The issue with atheism

a reply to: noonebutme

Here we go with the hate again!

If your'e an atheist you abandon the
scientific method when it says life
can only come from life. Example
after example day after day and every
second it's repeated to you that
life comes only from life. Life never
comes from nothing. Not by a single bit
of evidence.

Do you believe that life only
Comes from life?

My belief that life comes from a living God
is on the table. You can't even argue
against my belief with nothing on the
table. Much less ridicule like a child.

Hows that for logic?

originally posted by: noonebutme

originally posted by: randyvs
You can't believe in nothing because of everything.

Are you intentionally obtuse or if is mental deficiency?

Athetism isn't the "belief" in nothing. It's denial to the claim there is a god.

Person X says Person Y commit murder. Judge A says prove. Person X says I can't, Judge A says, well I don't believe you.

Are you saying that the Judge A is nonsense?? That he MUST accept Person X's claim without evidence ? I wouldn't want to be in that court of law.

Atheism is pure non sense.

Then so is not believing in the claim that the Easter Bunny is real or Santa Clause is real, because according to you, you cannot 'believe' in, or deny the non-existence of something, Ie; something that doesn't exist.

Your logic is absolute horsesh*t, Randyvs

Any evidence for aliens, any spaceships, any intelligent designs, life, unexplainable things aliens have done
Yes or no,
You use Santa and whatnot, plenty of people believe in aliens, without evidence, you look silly with your comments
Many atheists believe in aliens, science proved them?

You are going out for a cheap pop, look at me, I am a hero.
Put a bit of thought into your argument
There is far more unexplained that you pretend doesn't exist than explained, you are hiding yourself from it, why?
Fear, you scared of the bogeyman, ghosts, demons, of course not, they don't exist

originally posted by: noonebutme

originally posted by: Raggedyman
God has a plan, to bring you into relationship with Him

That's pure conjecture - you don't know that to be true. You assume it from literature written by man.

You have no more insight into the mind of 'God' than anyone else alive on this planet.

No I don't, so ignore me, ignore what I stated, it wasn't for you anyway


What buisness is it of yours

originally posted by: Raggedyman
What buisness is it of yours

It's 100% my business when you post on a public forum intended to discuss and debate.

If you don't want your opinions and beliefs questioned, don't post them in public.

a reply to: noonebutme

Same goes for you.

originally posted by: randyvs
Do you believe that life only
Comes from life?

No. I believe that life can come from the random arrangement of molecules over billions of years. There is zero evidence to suggest that all life originated from any sentient or otherwise organic being.

My belief that life comes from a living God is on the table. You can't even argue
against my belief with nothing on the table. Much less ridicule like a child.

Dude, you haven't put ANYTHING on the table apart from your statement. You have presented NOTHING to show that a) life came from any supreme being let alone b) that your supposed supreme being even exists.

Hows that for logic?

It isn't logic. It's just "your opinion" backed up by...your opinion.

I gave you 2 real world examples of how your poorly and incorrectly defined view of 'atheism' isn't what you claim -- a belief in nothing and there cannot be valid.

Why haven't you address what I posted earlier about Judge A not believing in the unsupported statements of Person X? Why are you avoiding that very simply example of how not believing in a non-existent claim doesn't mean it is invalid? YOU claimed athetism isn't valid because you cannot 'believe' in nothing as 'everything' around you negates that.

Which I said was horsesh*t. Because it is.

Again, if you, Randyvs, are accused of murder and I, noonebutme claim to the judge you are 100% guilty because I believe it. Are you happy to be convicted based on my opinion alone?

Answer me that.

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: noonebutme

Same goes for you.

Of course it does. At which point did I act like a snowflake and get disturbed by people questioning my opinion?? I'm happy to argue and debate.

Its you God fellows who get hot and bothered when disgusting words like 'evidence', 'logic' and 'proof' and thrown around

a reply to: noonebutme

No. I believe that life can come from the random arrangement of molecules over billions of years. There is zero evidence to suggest that all life originated from any sentient or otherwise organic being. 

So you do believe something.
And it can be said according to what you
described. You believe life can come from
nothing. At some point by some miracle
inanimate molecules are just suddenly alive.

WOW

Looks like you believe in nothing.
Not even the scientific observable evidence.
Because you have none for your belief.

How can you even post something so
obsurd? And have the gual to criticize me?

I put my belief on the table and you
mock it like some little girl. And at
the same time you offer something
only more ridiculous.

Life just happens despite the lack of
evidence.

Quack esse!

originally posted by: Blue_Jay33

If there was/is a God he should have fixed everything before now, long before now actually.

Or the other possibility that those other paths simply believe everything is working according to plan. There is no need for intervention from a higher power because this reality is the challenge, to 'fix' this world would remove the entire appeal. Then where would those souls be lining up to be birthed into? Another reality with a better structure?

Why would someone wish for a high power to just come along and 'poof' fix everything? That would ruin everything.

Maybe there are people out there that experience the spiritual and don't immediately start looking to the skies. Maybe they approach with an open mind instead.

When one does not know something, which is the wiser choice?

A: Make something up that sounds nice or accept the first answer someone gives that you think sounds good despite having no proof or evidence and clinging to this belief no matter what new evidence presents itself.

or

B: Try to look into it, acquire data and evidence from which to draw a conclusion, and should you acquire enough evidence to do so, accept that conclusion until new evidence presents itself that contradicts said conclusion requiring you to reassess as necessary. Oh and if it turns out there's not enough data to draw a conclusion in the first place, accepting that one does not know the answer and needs more data before drawing a worthwhile conclusion.

I prefer option B myself.

Someone not knowing the process from which life springs and choosing option B, and taking the need more data to determine the answer to that is in all way superior a choice in my mind than saying, "Well since there's no clear data defining the process God must have done it."

For one, "I don't know, need more data" is more humble and honest than, "God did it and if you disagree you're wrong."

The first person accepts they as a human cannot know everything, and leaves all options open until more data presents itself, including the God possibility should evidence of such present itself. Where as the second person has determined their answer despite a lack of data, and refuses to consider other possibilities such as a natural process with no God given or supernatural influence, even if such evidence were to present itself.

a reply to: Puppylove

Alright maybe you can show me the
observable evidence or demonstrate how
life can come from some where besides life.
Or is that something you just believe?
With out evidence and against the
empiracle overwelming model.

a reply to: randyvs

Option B, there is not enough evidence that has presented itself for which I can draw a conclusion on what the exact process by which life formed in the beginning has occurred. As such is the case, I like with many things in life am forced to leave things open with, I do not know and would need more data to determine an answer to said question. I'm am humbly able and willing to accept that I cannot, do not, and have not the answer to all things. Sometime "I do not know" is a perfectly acceptable and reasonable conclusion. I don't need to present you evidence for something I freely admit having no answer to. I was not there when the first life was formed on this planet, nor do I have any sufficient data from said period of time to draw a worthwhile conclusion. Where you there? Do you have any such data from said time?

originally posted by: WarriorMH

originally posted by: randyvs
a reply to: WarriorMH

Well you have judged me wrong as atheists
love to do. Play the victim or do some
research before you judge. You'll see
I only reflect the hate some atheists
dedicate their whole lives to.

RIGHT HERE ON ATS!

Just so you know i don't feel "atheist" in the way you described it, i just don't believe in religion, in any one of those. I don't know what may be out there but i can see, i'm not stupid and religion as it is used and practiced is dumb and evil and i don't see how it can't be something good, i wasn't raised to believe in any of it and i see things from outside and from my point of view everyone in religion is throwing sticks to the guys across the river just because they have different fruits and the grass is a different color and they may or may not have better weather and that's just stupid sorry but it is just like that

I still believe life is good and we must take care of each other and i'm getting bored of this because no one will ever win this converstaion and i don't think it matters anyways

I'm no victim, victims are those who look up for forgiveness and special treatment and wish for something better they have. I don't care, i have what i need and i know what i don't need and i have never wished for better, i'm happy

You can tell a lot from a person's words. How they view this life and their level of contentment. I have a feeling that you enjoy this reality and do not shy away from looking into the places where others are afraid to look, because they will then have to challenge the rock upon which they built their reality. You fear no such assessment, do you?

The conversation is the most important part, even if it doesn't accomplish anything. If the material world is here for us to use and is completely neutral, neither good nor evil. It is always the person that matters. What better way of discovering reality than to study ourselves?

originally posted by: randyvs
So you do believe something.

I've never said I don't believe in anything. Are you ill?

And it can be said according to what you described. You believe life can come from nothing.

Do you have trouble with English? I never said life can come from nothing. I said that I believe life could originate from the combination of various molecules which, over time, recombine into the very basics of organic material, which again over time, can become life.

I never said life comes from nothing. That's you and your inability to read.

At some point by some miracle inanimate molecules are just suddenly alive.

Again, you don't understand science or biochemistry. I don't claim to be an expert but life isn't a miracle. it isn't divine. it isn't supernatural. You're attributing life to a miracle. i don't. I believe there are explanations to how it works and how it comes to be.

I don't cope out my knowledge by saying, because I don't know, it must be God.

Looks like you believe in nothing. Not even the scientific observable evidence. Because you have none for your belief.

O_o what?? That... that doesn't even make sense. I based everything i said ON observable evidence. There is no observable evidence for God.

How can you even post something so obsurd? And have the gual to criticize me?

Because you have a severe lack of ability to process the written word, it would seem...Or English isn't your native language

I put my belief on the table and you mock it like some little girl.

Wow. You have a problem with women? Do all little girls mock you? Is that something that has happened to you?

I argued that your position, that life only comes from life, and even further, from a God, is preposterous. There is no evidence of that whereas we have a lot of evidence to show how it did come about. Evolution works. It's also messy and produces artifacts we don't know, inefficient eyes, etc.

No sentient God would create human eyes the way they have; unable to perceive well in the dark, cannot see the light wave lengths that cause cancer.

No God would would position our larynx in such a way that makes it EASY for us to choke.

There are plenty of examples of poor design in our bodies. Which is a perfect example of a system that looks for the shortest, quickest route to success. No smart being would have designed us in the way we have.

Again, I ask you -- would you accept a prosecutor's statement you are a murderer without evidence, simply because he believes it? Why won't you answer that simply question?

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: EasternShadow

Did you put any thought into what you just expressed

Hindu is perhaps? perhaps it's not, but it did travel over most of SE Asia, huge population of people.

Myanmar, Thailand, Laos and Vietnam adopted Buddhism.
Malaysia ( Malacca ) and Indonesia ( Acheh ) became Islamics centre and trade in 14th century. Philippine was pagan until Spanish colonization bring in Christian msissionary. Sure, there are still few islands remain Hindu, such as Bali. But Hinduism hardly SE Asian religion by the time Portuguese arrive for the first time.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
China and Japan progressed heaps compared to Europe, it wasn't until the printing press, Luthers reformation, education because of Christian Protestantism did Europe change

It's just disjointed in your explanation

China and Japan progressed heaps compare to Europe?
In the 15th century the Chinese still print with their woodblock under the Tang Dynasty.

By 1500, printing presses in operation throughout Western Europe had already produced more than twenty million volumes.[5] In the 16th century, with presses spreading further afield, their output rose tenfold to an estimated 150 to 200 million copies.

en.m.wikipedia.org...

While the Chinese had handheld canon since the 12th century, the Western had developed flintlock rifle by 15th century. By the time of first opium war ( 3 November 1839 ) , East Indian Company had steam warship compare to Chinese warjunks. And they still no idea what is going on other the half of the planet.

There were time when Chinese were technological advance compare to the rest of the world. They invented paper, ink and gunpowder. Unfortunately, like I said, Buddhism had little interest in development of material physical world. Therefore Buddhist Chinese like their counterpart Hinduist Indian were stuck in their conservative tradition for a very long time. Enough for Genghis Khan to conquer them both. Even then, they're not learning.

originally posted by: noonebutme
Do you have trouble with English? I never said life can come from nothing. I said that I believe life could originate from the combination of various molecules which, over time, recombine into the very basics of organic material, which again over time, can become life.

So which theory does it belong to? Abiogenesis? And you believe amino acid is alive?

a reply to: noonebutme

So show me the evidence for what you do
believe? And quit worrying about me.
Because just describing it in scientific
terms will not suffice. Show me the evidence
for your absurd belief?

Not like you see that happening
everyday. Not even in a lab. What makes
you even dream it can happen in a hostile
environment?

What a joke okie doke.

originally posted by: EasternShadow
So which theory does it belong to? Abiogenesis? And you believe amino acid is alive?

- Dunno
- Yes, sounds about right
- In my opinion, no

originally posted by: randyvs
So show me the evidence for what you do

I'd argue, but you are completely, 100% correct. Stuff like this is just propaganda made up by people who claim they know science.

And quit worrying about me.

I never have nor ever will be worried about you.

Because just describing it in scientific
terms will not suffice. Show me the evidence
for your absurd belief?

You're right. You win. God is the only answer. Everything else is a lie.

I apologise to you, Randyvs. You are 100% correct in every statement you have made and have ever made, and I am 100% wrong. I should never have argued against your infallible logic.

Not like you see that happening
everyday. Not even in a lab. What makes
you even dream it can happen in a hostile
environment?

You are 100% correct. It cannot. It never has and never will. Only God can make life.

originally posted by: noonebutme
Evolution works. It's also messy and produces artifacts we don't know, inefficient eyes, etc.

No sentient God would create human eyes the way they have; unable to perceive well in the dark, cannot see the light wave lengths that cause cancer.

No God would would position our larynx in such a way that makes it EASY for us to choke.

There are plenty of examples of poor design in our bodies. Which is a perfect example of a system that looks for the shortest, quickest route to success. No smart being would have designed us in the way we have.

So evolution cause plenty of examples of poor design in our bodies? What happen to survival to the fittest? Surely evolution should cause our bodies to be better and stronger?

originally posted by: noonebutme
Again, I ask you -- would you accept a prosecutor's statement you are a murderer without evidence, simply because he believes it? Why won't you answer that simply question?

Well, in the court of god, evidence is pointless because god is omniscience. Therefore, human's judgement is not the same of god's judgement. You better use different examples.