Pro_Life Violence

Originally posted by saint4God
Not at all. We're talking about rights. The point was missed so I'll let it go...

I didn't miss the point.. but comparing abortion to to abusing a dog is ludicrous.. a dog is not inside the 'abuser'.
And we are BOTH talking about rights.. you just think a woman's freedom, life, quality of life and rights [and free will] should be forfeited for that of a fetus.

What I have a problem with is the 'my my my' attitude.

What.. you don't think a woman should think about themselves and their own wellbeing?

Can you not see that in my illustration? Don't spin this as literal and me being disrespectful to women.

You did that yourself.. I'm actually surprised at your lack of understanding for these women.

No problem, I can break it down for ya. The problem here is there are two lives involved and some people believe there is only one. This is false.

I agree.. but the difference is one is a small under developed fetus completely dependent on a fully formed human being.

By Declaration of Independence, each individual is promised life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Abortion is also a violation of the constitution.

Going by that.. so would forcing a woman to continue a pregnancy she is illequiped to deal with.

Declaration of Independence:
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

Whoa! unalienable right to Life? Wow. What a gift!

Constitution:
"We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

Does that help?

Yeah it would help alot if I were actually an American.

Originally posted by deesw
Screw yourself dude, I don't like being called a liar.

I didn't call you a liar.. I asked you to prove your claim as it's not logical and not consitent with the prochoice message.. but you opted to abuse instead. This again makes me doubtful that you've seen such sites.

I didn't call anyone a liar about the pro-life websites mentioned.

Thats because it is common knowedge that some pro-life organisations/sites PROMOTE VIOLENCE.. off the top of my head 'army of god' is one.. you were just trying to go tit for tat saying pro-choice sites do the same thing.

hi, i am just a new member who currently joined about two minutes ago. i read about 4 or 5 pages and i definatly had to write something. Anyways, i dont think i have ever read more bs than anything that is in the "conspiracies in religion," but more over to my two cents on this topic is that....in my opinion, abortion is not the best thing in the world, and neither is capital punishment.....things are just done to make people happy. i really dont agree with abortion, but if i got some girl pregant i know that i just would not be ready for that child both financially and emotionaly. I would hope that she would decide to get an abortion, but to me that "fetus" that is being "killed" is a living, breathing individual. I am currently trying to be a pre med student, and from a few classes i have taken...Im pretty sure that the nervous system is first to devolop, and fetal heart is beating only after a month (if im wrong than oops). Anyways, most abortions are performed during the first trimester (up to 11-12 weeks?)....still considering how much the "fetus" is developed, i still would think that the "fetus" is still much a person as a newborn. after reading that people just call the fetus "just a mass of cells" "pond scum" it just kind of makes me wonder where these people went to college or highschool. the group of cells dont attach to the uterus untill like a few weeks after the embryo has been fetilized. and after that happens give it like a week and you can make out features of the "fetus." abortions don't even happen untill it attaches to the uterus, how are you going to get a develping embryo out of the falopian tube during the first few weeks? well anyways before i get too off of what i was saying. Abortion in my opinion is wrong, but if i were put in a situation that were to make me decide, I think i would lean towards getting the fetus aborted. Thats just my opinion so please dont rag on what i have said.

i just saw a ufo click here to watch it

nope. im say more people would engage in sodomy rather than coitus. doi.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there. I think the majority of people are grossed out at the idea of anal sex. That is the kind of garbage that caused us to pull our children out of the public school system here. The schools are teaching our children that if they can't control their hormones then it is much safer to have anal sex. That is a load of crap, you can't safely have sex, so screw someones butthole? Whatever

Originally posted by fskebles
I would hope that she would decide to get an abortion, but to me that "fetus" that is being "killed" is a living, breathing individual.

They dont breathe. And they certainly are not individuals. That is the issue for me, they arent really killing anything. They dont have any memory, they dont laugh, or cry, they dont read, they dont write, they dont know what it is to love, or suffer, they arent conscious, they dont agree or disagree with the actions and choices of president Bush, "they" dont exist. Our personalities and worldviews are formed as we experience our environments around us, these fetuses have no experience, they are not individuals, they have no personality, there really is no "they", as that hints at individuality. It's kinda like people who have accidents and go into vegatative states, there is no real point in keeping them alive, other than thinking, and wanting to believe that "something" is still there. But there is nothing there, whatever was there, is completely gone, erased, never to be seen again. You arent even looking at the same person. They arent living. So, can you please tell me how fetuses are breathing, living individuals? You arent killing a poet, or a awarding winning mathematician, fetuses have no concept of these things.

Originally posted by Alec Eiffel


They dont breathe. And they certainly are not individuals.

At Weeks 9-12 an unborn baby has a sucking reflex already in place, and may suck on his thumb or fist. He is also practicing swallowing the amniotic fluid, and at this point is able to excrete it as urine. He can feel pain

Originally posted by LadyV

Originally posted by Alec Eiffel


They dont breathe. And they certainly are not individuals.

At Weeks 9-12 an unborn baby has a sucking reflex already in place, and may suck on his thumb or fist. He is also practicing swallowing the amniotic fluid, and at this point is able to excrete it as urine. He can feel pain

They dont "feel" anything. They arent conscious. Pain is just a reaction. Nobody is actually "feeling" any pain. We feel pain, we know what pain is, we know what suffering is, we suffer. A fetus has no experience.

They dont "feel" anything. They arent conscious. Pain is just a reaction. Nobody is actually "feeling" any pain. We feel pain, we know what pain is, we know what suffering is, we suffer. A fetus has no experience.

So in your opinion, at what point do we start to matter? At what point are we worth keeping?

Originally posted by Alec Eiffel
They dont "feel" anything. They arent conscious. Pain is just a reaction. Nobody is actually "feeling" any pain. We feel pain, we know what pain is, we know what suffering is, we suffer. A fetus has no experience.

Are you just rambling in the sky now, or is what you say actually based on something else than your own fantasy?

Originally posted by deesw

They dont "feel" anything. They arent conscious. Pain is just a reaction. Nobody is actually "feeling" any pain. We feel pain, we know what pain is, we know what suffering is, we suffer. A fetus has no experience.

So in your opinion, at what point do we start to matter? At what point are we worth keeping?

I'd say, when the baby comes outta the womb, it's yours.

Originally posted by Jakko

Originally posted by Alec Eiffel
They dont "feel" anything. They arent conscious. Pain is just a reaction. Nobody is actually "feeling" any pain. We feel pain, we know what pain is, we know what suffering is, we suffer. A fetus has no experience.

Are you just rambling in the sky now, or is what you say actually based on something else than your own fantasy?

That would be funny if it wasnt coming from someone who believes in an ill-defined deity based on wishful thinking. Maybe you're right though, why dont you ask a fetus? Oh, wait...

Originally posted by James the Lesser
...would that be to dangerous due to the nutcase pro-lifers who blow up entire hospitals to take out one room?

Got a link? Or just most candyland?

www.armyofgod.com... This is a pro-life group responsible for several bombs/shootings. Not candyland.

Also, it makes sucking motions? I make flapping motions, am I a bird? Sorry, not "alive". Anymore then a tree or a zombie.

And when it comes out of the womb? No, it is a full human in the second half of the second trimester. IE if you did a C-Section, with the right tech, it would live. But when abortions are done, if you did a C-Section, no matter the tech, it would "die".(Since not alive, can't really die)

Which is why they do abortions in the beginning of the first trimester, before it is alive.

They dont have any memory, they dont laugh, or cry, they dont read, they dont write, they dont know what it is to love, or suffer, they arent conscious, they dont agree or disagree with the actions and choices of president Bush, "they" dont exist.

we are talking about the "fetus" right? because a lot americans cant read, a lot people don't know what love is, a lot of people don't care what bush has decided. "Vocal chords are complete, and the child can and does sometimes cry (silently). The brain is fully formed, and the child can feel pain. The fetus may even suck his thumb"just a source for my qoute...so do ordinary people "exist" and what is your definition on existence? the "fetus" that is being aborted is there....oh wait is it invisible cause it doesnt exist?

Our personalities and worldviews are formed as we experience our environments around us, these fetuses have no experience, they are not individuals, they have no personality, there really is no "they", as that hints at individuality.

I do agree that our experiences make us the individual we are today, but do you consider an infant an individual? it really has no experiences...but it will grow in time.

Which is why they do abortions in the beginning of the first trimester, before it is alive.

hmmmm abortions are done throughout the whole first trimester....they are even done during the second trimester.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
www.armyofgod.com... This is a pro-life group responsible for several bombs/shootings. Not candyland.

Also, it makes sucking motions? I make flapping motions, am I a bird? Sorry, not "alive". Anymore then a tree or a zombie.

And when it comes out of the womb? No, it is a full human in the second half of the second trimester. IE if you did a C-Section, with the right tech, it would live. But when abortions are done, if you did a C-Section, no matter the tech, it would "die".(Since not alive, can't really die)

Which is why they do abortions in the beginning of the first trimester, before it is alive.

Links to actual hospital bombings... thanks... You know the one where the whole hospital was blown up to get at 1 room... Great Hero Page though!

No link to blown up hospital = candyland.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Which is why they do abortions in the beginning of the first trimester, before it is alive.

Is it your contention that there is no such thing as a living zygote?

Whats up with the huge ass picture? It makes no sense in this duscussion.

And wtf is up with candy land? That is a board game last I checked.

And where do they do abortions into the second trimester? I have been told/read that they are only done in the first part of first trimester. Maybe dif. place dif. rules. But the one I talked to said that they only do them within the 1st month-1.5months of pregnancy.

"pro-lifers were convicted in a civil lawsuit in 1998 of violating federal racketeering laws for organizing protests and blockades at several abortion clinics. A federal judge ordered the defendants to pay nearly $300,000 in damages to two abortion clinics" Well, there some violence/destruction. www.cwnews.com...

Gee, they don't kill, that is all pro-choice propaganda.... wait, what about the people killed in Massachusets? www.now.org...

"For decades, there have been heated protests, not to mention outright attacks on abortion providers. Such attacks have included blockades, invasions, chemical attacks, arsons, bombings, death threats, shootings, sniper attacks, and cold-blooded murder. In 1997 alone, there were 13 bombings and arsons of women's health clinics" In one year 13 attacks, wow, they are so for life, they just don't mind killing.

cgi.cnn.com... This has some good pictures of the damage of the pro-life nutjobs do with bombs.

www.skepticfiles.org... Reports of attacks on humans by pro-lifers.

There, pro-life people killing people. So pro-life they kill as much as possible.

Originally posted by Kinja
Great Hero Page though!

So you approve of terrorism? :shk: