would grant 'miracles' to people but deny the safety and wellbeing of children.


When it is more likely a consequence of our actions. Why are you so quick to blame.

Because the arguments are for/against the belief in a supreme God. My argument that your claims are false is, besides your lack of evidence, that the existence of such a being is illogical in the face of all the pain and suffering that this God apparently alleviates at his will, when he wants and how he wants. Which, specifically, seems to not include children.


Your argument fails logic because you can not prove a greater good isn't possible thru all the suffering.

If you mean "Randyvs logic" then yes, no one's logic will pass. Nothing sane, rational or intelligent could ever pass through the mind of Randyvs.



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 07:14 AM
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a reply to: noonebutme




If you mean "Randyvs logic" then yes, no one's logic will pass. Nothing sane, rational or intelligent could ever pass through the mind of Randyvs.


No it's a fact that ruins your argument

"The problem with evil" look it up

Time to run away and hide


edit on Ram52418v26201800000032 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 08:14 AM
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a reply to: randyvs

The weather is our actions? Random diseases? Birth defects? Genetic disorders? Random animal attacks? Damage to the brain which changes our behavior against our will?

You cannot give God credit for all things good while simultaneously writing Him a blank check for all things bad that are clearly His responsibility.
edit on 5/24/2018 by Puppylove because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 08:15 AM
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a reply to: noonebutme

And what if (s)he favors free will for all of us over the suffering of a few? All the pain and suffering are prety much the result of poor choices most of the time, other peoples poor choices.
Which is why you can't expect us to take up that narrow, and utterly materialistic, perspective on this dimension when some of us have a hunch regarding the 4th.
Actually, we even have more than a hunch.
edit on 24-5-2018 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)

edit on 24-5-2018 by PublicOpinion because: (no reason given)



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 08:17 AM
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a reply to: noonebutme




Because the arguments are for/against the belief in a supreme God. My argument that your claims are false is, besides your lack of evidence, that the existence of such a being is illogical in the face of all the pain and suffering that this God apparently alleviates at his will, when he wants and how he wants. Which, specifically, seems to not include children


Not in this thread.



posted on May, 24 2018 @ 08:20 AM
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originally posted by: Puppylove
a reply to: randyvs

The weather is our actions? Random diseases? Birth defects? Genetic disorders? Random animal attacks? Damage to the brain which changes our behavior against our will?

You cannot give God credit for all things good while simultaneously writing Him a blank check for all things bad that are clearly His responsibility.


Oh but I can and I do. You lack faith I do not.

He is my Father. You seem to have daddy
issues.

I love him and am thankful for the air that I
breathe. You love yourself and appreciate
nothing.

I am his soldier and you will be defeated.
But only for your own good.

Tell me how it makes any sense to ban him
from existence in our schools. And then turn
and blame him when they produce mass
murderers? You can't have it both ways.

edit on Ram52418v06201800000026 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



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