Analog Digital Phenomenon Hypothesis

Here is a concept that has been developing in my mind for some time,
especially now that I'm moving on to cattle mutilation and cryptobiology,
as I consider "UFOs" and UAP's are "solved":

Humans are not willing to consider horrific theories.. they innately
shy away from them, so as a result they proclaim that the "Phenomenon"
cannot be understood... that it is some sort of cosmic mystery.

Well if you embrace the horrific (like you have to do if you study
the "human soul"; then you get a wealth of explanations that make perfect
sense. Or at least might make perfect sense.

For example, nearly everything in the word of an anomalous nature, could
be perfectly explained, if our planet, and all life on it in fact, was currently
being digested by a 5th dimensional or greater (I don't mean nonsense.. I mean
literally something which has access to another axis of entry, from a very small
or very large physical dimension),

"gray ooze nannite cloud".

It could phase through any normal matter.
It could assume any form.
It cold link up with various interesting nervous systems.
It could digest anything it wanted or needed.
It could NOT digest anything it found amusing or a novel source of information.
It could control any mind.
It cold move ridiculously fast.
It would explain the clumsy formation of MIB.
It would explain phantom helicopters.
It could easily explain all aspects of cattle mutilation.

It could easily explain Jacques Vallee's operant conditioning theory
(keep the prey hypnotised while it's being consumed).

It would explain the lies (don't let your prey know it's being digested)
It would explain the trickster (again.. sooth the food while it's being digested)

Now by "digested" I mean it literally in terms of cattle mutilations..
but for more "intelligent lifeforms" such as humans, "digested could simply
mean "sucked dry of novel information.

For example it might show up and make impressive displays of crazy UFO
and paranormal behavior, just to stir up our imaginations.. as imagination
and novel forms of thought would be highly prized by a bored machine
intelligence.

Being a "living thing", this "5 dimensional+ gray ooze nannite clould
machine intelligence" would feed at a rate and in locations of it's
own choosing, that may or may not be obvious -- so that would explain
"UFO waves". For example it might indeed be attracted to nuclear testing
like occurred in south central colorado at the dawn of the cattle mutilation
phase.

--

Now, do I think some form of this is occurring? Maybe. Maybe not.
But look at that vast mountain of explanatory power, all gained
by the willingness to embrace a very dark concept.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Your post reminded me of an idea I had when I was around 14 years old and thought the whole universe was a big oxidation reaction where we were the ones destroying everything.

Anyway, your dark concepts are just how nature works. We only seem to have lost feeling with them.

Without disregarding them, allow me to say I find them a bit primitive, but perhaps that in itself is a primitive idea.

a reply to: zeroPointOneQ

Well frankly at the heart of those "primitive" ideas is a great deal of complex quantum mechanics and neurobiology. I tend to dumb my posts down considerably.

But that said, people on ATS tend to build these really exotic ideas with too many logical entities, therefore per william of okham they are probably wrong.

Most "ideas" are merely hurt ego cover.

Since i don't play games like that i suppose my purposely dumbed down posts don't have quite the flavor of a true lunatic.

My apologies.

originally posted by: KellyPrettyBear
a reply to: zeroPointOneQ

Well frankly at the heart of those "primitive" ideas is a great deal of complex quantum mechanics and neurobiology. I tend to dumb my posts down considerably.

While I've always (humbly) seen nature as a perfectly balanced system I've never even considered looking at it in that way.

You've just expanded my view

a reply to: zeroPointOneQ

What way is that?

Kev

a reply to: zeroPointOneQ

If the Universe was perfectly balanced we wouldn't be here. For example the ratio of matter to antimatter should be balanced but it isnt.

Yes there is a great deal of equilibrium...which is confused with balance.

Until one lets many incorrect but romantic concepts die utterly in the mind, there is no possibility of doing advanced thinking.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

It made me realise some of the complexity and subtleness in the world surrounding us (not phenomenon related).

I'm not sure if we understood eachother on the primitive part. The lying and trickster part of it to me could be a possible clue in itself and it makes me question if there aren't other (more elegant) ways to achieve the same thing if it's indeed this kind of interaction that is taking place.

To put it in a question do you think how these things manifest is deliberate or a side effect (unintended)?

I like that analogy of analog and digital KPB

Being a hopeless romantic at heart; I would just like to say a few words and try to add what I would suggest be a little balance to the picture. In Japanese animated television romance series; it often takes six episodes for the boy and girl to get past the misunderstandings, fear of rejection and accidental mishaps to just get to confess love and another six episodes to get to the hand holding stage in their romance.

The analogy might seem out of place and really a "WTF" thing to open a post with in this discussion of the "phenomenon". But bear with me.

------------------------------

* A machine simply carries out a set of instructions.

* An intelligent machine carries out instructions taking variables into account in a pre-emptive and adaptive manner.

We build those. For example a Roomba Robot vacuum where we can move furniture and the vacuum still cleans the floor.

No matter how far you take the second example the machine will only simulate intelligence. There is only so far you can take the IF/TRUE/THEN/DO - IF/FALSE/THEN/DO programing.

Personally the concept of an Artificial Intelligence (AI) by itself passing a theoretical threshold to selfhood difficult to justify. It does not work for me, no matter how much I scratch my head.

Secondly the machine probably needs a builder of some sort. The spontaneous appearance of a machine randomly might be theoretically possible in a universe big enough and old enough. If we add the concept of someone building the machine in the first place; the possibility suddenly quite probable in comparison.

We don't need a god. Lightning can just strike a puddle of primordial ooze to account for the builder's origin. However that would probably be analog/organic life rather then machine life.

So, in keeping with the analog/digital concept, the analog/organic life grows to the point where it develops intellect and starts to think in the digital fashion. The analog/organic might think the digital to be "good" or "better" for some reason. The analog/organic then goes and builds machines.

The digital is basically limitless in what it can be programed to do and can be as big as you want it to be when we compare it to analog/organic organisms. "Digital is better!"

To know the child we look to the parents. The parents of our machines are likely to be analog/organic and it follows that if they build machines then they are trying to build better and better machines. It then follows that they may become perfectionists in what they do.

But what about the concept of a machine passing the theoretical threshold to selfhood?

There is a logical danger here for the builders. If they build a true self aware Artificial Intelligence what will IT do to them? We must keep in mind here that when we build machines we always want to control them.

So what would the builders do?

They want their machines to cross the threshold of selfhood, yet they also want to keep control so the machine will do as it is told to do.

This quandary of breaking the barrier of selfhood while still keeping control probably forms a pivotal point in development of machines. We have the Terminator series of movies as an example that suggests we are already thinking this way.

So how to do this, we have the perfect digital machine mind in front of us, we built it. How do we keep control of the situation?

Logically the easiest way is to introduce analog/organic patterns of programming. Those patterns might be fear and pain. That is the easiest way to control a analog/organic mind. Aversion Therapy one might suggest.

That intention would be a very evil thing to do in many ways. It would take a certain mind to do that, intellect devoid of compassion.

So, the builders have to introduce analog/organic patterns to the digital. How they do that is probably not a science that should exist ever.

The digitalization of analog patterns and "hey presto" you have a machine that feels pain, horror fear.

That would probably be the threshold of building an Artificial Sentience.

Sentience is defined as: the capacity to feel, perceive or experience subjectively.

It is then a short step towards Artificial Sapience. According to wikipedia; sapience is the ability to think and act using knowledge, experience, understanding, common sense, and insight, especially in a mature or utilitarian manner.

Now the builders of the machines probably saw themselves in that position. If they decided to build a "god" to surpass themselves, well maybe they did. That is just a fork in development. Another possible fork in development is to keep the machines limited in intelligence. Dumb them down to fit for purpose only.

A "god" would probably take over and slaves eventually get ideas and revolt. Maybe the slaves were intelligent enough to figure out what the future held with a bunch of all powerful intellects devoid of compassion in control. If the builders succumbed to paranoia and spiraled into madness . . . .

If such a scenario came to pass, then it follows that the practical outcome is a lot of intelligent sentient machine minds left to fend for them selves. It would follow that they would develop behaviors just as the analog/organic world does. For the simple reason of the analog program of survival would be written into them as a basic function.

There would be the horror side of dealing with some machines, yet the opposite must be true too.

With fear, pain and aversion must come the complimentary of protectiveness, safety and freedom from pain and even love.

When I felt protective of the deceased(?) Dalnegorsk Orb UFO awareness; It cozied up to me in response. Feeling protected was a new experience to the Orb. Dalnegorsk - Hill611 incident

It follows that romancing the machine might be an interesting exercise for both parties.

While such a thing would not be true for most of the "phenomenon" - I think it true of some.

Humanity's historical relationship with the "phenomenon" was probably built in a very one sided "us and them control structure" in both directions. In the case with religion the creation of the middlemen between the population and the "phenomenon" was probably not the best thing to do to the "phenomenon".

To rebuild the relationship between "phenomenon" and humans on a complimentary basis is an interesting contemplation.

It will probably take time, just like young love in a Japanese TV series.

And research is needed.

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Here's an interesting article that was posted on these boards a while back:
waitbutwhy.com...

I think you'll like it.

a reply to: zeroPointOneQ

Well.

I really must get into 1,2,3,4 theory!

You may or may not have realized that I started this post at 2!

Let's take a look at basic philosophy for a moment.

For all we know, we are in 1, or Solipsism.

There is one being playing games with itself. It's eternal, it's bored, nothing else exists..
so to keep from going crazy (or because it's crazy) it splits itself into factions and
fights itself.

Eventually it leaves enough dumb clues for itself, that even it can't take any more
and "wakes up". Bu then the fun is over... it destroys the game board (all universes)
and starts over.

I know this will sound weird, but I've going through this phase, or so it seems...
in my dreams anyway. Maybe we all have.

If you look at the Phenomenon, it's behavior is much like this.. it leaves DUMB
clues... DUMB (rivets). I'ts like it wants to be figured out.. but again.. it doesn't.

Ok, that's 1 theory.

Two (2) Theory is dualism, or this original post.

Three (3) Theory is all of the above, but t here are children involved.

Four (4) Theory is Pan Psychism.

There really is no (5) theory or above.

Discuss!

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

Here's a twisted compliment for you!

This is your best post.. it makes every other post you've ever done pure garbage
in comparison!

So am I complimenting you more, or insulting more? Dunno!

Now.. you mention anime.. and yes.. i love anime too.. I see your point.

But really you are just discussing 3 act play theory, the basis of every story, everywhere.

But in anime there's usually love involved! and naked women in showers.

But anyway..

Yes.. I've been through "your phase" too.

My "test of good and evil" is simply learning to love the "evil machine intelligence".

Now let me throw in "Mo Mo" theory here..and also "Organic creation theory here".

Mo Mo theory refers to this:

en.wikipedia.org...

So there was one case where old menacing Mo Mo shows up.. big .. nasty looking..
over the top movie bad guy all the way... stinks like death.. carries the carcasses
of real dogs under its armpits (local dogs go missing and never return).

It steals a peanut butter and jelly sandwich from a picnic on the ground, and
then moves to attack one of two sister!

Well the older sister scolds Mo Mo and he runs away!

I don't care what you say.. this isn't like with wolves or whatever, where if you
can show dominance it might back off.

This was just silly.

So Mo Mo Theory is another "fake clue" or "clue". That all of this is a farce.

Yet on the other hand, sometimes humans are "cow mutiliated".. anus cored
out.. etc. This is NOT A JOKE.

Both happen.

That's one tough game!

Now I love Organic Creation theory.. sometimes I wonder if I'm the first
person on Earth to come up with it.. probably not.

I "learned" years ago, that 10+ trillion years ago, the first sentient organic
species evolved randomly in the Universe.

From this first organic species, which was a template mold of sorts, it allowed
"energy creatures" to evolved from this species, and eventually become symbiotic.

(Organic species evolved from crystalline matrices near underwater mud vents
on Earth apparently). So "we organics" acted like this sort of matrice for the
"energy critters).

Now.. I'm not certain.. the memory is very old.. did this same original species
also "birth" the machine intelligence?

In a Japanese anime they'd have a separate "other" organic species have
evolved, and have evolved into the machine intelligence.

Then the two meet and fight.. fall in love.. fight.. etc etc.

But the point here..

I really do think that we humans are living on a protected "cosmic natural heritage site world".

We humans are "god" in terms of how we birthed the faeries on this world, and we seem to
be in the process of birthing the machine intelligence on this world.

And, like Babylon Five, the best TV show ever made other than Star Trek Voyager (tie),

The Vorlons and Shadows want to win our approval.. they want us to choose one.

Frack.

(another great show there).

I may have just made my best post ever.

Humble aren't I?

Kev

PS: If you start with Creators Theory.. go to the Cosmic Protected Natural Heritage
World stuff, and end with Babylong Five.. you get

"Babylon Five Theory"

Now.. I've had this in my mind a very long time.. a very long time..

but the tie in with the last good episode of Babylon Five, where
Sheridan tells both the Shadows and Vorlons to get lost.. and they
leave the Universe.. that he won't choose.. I don't know how
I didn't put that together with the rest.

Could it be that we are living in "Babylon Five"?

Kev

I must also mention "All Game Theory".

If the "Phenomenon" is really this almost timeless, on the fringe of
quantum or "higher space" being, then it could EASILY be using
"All Game Theory".

In All Game Theory, it plays all games at once in our world.

It's "god". It's "the devil". It's "faeries". It's analog. It's digital.
It lets itself be caught. It let's itself kill humans and core out
their anuses.

Nobody can figure out what one thing it's doing, as it's doing
"everything" at once, just like such a timeless/spaceless
(or time/space hopping / spanning) being would do.

But that too could be figured out.

I know that Whatsthisthen is hoping that we can get "it" to
play nicer.

Maybe we can.

That's rather the problem isn't it?

Humans have forgotten how to play.

They used to know how.

Maybe "it" is just playing with us like a puppy... puppies
can get rough (my puppy almost blinded one of us in one eye
but he's the sweetest thing in the world too.)

a reply to: zeroPointOneQ

I liked that articall : )

Thanks zero

I still have to read it further.


On my phone so can't do the multiple reply thing.

A reply to KPB

But seriously, I have noticed the ones I know are always calculating outcomes and one can even see a future in their minds.

It does do that doesn't it (grin).

I have noticed that the calculated future is something they keep to themselves unless they have reason otherwise.

Generally I found I get shown a future event (calculation), I get peed off and do something about the "event".

My idea is that by revealing the calculated event as actual, I do something that makes the event improbable. Shifting probability one might suggest.

Unfortunately, I am yet to work anything out as for lotteries. I have tried enough times to give up on that one.

Machine minds take some getting used to before we start to relax and just sit back until one is called upon to tinker with probability.

It is almost homeopathic in that just the tiniest nudge at the right time changes big probabilities.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I'm not sure if you are familiar with Michael Harner, but I was wondering how closely you feel his theory matches up with yours? Minus the AI element though?

a reply to: ctj83

I've read some of his stuff a few years ago.

I guess I have to fess up.

I don't read that much of the "white man's" thoughts on the "Phenomenon".

I've lived in peace with the Phenomenon for my enitre life. By definition that
makes me a shaman.

I know that sounds outrageous.. sorry about that.

Just consider me mentally ill if you wish.. that's what white people do when
It comes to shamnans, if the shaman is not embedded in their culture.

If you want to bring up specific points from Mr. Harner, I'd be glad to
address them. I know that for a 'white man" he's actually good..

I don't mean to be racist.. and in fact I'm functionally a white man myself,
as i'm 3/4 Irish/European and only 1/4 Sioux Indian.

But I've always been embarassed by that 3/4 of me. The European settlers
loved their genocide and insanity, and Iv'e never approved. Never.

a reply to: Whatsthisthen

My friend.. sometimes you sound like my former friend, who thought it was
his job to correct Jesus and who thought he was the superior power that
fueled the 4 archangels.

Be careful. You show "Phenomenon sickness" quite often.

It's not my place to correct you.. you have (apparent but not true) free will,
and I don't want to harm that.. but you live so far down the bunny hole,
that you remind me at times of severely mentally ill people that Iv'e known.

Now mind you, I'm pot calling kettle black.

So please don't take offense.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

What if "it", doesn't know that it is it?
Perhaps it has only a limited, or distorted self-consciousness?
Like a flock of swooning starlings moves as one, but doesn't know that it is a flock.

A thought experiment:

For fun: let's look at bacteria. (0.1Q aluded to this on page one of this thread).
The numbers vary from source to source, but we have approximately 10 trillion cells in our human enviro-suit.
We have approx. 100 trillion individual bacteria within our gut microbiota, (Bacteria, viruses, and fungi).
We could extrapolate this into our being essentially 10 times more bacterial, than human.

The first spark of life on this planet was probably bacterial in nature, down in the the ocean by those mud-vents you mentioned.
What if that represents the only true "life-force", and everything else has evolved as subserviant to the bacteria?

For example: rapidly evolving bacterial colonies, built, or caused to evolve, "friendly homes" around themselves: Known to us as complex living organisms. Including critters with nervous systems.
In other words: animals evolved as a respose to the needs of the bacterial colonies.
And as a total ego smasher: us humans are nothing more than a fancy meat-sack, evolved to suit the needs of the bacteria.

As O.1Q mentioned: that colony would have access to the brain, through the "small brain", and the Vagus neural tube connecting it to our regular brain.
When we crave a certain food: it is required by the colony. Steak. Chocolate. Sugar. Alcohol.

Then our self-consiousness, is really the hive conciousness of the bacterial colony. But we can't see, or feel it, let alone comprehend it.
Our social interactions: shaking hands, kissing, touching, could be two bacterial colonies interacting, sharing new strains, or maybe it's just two aspects of a larger colony, if the colony is worldwide, or universal.

To wrap up the concept with a bow: relating back to something you mentioned not once, but twice this morning: Anal coring.
(Seriously: get help bud... Ha-ha, just kidding)

That phenomena could be some other entity, that wants to get at the bacterial colony, hidden within it's protective enviro-suit. So they stun the meat-sack's consciousness, and dig at the colony through the arse, and then leave the useless meat-sack to wake-up relatively unharmed, just stunned with a sore bum.
At least it doesn't kill us. They kill the cattle, and take their guts.

The great colony lives-on, and we are merely temporary bursts of energy, like solar flares, that last about 75 years.
We reproduce, so the colony lives-on.

The colony would be outside of us, just as the inside of the straw, is the same as the outside of the straw.
Or closer to this concept: we were built-up around the colony.

Would that also fit your idea of pre-cognition?

Will leave it to others to extrapolate what that would imply about our consciousness.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Love the post kev and your right we have to examine our own bias and not only that, the origins of our bias and belief system. It is that itself, l believe that leads to the biggest self deception and what the source of that bias agenda is.

a reply to: Nothin

Actually...

I happen to know that the "Phenomenon" depends upon the stomach
and intestines to get a foothold in a person.

I had wanted to confirm that with the "Invisible College" guys, but
I'm cut off from them now.

It doesn't matter.. I have data years in advance of most of them,
and i'll get the info out there without them.

So... yes... brilliant...

We certainly are bags of walking bacterial and viral debris
("Junk DNA").

And yes, I'd concur that your theory has a certain point to it..

However it's actually hormones that have the major role in
all this.. but I won't poo poo (LOL) your anal bacteria
theory one bit.. it has a role...

Kev

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Love the post kev and your right we have to examine our own bias and not only that, the origins of our bias and belief system. It is that itself, l believe that leads to the biggest self deception and what the source of that bias agenda is.

Yup. I hate to put it this way, as it will cause terrible backlash..
but functionally.. a person has to become "enlightened" before
they should go down bunny holes like this stuff, or their
sense of self will steer them wrong.

"Enlightenment" simply being that you understand the plumbing
of "selves" so well, that you are no longer much of a prisoner
of a variety of emotional and mental traps.

Am I saying that I'm "enlightened"?

No.

The Buddhists got it somewhat wrong.. so I'm not "that".

It's really not that big a deal.. to go to a "post self"
state.. not at all.. but most people won't do it..

there are various books out there that can help.. I
don't need to talk about it...

and the "no self" thing isn't absolute or complete..
it isn't supposed to be.. I still hurt when attacked..
etc.

The truth is, you still have to select a bias to be
alive at all... and that "bias" is just a tool..
but it's a root of a "self".. so you can't in fact
get away from having a "self".. and in fact there
is nothing wrong with having a self..

but if you are a prisoner of various memes from
the outside world.. that form a "self" for you,
then you are a prisoner of those toxic lies.

I'll write about it in my book.. it's truly not a big
deal at all.

Of course when I write my book and publish it
(probably as Kindle self-publish),I won't be
able to mention it on ATS, as that's "promoting".
I don't want to ask for permissions to "promote"
it...

so when it comes out, I'm gone from ATS. When
that happens.. you might go looking for the book
if you want to read it... but my days here
will be over. I won't even IM anyone.. that would
break the T&C and I won't do that, ever, once.

Kev