The truth about socialism... time and time again..

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

And to the person who has a rare disease who cannot get adequate treatment because their disease does not respond to the government approved, one-size-fits-all approach to treating that disease; the person who lives in a small town underserved by family physicians who must wait to see if they get lucky in the lottery to get drawn when that physician has a patient slot open up; the person who must wait months in pain for a test or procedure because of the backlog you just say, "I got mine. Screw you and pay up?"

How capitalist of you.

Don't know why none of that has ever happened to anyone that I know. Don't know anybody who would swap for your system, either. Do you think somebody's selling you a bill of goods so that they can keep selling you a bill of goods?

I could ask the very same thing of you.

Just because you don't know anyone doesn't mean it doesn't happen; it just means you don't know anyone it has happened to. How many people with rare diseases do you know for example?

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: DBCowboy

When did the economic system of a country HAVE anything to do with freedom?? Lol


Freedom is one of those relativistic words that means different things to different people .. so everyone claims they are on the side of freedom..

Aka it’s meanless tripe that people use to deflect from having a real debate..

I can see how some may consider the very concept of freedom as meaningless tripe.

Thank you for illustrating my point.

originally posted by: Lucidparadox
When US lefties ask for socialism... Maybe we need to be more specific. There are different kinds of socialism.

It's great that you hit us with the red herrings that are failed socialism constructs.

However... What I think most of us MEAN... Is Democratic Socialism. The type that has been successfully executed in the following nation's:

Sweden
Denmark
Norway
Finland

Watch some videos, research statistics, and look at examples of how those countries are operate. They also have very healthy economies.

Free Education including University, high quality education
Massive public assistance programs
Universal Healthcare

These countries do it right.

If we can execute those systems here in the US, everyone would be better off

Denmark asked Bernie to stop calling them democratic socialists, so maybe you should too.

Also, those countries listed have a lower capital gains tax, are homogenized culturally and racially, and are a fraction of the US population.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: JohnnyCanuck

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: JohnnyCanuck

And to the person who has a rare disease who cannot get adequate treatment because their disease does not respond to the government approved, one-size-fits-all approach to treating that disease; the person who lives in a small town underserved by family physicians who must wait to see if they get lucky in the lottery to get drawn when that physician has a patient slot open up; the person who must wait months in pain for a test or procedure because of the backlog you just say, "I got mine. Screw you and pay up?"

How capitalist of you.

Don't know why none of that has ever happened to anyone that I know. Don't know anybody who would swap for your system, either. Do you think somebody's selling you a bill of goods so that they can keep selling you a bill of goods?

I could ask the very same thing of you.

Just because you don't know anyone doesn't mean it doesn't happen; it just means you don't know anyone it has happened to. How many people with rare diseases do you know for example?

Socialized healthcare seems to work ok for routine care. The cracks start showing though when you need more immediate and specialized care which is why the elites in those countries come to the US when sh*t gets serious...

The thing is if the healthcare market in the US were more free, it would be far cheaper to get routine care.

We have a ton of "urgent care facilities" that have been opening in my area of Chicago. Basically, people go there when they have sniffles and other minor ailments. You know you have a cold or something and just need someone to look at you and get a prescription. I've pretty much stopped going to my primary care physcian beyond routine check ups and other major issues.

What is also interesting is the competition between these urgent care facilities is driving down prices as well. I saw an advertisement for one where they say the typical cost is less than $50. Even a Walgreens opened up a clinic.

a reply to: JoshuaCox

I guess you're cool with the war on drugs right?

You're cool with the idea that if the Feds wanted too, they could come into Colorado and California and every other state with legal or decriminalized weed and bring down the hammer for defying federal law.

You are aware of the naked regulation of what you can and can't buy and sell as regulated by the government under the guise of "interstate commerce" right up to telling farmers what they can and can't plant and how much and what it has to sell for in some cases?

Heck Obamacare force you to participate in the market even when you may not have wanted to for reasons of economics -- I CAN'T AFFORD TO. It's either buy insurance or, you know, do things like eat and have a roof over my head.

a reply to: Edumakated

Oh, almost every grocery store has some sort of urgent care here. The local children's hospital also has an urgent care right up the road from us. We're very well served on evenings and weekends.

Generally, we see our primary care if we can get in to see him, but for everything else minor, the urgent cares are fantastic!

But how often do you come down with a flaming case of strep at a convenient time?

a reply to: ketsuko

It's a refusal to looking at things objectively.


In order for socialism to exist, we'd have to lose the fundamental freedoms of choice, among other things.


They rail against government, but are silent when asked the question if government will grow under socialism.


They are against corruption, but have no issue giving the corrupt more authority over us.

In their socialist utopia.

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: TonyS

Yet in Socialist Scandinavia every citizen has access to healthcare and education while enjoying a higher quality of life than anywhere else in the world.

Maybe these issues actually have nothing to do with a country's economic system and instead stem from corrupt politicians.

So why are people scrambling to get in the USA and not going to Scandinavia?

a reply to: DBCowboy

I guess the tug of war is between the illusion that everything is free and by that it's not everything but only that narrow range of things the government chooses to provide and on the timing and scale they will provide vs. the range of choice but at the cost out of pocket of that choice and freedom to decide how you will pay for it and what you will pay for.

Right now, I'm butting heads with the "wonderful" free school system trying to make sure I know what all the pieces of my kid's little puzzle are, but because the kid makes high grades, they aren't concerned with the problems I am seeing so they won't pay to have him assessed to rule out or in certain learning issues. In other words, he's likely compensating because he's smart, but at some point, the wheels come off that wagon. When that happens, we're all in for a world of hurt, him most of all. *Then* they'll bother to look for problems and only then, but by then, it might be too late.

So, our option is to pay to have him assessed out of pocket now while he's still doing well.

The system doesn't care, and it isn't good at what it's supposed to do.

a reply to: ketsuko

A) of course I’m anti-war on drugs.. I think it is hands down the most destructive policy in US history..

That is made doubly worse by the fact no one EVER really thought it was a good idea.

Nixon (a conservative republican) creates it to demonize the blacks and hippies , his political opponents at the time..

The Regean another conservative republican increased all the sentences by a factor of ten. Because no one would snitch on their dealer if they were only facing 6-12 months..

Not because they thought possession deserved more time.. so they could force people to snitch..


B) we pay for ALL kinda stuff we don’t want to.. making sure we all collectively get a better deal on healthcare LIKE EVERY OTHER MODERN CONTRY ON PLANET EARTH, is literally one of the only things we should all agree on..

C) yes I know about the Supreme Court decision concerning interstate commerce....


It’s been used for some HORRIBLE policies and some pretty good ones..

I’m not stupid enough to ignore each individual policy because I have been trained to instantly revile something if TPTB point at it and say “socialism, communism, racism, sexual assault, exc there are too many to name)”...

They can’t make me fetch by saying “socialism boy! Go get it!” Lol..


I’m actually going to do the math and see if I think the policy will work or is a good idea..

originally posted by: Teikiatsu

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: TonyS

Yet in Socialist Scandinavia every citizen has access to healthcare and education while enjoying a higher quality of life than anywhere else in the world.

Maybe these issues actually have nothing to do with a country's economic system and instead stem from corrupt politicians.

So why are people scrambling to get in the USA and not going to Scandinavia?

There is fairly high levels of immigration to most Scandinavian countries. Since they are generally bordered by other high income (social democratic) countries and the sea, illegal immigration is less of an issue.

originally posted by: ketsuko
Just because you don't know anyone doesn't mean it doesn't happen; it just means you don't know anyone it has happened to. How many people with rare diseases do you know for example?

Spent a lot of time here, have you?
I will never say that our system is perfect. However, my opinions are based for the most part upon my wife and I having put ourselves, 4 kids and 4 parents through the system. Not upon the Google campus of the University of YouTube.

But, if you want to 'Murica-splain to me about our health care system...go nuts...

a reply to: DBCowboy

I consider using freedom as a buzz word meant to deflect from an argument your having meaningless tripe..


As if there are any “free countries”.. lmao..


Are you freee to get High if you wanna ??

Are you free to drive as fast as you wanna??
Are you free to go anywhere you wanna???


Can the states lock you in s concrete box for little to no reason??


America isn’t even the country with the most freedom...

Then there is the other side of freedom..


Free to keep slaves???

Free to rape and pillage???

Free to take whatever you want from whoever you want??


I don’t hold it against you.. conservatism is based around buzzwords they use to train the sheeple to fetch and roll over on command..


If they say socialist, globalist, communist, then the conservative base will shut its brain off and just hate whatever they are pointing at..

a reply to: JohnnyCanuck


Conservatives basing their world view around some fictional account from some forign nation that was always propaganda in the first place?!?!


Well color me surprised. Lol

a reply to: DBCowboy

BWAHAHAHA

What?!!??

The side with almost all the scientists, college professors and intellectuals, is the side that won’t look at things objectively..


But the ubber religious , climate deniers are the ones looking at things objectively..


Yea.. that makes sense lmao

a reply to: JoshuaCox

Never said that America was the most free country.

I simply stated that freedom is an ideal, my default, so to speak.

You can scoff at the premise of freedom all you want.

You're (erm. . . ) free to do so.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: JoshuaCox

Never said that America was the most free country.

I simply stated that freedom is an ideal, my default, so to speak.

You can scoff at the premise of freedom all you want.

You're (erm. . . ) free to do so.

Yes but it's been pointed out that your "ideal" is just that. It's not a reality. One could contend that that reality is better served by these "socialist" countries.

a reply to: intrepid

I suppose.

But if we all just settled then there'd have been no pesky little revolution a while back.

Failed ideologies disgust me also. I am disgusted by American style capitalism. I am disgusted by any political system that is corrupt and does not serve its people. Few areas get it right. The Scandinavian countries seem to strike the best balance. We should take a hard look at what works best for them and how it might apply to us. And that includes socialistic practices. One thing is for certain, what we are doing in America is not working. Not.even.close.