Originally posted by deesw

It's no-ones business to tell a woman what to do with her body, especially not the government

It's not just her body drfunk. There is a child there.

ok, so if we abort it before its a child case closed - its none of your business.

maybe the staes will begin to see the light, and seperate church from state like promised. if sodomy was legal in the bible belt there would be less abortions.

what ever happened to freedom of religion? oh i forgot, it never existed. they made it up so they could go to their church not englands church.

the pro life people are the modern day versions of witch hunters. See, if there was a such thing as magic, its gods job to punish people for practicing it, not mans. JUST LIKE ABORTION.

If it was a true personal choice to have sex like it should be, people would be taught that it is written in the bible that (ok insert the chapter of leviticus here) blah blah blah. THEN AFTER THAT SPEIL they would say but it has never been proven and it isnt the law its just how the church feels, and its not law.

but it is law in a lot of places and kids are told sex is wrong from an early age. if only we told the truth about sex drugs and violence to our kids the country would be so much better off.

the movie refer maddness is a perfect example. in the opening scene it said marijuana was more dangerous and addictive than heorin. they showed this movie in schools. blatant propaganda. When i was in school my sex education was the most misinformed program i could have had. i answered a question when the teacher asked me where pubic hair grew and said on "the penis" and the teacher YElLLED at me and said never on the penis, on the scrotum. im all grown up now and have hair on the shaft of my penis but my teacher wasnt man enough to explain it propperly. he could have said "no JP, the pubic hair grows mostly at the base of the genitals on the scrotum and the area leading up to the navel. that is the propper answer. I was also told that "when a man and woman are in love, and they are embrqacing, and the man has time to slip his penis into the womans vagina they can make a baby".
that part of the lecture was given to the boys and girls by the woman who gave the seperate lecture to the girls. if she couldnt even explain conception i dont even want to know what she told the girls, but i would bet a years salary that it was innacurate.

so really, untill we get the education of children fixed, there is always gonna be abortion.

its funny to me they put a sticker on books that teach evolution that say "this is a theory" but they dont do that when they say "god gave these sex laws to man for us to obey".

they should say this is the dogma the church has on sex, its a dogma not science. please feel free to exorcise your constitutional rights of freedom of religion and either belive it or disbelive it as you see fit. here is legitimate statistics on the real dangers of sex that we spent millions of dollars on researching. but since thats not gonna happen, there will continue to be abortions and violence.

on a side note, to solve the problem i sent an email to god and asked if he could please change the commandment to "thou shall not kill unlees it is a pro choicer.

so far no reply.

Originally posted by blueorder
same as dropping the bomb on Japan killed thousands, but saved (probably) even more

Hey, I'd like to hear a discussion on this blue. Could you start a thread on the morality of this along with your position on the topic?

Well, that is a difference. We wage wars, only other animal I can think of that does this is ants. And that is when two nests get to close to each other, not "You have our holy land! We want your gold!".

Ok, is an arm human LadyV? If I get in an acciddent and my arm is amputated is it a human with the right to vote, drive, so forth? Brain matter? Still slime. Not even remotely human.

People, ABORTIONS ARE DONE IN THE FIRST PART OF FIRST TRIMESTERm, WHEN IT IS SLIME, MAYBE A MISHAPEN ARM, BUT STILL, NOT A HUMAN! We don't even look human until after the time that abortion aren't done. They don't do abortion into the last part of third trimester, no, in the first part of first trimester, not aborting anything remotely human.

And this is off topic, suppose to be how pro-lifers havbe no problem slaughtering the masses while the pro-choice hasn't killed anyone.

i agree with saint on that one, becasue he is pro life means nothing other than he belives in pro life as opposed to pro choice.
we are 2 reasonably intelligent adults and dont have to kill each other becasue we have different beliefs.

i wish more people could understand that...

Saint, maybe you should get the other pro-lifers who don't blow up hospitals/think this is the right thing to do and get on the news, have your own march, whatever. Try to show that not all pro-lifers agree with the assanation of doctors/nurses. Show that not all agree with beating a woman as she enters a clinic/hospital to death. You know, get the other 30% not represented on the news together and show not all of you are the brainless homicidal maniacs the other 70% is. Would be nice to see the goo apples shine brighter then the bad apples for once. You know, like get the 10% of inner city blacks who haven't commited a crime together and let them get on the news for once, I swear, all you hear about is the other 90% killing, raping, gangs, drugs, but one of them grows up and goes to college and does great? Nothing.

It is sad that the media(especially Fox) show everything that is bad, never anything that is good. Unless it Bush doing something right for a change. But 5 minutes every month doesn't balance out the other 99.999999999% of the time spent on negative things. Maybe make a new news channel, the PNC, Positive News Channel. Where you get the good news, not just the bad and the worse.

Considering the pro-choice movement was created to PREVENT coathanger abortions and the like.. I highly doubt you've seen such sites. Care to provide a link?

Screw yourself dude, I don't like being called a liar. I didn't call anyone a liar about the pro-life websites mentioned.Dude, your not gonna get too far in life calling people liars and such.

and the matter of having an eternal soul is up for serious debate, that is strictly a matter of religion and therefore opinion

Please tell me your not saying trees and grass have souls.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Saint, maybe you should get the other pro-lifers who don't blow up hospitals/think this is the right thing to do and get on the news, have your own march, whatever. Try to show that not all pro-lifers agree with the assanation of doctors/nurses. .

There are already people who do this!!!!!!!!!!!

if sodomy was legal in the bible belt there would be less abortions.

So you're saying anal sex is the answer to abortion?

I never said tree and ants have souls I am saying is is a matter of opinion that a soul exists at all.

And
James the lesser, that is not the difference between animals and humans, and ants and humans are not the only animals that wage war, chimpanzees do it, lions do it against hyenas hunting down the alpha female, termites, bees and wasps at times, bees and bees if you look at the aggressiveness of the africanized ones, I can go on.

The difference between us and them is that we are sentient, and we take control of our environment, changing it to suit our needs. We don't corner the market on violence, and if we did, it still wouldn't make us special.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
And this is off topic, suppose to be how pro-lifers havbe no problem slaughtering the masses while the pro-choice hasn't killed anyone.

Except the 40,000,000 who's lives have ended. Abortion isn't a U.S. thing only, it's a world problem and an every time period problem.

Ok so some say it's not a baby until a certain point. Well then maybe they should wait a little longer before the abortion. After all if it's not a baby there could be the chance that it would develop into something that isn't a baby, like something really neat like a bag of money.

OF COURSE it's a baby and you had an abortion because you know 8 months from now that's what you'll be in the hospital having unless you rip it out of the womb. You have trouble deciding when life starts but we all know the day it will end, the day the abortion is performed. .

Life starts? Well hell, sperm are life then. You do realize you people sound ridiculous, right? By your meaning then God is a mass murderer for he has killed billions of billions of human with old age. See how stupid that sounds?

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Life starts? Well hell, sperm are life then. You do realize you people sound ridiculous, right? By your meaning then God is a mass murderer for he has killed billions of billions of human with old age. See how stupid that sounds?

If you want to discuss the God of the Bible and old age etc. you need to start reading some of the other threads concerning this. I would love to debate it but it needs to be a different thread.

Originally posted by deesw

if sodomy was legal in the bible belt there would be less abortions.

So you're saying anal sex is the answer to abortion?

nope. im say more people would engage in sodomy rather than coitus. doi.

James the Lesser, I'm not ridin your jock, but I do agree with you.

The apparent pro-lifers seem to enjoy straying off topic on this thread. You're right, this is about pro-lifer violence, not about the moral and legal issues of abortion.

Now, I have heard of pro-lifers being attacked by police. Again, POLICE, not pro-choicers. I must say, I haven't heard of pro-choice people bombing pro-life meeting places and the like. I HAVE heard of pro-lifers blowing up clinics, beating down women, etc. Excuse me for straying off topic...

Look, pro-lifers, don't deny the facts. As with any other group, not all of you are bad. The point is, this thread was supposedly created to discuss the nutcases who promote violence in order to save the unborn. If you people stick to the script, this thread would make more sense. Besides, if you want to discuss the legal and/or moral issues concerning abortion, create a thread about it. Just keep it gully here.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Saint, maybe you should get the other pro-lifers who don't blow up hospitals/think this is the right thing to do and get on the news, have your own march, whatever. Try to show that not all pro-lifers agree with the assanation of doctors/nurses. Show that not all agree with beating a woman as she enters a clinic/hospital to death. You know, get the other 30% not represented on the news together and show not all of you are the brainless homicidal maniacs the other 70% is. Would be nice to see the good apples shine brighter then the bad apples for once.

I would march side-by-side with you on this. Violence does not persuade. Thanks for the compliment.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
You know, like get the 10% of inner city blacks who haven't commited a crime together and let them get on the news for once, I swear, all you hear about is the other 90% killing, raping, gangs, drugs, but one of them grows up and goes to college and does great? Nothing.

There should be representation proportionally as you've put it. I don't know the statistics, but agree with your point.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
It is sad that the media(especially Fox) show everything that is bad, never anything that is good. Unless it Bush doing something right for a change. But 5 minutes every month doesn't balance out the other 99.999999999% of the time spent on negative things. Maybe make a new news channel, the PNC, Positive News Channel. Where you get the good news, not just the bad and the worse.

Turn off the bad news. Keep tabs on it now and then. Now, are you ready for the good news? There are good things happening all the time. A great number of us are to love one another and do. There is a God who loves you and supports your search for truth. Anger, hate, greed, jealousy do not have to be a part of your life at all. All the garbage sitting in your past can be redeemed. Eternity can be a bright future.

Uh oh, I've done it now. Time for me to pay the penalty for telling the good news...

Pray, train, study.
God bless.

[edit on 19-2-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by dbrandt
After all if it's not a baby there could be the chance that it would develop into something that isn't a baby, like something really neat like a bag of money.

LOL, oh my. I'm sorry. This isn't supposed to be a funny topic I know, but what an illustration. I need a glass of water after that one.

Originally posted by dbrandt
OF COURSE it's a baby

Originally posted by truthseeka
The apparent pro-lifers seem to enjoy straying off topic on this thread. You're right, this is about pro-lifer violence, not about the moral and legal issues of abortion.

We all agree bombing abortion clinics is wrong. There's no discussion here, is there? Anyone who thinks it's right to bomb a clinic raise your hand.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Now, I have heard of pro-lifers being attacked by police. Again, POLICE, not pro-choicers.

That's because these particular 'pro-lifers' were doing something WRONG!

Originally posted by truthseeka
Look, pro-lifers, don't deny the facts. As with any other group, not all of you are bad.

Thank you...I think.

Originally posted by truthseeka
The point is, this thread was supposedly created to discuss the nutcases who promote violence in order to save the unborn. If you people stick to the script, this thread would make more sense.

Be fair, I think both sides have strayed to prove a point.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Besides, if you want to discuss the legal and/or moral issues concerning abortion, create a thread about it. Just keep it gully here.

Agreed.

Hmmmm, still wanna make the PNC.

Anyways, db, what would have happened if HITLER had been aborted, Pol-Pot, GWB, Ted Bundy, Stalin, OBL, Saddam, Jeffery Lionel Dahmer, General Forrest(CSA General who created KKK after his side lost the Civil War) what if all those evil men had been aborted? Life would be much better for the world, and much better for the millions dead. So lets see, abortion 40mil, people who should have been aborted, and using pro-lifer nut job logic, the people who weren't born because their parents were killed, in the billions.

So, who has more blood on it's hands if you consider slime blood?