Can we define what the 'Deep State' actually is and what it is not?

originally posted by: agenda51
a reply to: nwtrucker

No it does not exhist.

What are you going to do with the fact that those behind the facade have admitted many times what they are up to?

Never mind the fact that numerous highly intelligent leaders all throughout history disagree as well...

John Kennedy, George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, Teddy Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, Benjamin Disraeli, Charles Lindbergh, Fletcher Prouty, just to name a few.

Everyone of them were convinced that there is a very secretive group in control...

There is far too much correlation going on for it to be otherwise.

“Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people. To destroy this invisible government, to befoul the unholy alliance between corrupt business and corrupt politics is the first task of the statesmanship of the day.”— Theodore Roosevelt, 26th President of the United States

"Governments do not govern, but merely control the machinery of government, being themselves controlled by the hidden hand." ~ Benjamin Disraeli; Prime Minister of England

"In fact, I point out that all the conspiracies in history - especially during the last 5000 years - are actually different aspects of the same conspiracy. Some people fixed on one aspect of the conspiracy, and say this is the problem, others say another thing, but the thing is all the conspirators work together. All the conspirators are part of the same operation. And this is what people find very reluctant." ~ Eustace Mullins

"Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the fields of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it." ~ Woodrow Wilson

Past presidents of the United States and other high profile political leaders have repeatedly issued warnings over the last 214 years that the U.S. government is under the control of an “invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.”

According to six of our former presidents, one vice-president, and a myriad of other high profile political leaders, an invisible government that is “incredibly evil in intent” has been in control of the U.S. government “ever since the days of Andrew Jackson” (since at least 1836). They “virtually run the United States government for their own selfish purposes. They practically control both parties…

From Washington to JFK: Former Presidents Warn About Illuminati

“It was not my intention to doubt that, the Doctrines of the Illuminati, and principles of Jacobinism had not spread in the United States. On the contrary, no one is more truly satisfied of this fact than I am. The idea that I meant to convey, was, that I did not believe that the Lodges of Free Masons in this Country had, as Societies, endeavoured to propagate the diabolical tenets of the first, or pernicious principles of the latter (if they are susceptible of separation).” ~ George Washington

George Washington's Warning About The Illuminati

Deep state:
Eastern Establishment
CIA
Wall Street
International Banks, i.e. Chase Manhattan
Think Tanks
NGO’s
Secret Societies: i.e., Skull bones; Some Masonic Lodges
Military Industrial Complex


Western Southern Establishment:
Oil and Gas companies
Military Industrial Complex
FBI
Some Masonic Lodges and secret societies
Some old and traditional Corporations
Think Tanks

International

Bilderbergers

Rothschild’s

Some think Tanks Masonic Lodges and secret societies—i.e:

Club of Rome

Sovereign Order of Malta

originally posted by: nwtrucker
So how old is this Deep State? Where did it likely begin?

I am firmly convinced that this thing goes way back...

How far back is anyone's guess.

The Illuminati is Satanic Priesthood whose bloodlines go back 1000’s of years. The Illuminati was born back in ancient Babylon. The headquarters was then located in Egypt. From Egypt the Illuminati rulers moved their offices to Greece. Rome was next to be the center of Illuminati influence. Then by way of France, Germany and Bavaria, they centered their rule in London. Now they are focused on Washington. Notice that the Illuminati headquarters have been the current world empires throughout history. The Empires weren’t established first. They sprang from the Illuminati Rulership.

It’s a mistake to think of the Illuminati as a political/financial conspiracy. The Illuminati is a Generational Priesthood, whose family bloodlines go back 1000’s of years. The Merovingians claim heritage from King David. The very low or non-bloodline members of the illuminati have the least power and do the lowest jobs; couriers, drug runners, sex servicers, and para-military assassins.

CHRISTIANS AND CONSPIRACIES - Straight Talk Radio Transcriptions

"The illuminati started long before 1776, It has it's roots in the mystery religions which the knights templar perpetuated. In Nimrod's time, Semiramus brought back the mystery religions which were from before the time of Noah. The Illuminati was just a different name by which these same entities exsisted. They can change their name a thousand times, but the same entities run it."

Illuminati Roots

The Illuminati is simply a modern manifestation of an ancient Luciferian Cult, the consummate Evil cult, the Cult of Evil, which is now the main vehicle for the Ancient Luciferian Conspiracy for World Empire. Jesus Christ knew of it and confronted it repeatedly and called it the "Synagogue of Satan" ( Rev. 2:9; 3:9). The ancient Luciferian Cult, known today as the Illuminati, is thus a modern vehicle of the Ancient Conspiracy for World Empire often called the New World Order. The term "Illuminati" is a merely a modern name for the ancient cult, the Cult of Evil, which is comprised of the main human agents of Evil on Earth.

The Illuminati is an inter-generational conspiracy orchestrated by a coterie of inter-related families some of whom are often referred to as the Global Elite. Most high level Illuminists are born into this network of families who can trace their jealously guarded and cherished bloodlines far back into antiquity.

Ancient Luciferian Cult called Illuminati

By adopting this chameleon strategy, this satanic cult infiltrated and subverted most governments and religions, and established an invisible tyranny without drawing much attention. ~ Henry Makow Ph.D.

A Satanic cult has colonized the earth. This is the key to understanding history and avoiding the pitfalls of modern "cult--ure."

Humanity is Satanically Possessed

The Illuminati is a very covert satanic cult which dominates global commerce and the military / industrial complex. It's hierarchy is composed of thirteen bloodline families whose ancestry is traceable back to the Babylonian era.

STOP MISLEADING the CHILDREN

The core of the control over Planet Earth's populace lies in ancient cults. These cults are still in existence to this day. The power elite of this world worship Saturn and appease him with child sacrifices just as they have for hundreds of years. The most public of these displays is the "Cremation of Care" ceremony held annually at Bohemian Grove, where the members sacrifice a child to their god Moloch.

Pseudoreality and The Governing of The Committee of 300

Wake up and smell the coffee here. When Adam Weishaupt’s branch of the Movement got in trouble with the law, and got a black eye in public opinion, they discontinued the USE of the NAME “Illuminati.” The NAME was unimportant and un-needed. It was necessary to do some quick re-shuffling, some swift slight-of-hand (which walnut shell is the pea under?) and some fancy footwork.

But the WORK of ILLUMINISM continued uninterrupted, and re-surfaced all over the world bearing many names, but none the less pushing the same agendas, holding the same beliefs, and tenets, and keeping the same practices. One needs only to follow that trail, to find out that also, the same individuals, the same leaders, the same gurus and the same movers and the shakers were still at work.

What is the Illuminati?

Today’s occult elite still observes these rites, but with one major difference: They are now carried out on unsuspecting civilians and spread across the world through mass media. Fed and amplified by the fear and trauma of the masses, these mega-rituals are seen by all, but only celebrated by the occult elite. More than ever, we are dealing with Black Magick. “The human sacrifice required during many of these occult dates needs to contain the following elements, each one of which is exaggerated to the highest possible degree: People must die as human sacrifices, especially children, since The Darkness views younger human sacrifice as most desirable”

The Cult of Baal Never Disappeared

"The Illuminati is a group that practices a form of faith known as "enlightenment". It is Luciferian, and they teach their followers that their roots go back to the ancient mystery religions of Babylon, Egypt, and Celtic druidism. They have taken what they consider the "best" of each, the foundational practices, and joined them together into a strongly occult discipline. Many groups at the local level worship ancient deities such as "El", "Baal", and "Ashtarte", as well as "Isis and Osiris" and "Set"....

I do know that these people teach and practice evil. Weishaupt did not create the Illuminati, they chose him as a figurehead and told him what to write about. The financiers, dating back to the bankers during the times of the Templar Knights who financed the early kings in Europe, created the Illuminati. Weishaupt was their "go fer", who did their bidding."

Illuminati Defector Details Pervasive Conspiracy

a reply to: network dude

Will do, thanks.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
So as a correlation, then, there is no bureaucrat based, outside activity working either against the current Administration or in favor of any hidden agenda that any Administration may have?

Simply put, no 'deep State'?

Not in the sense that Trump refers to. Power in the government is distributed, and it's not all directly elected as we have a representative government. Some people are appointed, those people then appoint their own people, who in turn appoint other people. By the time you get 2 to 3 layers deep in this whole thing, high level agendas cease to matter in that employees day to day decisions and it's about ability to do the job.

When you have anything other than this, you begin to centralize power around the head of state, and in turn wind up with a dictator, or dictator like powers.

a reply to: Aazadan

Cough, cough..

As if government has any power compared to the corporatocracy. The government is merely, at this point, the last line of defense we the people have against the corporate elite. Sadly our government is also the law enforcement arm of the corporatocracy. They don't have the real power. They are stuck in the middle. We attempt to wrestle some control but we don't have the same pull. The government will continue to throw the public just enough bones (via the corporate eilte's approval) to keep us in line, to not realize what late-stage capitalism has done to the power structure. One thing is for sure, the corporatocracy is a runaway train and it will all get worse before it gets better. And there certainly isn't some sort of secret socialist push (which would be anti-corporatocracy by design anyway).

Which Corporations Control the World?

No shadow. The facts are all out there plain and simple.

a reply to: okrian

I think they just use all sorts of distractions to keep us busy through all sorts of methods.... entertainment, sports, politics, fake news, false flags, Q, social media etc. etc.

They one constant is that they keep gaining more control. More control physically, pscologically, culturally, spiritually etc. etc. IMO Trump has slowed it down in some areas but increased it in others.

Its never going to change until people stop looking for others to save them and start looking inward. Alas there is an ever growing self indulgent segment that is presently not capable of looking inward. Its the biggest concern I have with my kids growing into this new world order garbage. When the lid finally blows off this trashcan its going to be a very bloody period of tribulation.

Need evidence???? Look at the suicide rates among teens. Look at the average age a child is introduced to pornography. Look at the percentage of all ages of people on drugs. Its all very disturbing.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Aazadan

Cough, cough..

I don't think Trump is a dictator, though I was referring to him. I don't like the idea of going down a path of centralizing that much power on the Presidency though. Executive power always ebb's and flows, but in my ideal world, I would consolidate a few cabinet level positions. The President would appoint those cabinet positions, and give them a direction. Those cabinet officials would then run their departments, and have director level positions to appoint. Those directors would in turn manage their individual agencies.

Many here would believe that to be building the deep state. I see it as giving the President the job of leading, not micro managing.

Arrange the government like a fractal. Each person has say 5 reports. Applies equally to the President, cabinet, and directors. Set that management system all the way down.

a reply to: Aazadan

You cite an 'ideal' situation. This thread is about the existing situation, not an ideal one. You say there is no deep state.

I say 'deep state' is only a label. One that pertains to the existing operations within our current Federal gov't. On one hand if one creates enough 'distrust' of one's gov't one has effectively disenfranchised the people from it's gov't and undermined, to a greater or lesser degree, that nation.

On the other hand, not following up on the accusations empowers continued and expanded abuses. That's why the thread is entitled what that deep state is and is not.

You do acknowledge abuses do and are occurring?

a reply to: nwtrucker

I don't see them as abuses. Elected officials are not meant to have direct control over every facet of government. What you're referring to is real, I just don't see it as anything nefarious. It's precisely how our government is supposed to work. Representatives of representatives of representatives run things. Most direct influence is abstracted away.

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: nwtrucker

I don't see them as abuses. Elected officials are not meant to have direct control over every facet of government. What you're referring to is real, I just don't see it as anything nefarious. It's precisely how our government is supposed to work. Representatives of representatives of representatives run things. Most direct influence is abstracted away.

Oh really? Not 'meant' to have direct control? Extant laws ignored? Some would suspect you not finding it nefarious would be due to your apparent agreement with those acts.

In any event, the consensus is more 'control', direct or otherwise, is needed. It is in progress....

originally posted by: nwtrucker

originally posted by: Aazadan
a reply to: nwtrucker

I don't see them as abuses. Elected officials are not meant to have direct control over every facet of government. What you're referring to is real, I just don't see it as anything nefarious. It's precisely how our government is supposed to work. Representatives of representatives of representatives run things. Most direct influence is abstracted away.

Oh really? Not 'meant' to have direct control? Extant laws ignored? Some would suspect you not finding it nefarious would be due to your apparent agreement with those acts.

In any event, the consensus is more 'control', direct or otherwise, is needed. It is in progress....

It is not the role of elected officials to manage departments. It is their role to appoint people to run those departments. Direct control is not a good thing, because the President (or any other elected official) cannot devote the amount of time necessary to directly run a single department, much less multiple. Assuming they have the knowledge of how to run it in the first place.

This isn't just a government thing, corporations are the same. The CEO does not personally manage the IT, finance, or sales departments. They provide direction, and hire people who run those departments, who in turn hire their own upper and middle management staff to run it.

a reply to: Aazadan

You avoid the point. Assuming the state of affairs are not meeting the expectations of the majority of the people, normal operating basis is the last thing needed.

One doesn't just sit and wait for the hiring and approval process to wind it's bureaucratic course if change is deemed needed quickly. Besides, I don't see this Administration 'micro-managing' the whole government. I see specific actions to expedite mandates as quickly as practical.

Internal resistance to that mandate is a deep state issue.

originally posted by: nwtrucker
a reply to: Aazadan

You avoid the point. Assuming the state of affairs are not meeting the expectations of the majority of the people, normal operating basis is the last thing needed.

One doesn't just sit and wait for the hiring and approval process to wind it's bureaucratic course if change is deemed needed quickly. Besides, I don't see this Administration 'micro-managing' the whole government. I see specific actions to expedite mandates as quickly as practical.

Internal resistance to that mandate is a deep state issue.

Know how you fix that? You make the government a more attractive place to work and attract the best and brightest. The worse a working environment you make it, the worse the career officials are going to be.

And yes, this administration is micro managing. That's why the State Department has been almost fully dismantled with all power consolidated on the President. That's why 50% of appointed positions for the President have been unfilled. That's why most agencies still don't have directors, they have acting directors or administrators.

Note, that this strategy has been defended as shrinking government by shrinking the number of people working there. That is not happening, the scope of government is the same, but power is being consolidated. Shrinking government has to do with narrowing the scope, not the number of people employed. We're actually doing the opposite and employing fewer but broadening the scope. Kushner for example has an unprecedented level of power for any single person, the Department of Education has a larger say over schools today than ever before, and the State Department is mostly being run domestically rather than utilizing ambassadors.

originally posted by: nwtrucker

Ask The Gut.

a reply to: Aazadan

Yep, less bodies means more consolidation of decisions. Sorry, but the machine is bloated, slow and largely indifferent and myopically, self-absorbed.

Deregulation also happens staff-wise, obviously less regulations needs less people. The diplomatic Corps is a perfect example. Education isn't even needed.

You seem to like things the way they are.

I do not. The changes have barely started.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: nwtrucker

The deep state exists and it is (primarily) the Obama administration.


Secondarily, it is establishment politicians that enjoy the "status quo" and don't want any real change in our country. They have an agenda and when the lowly unwashed upset their applecart, then we get punished with new laws, rules, restrictions, taxes.


In my opinion.

Very unlikely that a 'deep state' would align itself with just one political party imo.

The US deep state has been influencing elections abroad for decades, I find the notion that they would lose the ability to do it home soil incredibly naïve.