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The US Had Access to Substance Allegedly Used to Poison Skripal (Novichok)

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posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:41 PM
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One of the "Big News" stories doing the rounds at the moment is the poisoning of former Russian intelligence officer Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in the UK, using a soviet era Russian made Nerve Agent called Novichok.

The UK prime minister Theresa May has stated today that the UK will be imposing sanctions against Russia, in response to the alleged Russian involvement in the attack.
No proof of Russian involvement has been offered other than the identification of the nerve agent itself as being of "Russian" origin.
The Russians are saying that they had nothing to do with the poisoning incident.

Well, guess what...
Novichok was produced and/or "tested" at several Soviet era "research institutes", including one in Nukus, Uzbekistan.
Upon the break-up of the Soviet union in 1991, Uzbekistan became an independent country and the newly elected officials there had to come to terms with what to do about all of the left over soviet weapons/chemicals etc

When they came to realise what the Russians had been up to in Nukus, Uzbekistan (the large-scale manufacture or testing of chemical weapons including Novichok) they decided to call in some help, in the form of the Dept of Defense (DOD) of the good ole US of A!

As reported in the NY Times on 25th May 1999:


The United States and Uzbekistan have quietly negotiated and are expected to sign a bilateral agreement today to provide American aid in dismantling and decontaminating one of the former Soviet Union's largest chemical weapons testing facilities, according to Defense Department and Uzbek officials. Earlier this year, the Pentagon informed Congress that it intends to spend up to $6 million under its Cooperative Threat Reduction program to demilitarize the so-called Chemical Research Institute, in Nukus, Uzbekistan. Soviet defectors and American officials say the Nukus plant was the major research and testing site for a new class of secret, highly lethal chemical weapons called ''Novichok,''


and



Alarmed by the health and environmental impact of the Soviets' use of Uzbekistan for the production and large-scale testing of illegal chemical and germ weapons, President Islam A. Karimov renounced weapons of mass destruction. Since then, his Government has worked closely with American defense officials, granting them access to sites whose counterparts in Russia are still off limits....

...Vil S. Mirzayanov, who worked for more than 25 years in the Soviet chemical weapons program, has told them and later said publicly that the plant was built to produce batches, for testing, of Novichok binary weapons designed to escape detection by international inspectors.


What this means is that the USA clearly had unrestricted access to Novichok (AND the research data regarding its manufacture) yet the UK is saying quite categorically that it MUST have been Russia who used it... since Novichok was originally made in Russia!

The UK (and now the US and EU) position on this matter is a complete joke IMHO.
How can they exclusively and specifically blame Russia when the west obviously had access to this nerve agent too???

LINK to original NY Times article HERE

The level of agenda driven mis-(and dis-)information being used at present is almost unbelievable.
Strange that none of the army of reporters working for the msm has managed to find an article from the NY Times showing proof that the west had access to this nerve agent huh?


BigG out.




posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:46 PM
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a reply to: Gordi The Drummer

Things that make you go mhmmmm....



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:47 PM
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As I asked in another thread when this was brought up, what indication is there that any product or research data was left? You don't think Russia cleared the place out before they left? Even if there was any significant amount of Novichok left in the facility eight years sounds like a long time for it to sit around in a less than ideal environment without breaking down.

Then you also have to ask yourself, what does the US government have to gain from assassinating a former Russian double agent.



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:52 PM
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Of course they did.

Even if they didn't, you know the CIA has some laying around.

Spooks are spooky.



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:55 PM
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Its definitely interesting but so far all it really proves is that America has accesses to the stuff almost two decades ago.

Its a bit of a stretch to go from that to saying that there was some other state actor involved in this assassination attempt.

Personally I believe it was the Russians because they have done this before, its a show of power for Putin during a election, UK/Russian ties are very low, the Russians had the means to do this and so far everything coming out of the uk government based on reports from Porton Down, MI5, SIS and SO15 all point to Russia. Now that does not mean to say that it is 100% proven this was Russia just that I think they are the most likely suspects.

Now I know some want to demand some kind of solid proof but thats just not how UK law works, the evidence is mostly (not all of it but most of it) kept under wraps until any court case. Furthermore the UK has always been very secretive in how much information it gives out regarding espionage and I would also further suspect that to explain exactly why its so sure of Russian involvement could compromise this.

The UK would not be taking such a hard line on Russia with out being confident that the Russians state or Russian interests where behind this attack.

Other than this information that America also had some access to the weapon used there is nothing else that I have seen that points to anyone other than Russia having behind behind this.

S&F though for the new information.



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:57 PM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254

Then you also have to ask yourself, what does the US government have to gain from assassinating a former Russian double agent.


Yes, that's a good question to ask one's self considering the ramp-up to the RUSSIA!! narrative that has exploded in the last year from our Globalist sell-outs and their obviously compromised MSM.



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:57 PM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
Then you also have to ask yourself, what does the US government have to gain from assassinating a former Russian double agent.


Maybe its pay back, for the Russians meddling with the US election process... CIA style.



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:59 PM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
As I asked in another thread when this was brought up, what indication is there that any product or research data was left? You don't think Russia cleared the place out before they left? Even if there was any significant amount of Novichok left in the facility eight years sounds like a long time for it to sit around in a less than ideal environment without breaking down.

Then you also have to ask yourself, what does the US government have to gain from assassinating a former Russian double agent.


The fact that the pentagon confirmed that it spent $6million "De-Militarising" it?



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:59 PM
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a reply to: Xcalibur254

Well, being as though this is a conspiracy site...

Elements of the US intelligence services disposing of a once useful asset who has now become a liability, whilst implicating the current bogeyman du jour in the process.. win-win?



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 01:59 PM
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originally posted by: Subaeruginosa

originally posted by: Xcalibur254
Then you also have to ask yourself, what does the US government have to gain from assassinating a former Russian double agent.


Maybe its pay back, for the Russians meddling with the US election process... CIA style.


Actually thats a interesting idea.

Just speculation obviously but.....

What if this entire saga in the UK right now is just part of a much bigger war of spies that has been going on since the accusations of Russia rigging the election away from the public eye.



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 02:03 PM
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a reply to: The GUT

OK, you swayed me. Clearly this was the work of some rogue operative in the US government that just so happened to work at the theoretical facility that produces Novichok. He then sneaked the weapon out of the facility, bypassing all the safeguards in place that stop people from doing just that, flew to England, found a random ex-Russian spy and poisoned him. All so the already strained relationship between the UK and Russia can be strained.



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 02:03 PM
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a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Hi Other,

I didn't actually say that it wasn't Russia.

I was pointing out that it is misinformation (at best) to say that it HAD to be Russia, on the basis that it was originally made in Russia, when clearly the west had access to this stuff and presumably the manufacturing data (recipe) for actually making it too.

G



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 02:04 PM
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originally posted by: Xcalibur254
a reply to: The GUT

OK, you swayed me. Clearly this was the work of some rogue operative in the US government that just so happened to work at the theoretical facility that produces Novichok. He then sneaked the weapon out of the facility, bypassing all the safeguards in place that stop people from doing just that, flew to England, found a random ex-Russian spy and poisoned him. All so the already strained relationship between the UK and Russia can be strained.


And thats the problem....

Russia right now seem to be the only ones who make any sense.



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 02:05 PM
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a reply to: Gordi The Drummer

Well this guy (the inventor) published the Novichok formulas in his book before 2009. He even talks about it on youtube.



So hardly the closely held state secret the UK wants us to believe.

Here is what he said about it a day ago:



Dr Mirzayanov said that novichok, which means "newcomer", can be made from two separate compounds similar to chemicals used in agriculture, and which crucially are not on the chemical weapons convention banned list.

In that way, he said, novichok could be transported to the site of an attack in its constituent parts without detection, and once assembled the tiny micro particles could easily be deployed using an aerosol, spray, liquid or wipe.

He thinks it is likely that the attack was carried out using a spray, which maximises the chances of a victim getting the nerve agent on their skin and also inhaling it.

Dr Mirzayanov described the secret development of the powerful nerve agent as "a plot against the world" designed to maintain chemical weapons capability without having to declare it to the international community.

Link.


edit on 14-3-2018 by loam because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 02:06 PM
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a reply to: Gordi The Drummer

$6 million sounds right in line with what it would cost to decontaminate and dismantle the facility. It does not however sound like a feasible amount to do all that as well as sneak a stockpile of the weapon back to the US and construct a facility for it to be stored in here.



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 02:06 PM
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originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin
And thats the problem....

Russia right now seem to be the only ones who make any sense.

Many western politicians have been very sensible.

They are currently being called sympathizers, or outright Russian assets.



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 02:08 PM
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a reply to: Gordi The Drummer

Duh....

But the US has no reason to poison him , unless trump made some backroom deal with putin because of that access..


That is just trash logic...


To the best of my knowledge only one country had any motivation to have him killed.

And that country has a history of using high tech posions , I’m guessing to send a message.

Plus it would take a major nation state to even have access to such a high tech poison ..



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 02:10 PM
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I swear to God if my government had any role in this, they are done.

Armed revolution and gallows.



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 02:13 PM
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a reply to: Gordi The Drummer



didn't actually say that it wasn't Russia.


True, fair point.



I was pointing out that it is misinformation (at best) to say that it HAD to be Russia, on the basis that it was originally made in Russia,


So I know that this is more speculation but.....

Is it really so hard to believe that the the UK specialists have the ability to say where this was made, that is to say they take a look at the substance, and say this matches exactly the same stuff that comes out of this lab in Russia. Must like how its possible to say where a specific batch of a narcotic came from.

Its interesting actually that there was a article I was reading about how the Russians are the only ones who apparently know how to manufacture this stuff (NewScientist) So if you can say the Russians are the only ones who know how to make it and thats what all your intelligence says and the analysis of the agent is supportive of a Russian link then is it unreasonable to say it was them.


edit on 14-3-2018 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Mar, 14 2018 @ 02:15 PM
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originally posted by: bigfatfurrytexan
I swear to God if my government had any role in this, they are done.

Armed revolution and gallows.


We've been involved and implicated allegedly in far worse, overtly and covertly.

imo



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