The truth about socialism... time and time again..

a reply to: introvert

I really don't know how to respond to you.

Do you think our government is corrupt?

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: introvert

I really don't know how to respond to you.

Do you think our government is corrupt?

Our government does not exist within a purely socialist economic system. So I'm not sure how your question is relevant to the discussion, except to use as an example of how corruption and such can find it's way in to any form of government/economic system.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

And at the same time, hundreds, if not by now, thousands of children are dying of starvation in socialist Venezuela.

www.nytimes.com...

a reply to: introvert

Is the US government corrupt?

Is there corruption within the US government?


Not hard questions.

a reply to: TonyS

Yet in Socialist Scandinavia every citizen has access to healthcare and education while enjoying a higher quality of life than anywhere else in the world.

Maybe these issues actually have nothing to do with a country's economic system and instead stem from corrupt politicians.

a reply to: Xcalibur254

There you go!

If you could somehow guarantee that no corrupt people would ever be in charge of the socialist system, then I'd be curious to see it.

Meanwhile....

Immigration Forces Sweden to Re-Evaluate it's Welfare Policies

From the article:

Swedes, experts say, are confronting the limits of how generous a nation with a relatively small population can be. Policy-makers must decide what changes are needed to help an aging country remain exceptional for its high living standards and its magnanimity to foreigners seeking a better life

The issue is that you cannot have generous welfare/entitlements and unfettered immigration. In addition, the population needs to be culturally on the same page. Homogeneity. This is the polar opposite of what leftist want here in the US with open borders so I find it comical that leftist love to hold up Nordic countries as examples, but refuse to also see how leftist immigration policies in the US would not allow that model to work.

The US could provide healthcare for all. Probably greater retirement. However, you cannot do those things importing poor immigrants. We'd also need to significantly reduce our military spending and that means not sending our military to every third world sh*t hole because some tinpot dictator decides he wants to rape and pillage.

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
When US lefties ask for socialism... Maybe we need to be more specific. There are different kinds of socialism.

It's great that you hit us with the red herrings that are failed socialism constructs.

However... What I think most of us MEAN... Is Democratic Socialism. The type that has been successfully executed in the following nation's:

Sweden
Denmark
Norway
Finland

Watch some videos, research statistics, and look at examples of how those countries are operate. They also have very healthy economies.

Free Education including University, high quality education
Massive public assistance programs
Universal Healthcare

These countries do it right.

If we can execute those systems here in the US, everyone would be better off

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Xcalibur254

There you go!

If you could somehow guarantee that no corrupt people would ever be in charge of the socialist system, then I'd be curious to see it.

Are you saying the US is less corrupt than say Norway or Denmark?

a reply to: DBCowboy

Scandinavia seems to be doing a good job of it.

Meanwhile in America corruption and greed has led to a major city going without clean water for four years and begging on the internet for money becoming the healthcare plan of choice.

Guess what? It's not capitalism that makes corruption have a less drastic effect in the US. It's the fact they we were already in a better position to begin with.

If we were a Third World country that has been ravaged by instability from the outset we'd be looking a lot like Venezuela regardless of if we were capitalist or socialist.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: introvert

Is the US government corrupt?

Is there corruption within the US government?


Not hard questions.

Indeed. Very easy, but irrelevant to the issue of socialism.

Unless you are going to try and make the case the US is socialist.

In that case, good luck.

WOW, nukes..never go full retard what a steaming pile of horsesh#t.
And you wonder why some people think some of you have no business owning weapons

a reply to: Xcalibur254

Yea, after I replied to your comment, I started mulling that idea over as well.....what does "socialism" actually have to do with what's happened in Venezuela?

For one thing, at this point in time, I'm not sure Venezuela has any sort of economic system in place. It seems that for all practical purposes, they're simply broke. Now, contrast that with Cuba, which is a Communist country.....they're not broke. They're "poor" but not entirely broke.

As for Flint Michigan, they don't need socialism, they need U-Haul; I mean, think about it, why would anyone want to be in Flint anyway.........the weather is atrocious, there's no jobs, there will never be any jobs. Really, its past time to simply condemn Flint MI, give every one a thousand dollars and a free bus ticket to "anywhere" else, "anywhere" other than Detroit.

Oh, and BTW, I was curious to know why they don't have fresh water in Flint and what capitalism had to do with it.
At a news source I'm sure you trust implicitly I found:
www.cnn.com...

Nearly two years ago, the state decided to save money by switching Flint's water supply from Lake Huron (which they were paying the city of Detroit for), to the Flint River, a notorious tributary that runs through town known to locals for its filth.

So i then researched why Michigan is broke and found:
www.mcclatchydc.com...

Bottom line........they cut taxes too much hoping to get more investment by business into the state. So, yea....Capitalism? Or just another example of crappy government.

originally posted by: intrepid

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Xcalibur254

There you go!

If you could somehow guarantee that no corrupt people would ever be in charge of the socialist system, then I'd be curious to see it.

Are you saying the US is less corrupt than say Norway or Denmark?

On the contrary.

Because of the size, I'd say we're more corrupt.

a reply to: Xcalibur254



Maybe its because they pay higher taxes than most?

The good professor finds three quantifiable reasons that may explain why taxes in Scandinavia are high, yet the incentives to be productive remain. The first is third-party verification of taxable income. There is a lot of that in Scandinavia, but even so Scandinavia remains an outlier. The second one only seems to apply to Denmark: It has a clean and transparent tax system, without many loopholes and deductions. This keeps people from sheltering their income. It also keeps high-income foreigners from coming to or staying in your country. (Native Danes, in contrast, seem to be quite attached to their homeland.) Third, the Scandinavian countries subsidize a lot of things that are complementary to work – such as education, child care, elder care and transportation – thereby compensating for their high taxes.

And there is more that sets Scandinavia apart. So far we have looked at fairly clear-cut correlations of quantifiable numbers between zero and one. But might policy and politics be downstream from culture? Well, that certainly appears to be the case once we look at Scandinavian culture. Scandinavians trust their fellow citizens. They think poor people have typically been unlucky instead of lazy. They vote actively and participate in civil society. They respect the rule of law, and they donate to charity.

www.usnews.com...

a reply to: olaru12

Socialism for our needs

Capitalism for our wants

a reply to: Xcalibur254

So we agree that there is corruption within the US government.

This is progress.


Now socialism would be giving our corrupt government (which we have previously agreed upon) even more authority than it has now.


And that's why I would say socialism is a bad thing for us to get involved in.

If people want the great warm and fuzzy socialism, then go to the countries that are smaller and have less corruption.

Because corruption is here to stay in the ol USA!

And limiting government, placing responsibility on the individual is the better way to go, especially if you have a corrupt government.


In my opinion.

The means of production in the hands of the workers... nooooooooo! The horror!!!!

So your suggestion for combating "authoritarian socialism" is authoritarian Right-Wing Military Junta...

Logic...

a reply to: DBCowboy

How is our current system preferable though? The only difference is that the power is in the hands of corporations as opposed to the government.