Pro_Life Violence

Had not one, or two, but five abortions, by the age of 16 years old.

that really sucks because i remeber one of my anatomy teachers (who is pro choice by the way) saying that abortions can hurt the mother too, because abortions abroptly (spelling?) stops the body processes for the pregnancy. I think one example used were: since hormones secreted to develop breast milk stops all of a sudden, more than likely the chances of getting breast cancer doubles or something in that ballpark. She used this example because that is what her mother? died from only being in her early forties. and her early form of breast cancer was attributed to her abortion from years before.

Originally posted by saint4God
I agree. There is only one way. No killing.

Leviticus 20:16 And if a woman approach unto any beast, and lie down thereto, thou shalt kill the woman, and the beast: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

This is the crime and punishment given to Moses by God. How do you put the woman to death without killing her?

For you to claim the Bible says no killing under any circumstance just shows your lack of knowledge of the Bible. The path you choose is admirable but not commanded. There would be no Christianity if there was no killing in self defense.

shut up with the bible talk, this is supposed to be a discussion of abortion violence, not god's laws, go find a religious forum, not all of us here believe or care to believe the crap you two are spitting at each other.

The only real question of laws we should be discussing is not god's but mans the only ones that matter in the end anyways in my opinion. Anyways, if a person believes that the babies are being murdered and then bombs a colinic to stop the murders, that person is still a murderer and deserves to rot in prison, no ifs ands or buts about it. I don't even knwo why we are discussion religious issues here, I mean seriously it has nothing to do with it, other than you believe in pro-life or not, we don't need to know what jesus did, it is irrelevant to the context of this discussion.

The only way religion should be discussed is if religious fanatics are the nut jobs who are responsible for all this violence. I'd be interested to see some links in that regard. Are these groups or individuals merely pro-life or are they fanatical religious zealots who in killing ultimately are hypocites?

You know people there really are quite a few cases where Fathers Rape their daughters, To call these girls slutz is pretty ignorant. Maybe in your opnion it's wrong to take the life of the Fetus , but really in the case of Incestual rape I'm not going to judge a thing ,And i'm sure Hell not going Nitpick the ethics of a poor girl who would be forced to carry her fathers child.

[edit on 20-2-2005 by bordnlazy]

Originally posted by Kinja
I will lose no sleep over any slut who gets murdered in her quest to murder an innocent child

I think it's safe to say the far majority of women who get abortions are not sluts, but choose not to have a child during this period of time in their lives because they aren't ready for it yet.

You can go ahead and keep calling girls sluts while I get to know them better! more lovely ladies for the rest of us dude, i'm not losing any sleep over that, OR WILL I?

thanks,
drfunk

Originally posted by saint4God
I think they should, yes. I believe there are 2 lives here and both need consideration.

The woman has to consider and acess if she is able to provide for a dependent.. if she can't both their lives might be screwed. And yes.. I do think the fully developed human being should have the final say.. obviously the fetus wouldn't know the situation the mother is in.

There are other options.

Also, where is the rest of this family to support said pregnant woman who cannot 'deal with it'? Fragmented, right. That's another problem we have to fix. Finally, if a man throws his DNA into this, he should be jointed responsible at least fiscally. This whole 'get her pregnant and move on to the next because I am the alpha male' garbage has got to stop. We have ways of verifying DNA these days.

I think you just hit the nail on the head.. clearly not all women have unlimited options. Men are STILL not expected to take responsibility for reproduction.. on the contrary- society still pats them on the back for one night stands and notches on the bedhead. Even in cases of rape where the victim has no fault whatsoever.. it is the woman's behaviour that is always under the spotlight. Shows what type of culture we're in.
Someone on this thread even said he was pro-life.. yet said he would hope his girlfriend would choose to abort.. [nothing personal just an example] generally speaking of course it would be the woman though who would have to cop the moral backlash and judgements of society.. [lazy single mother/murderer/slut.. take you pick] or anyone else for that matter [teachers, parents, media].

I'm not qualified to speak on the laws of other countries nor would it be right for me to say 'All other countries should be run like the U.S.'

I'll leave that job for your president.

Wolfofwar,

A friend of mine recently found out his younger sister, whos had some run ins with the bad side of the law several times. Had not one, or two, but five abortions, by the age of 16 years old. Was she coerced by her boyfriend into having an abortion? Nope. Was she raped? Nope.'

Actually techincally she WAS raped.. [to have had 5 ab's by sixteen would mean she's been having sex for some years- which would make her even MORE underage] and would have been coerced because someone would have had to of driven her to the clinic. Also.. making note of her being a crim.. illegal behaviour among girls can sometimes be a symptom of abuse. I wouldn't be so quick to judge her.
I agree she should have been on birth control [though I don't know if that would be available for her age group] but of course being as young as she is/was she might not be mature enough to use it reliabily anyway. Shame she didn't recieve better guidance when needed.

[edit on 20-2-2005 by riley]

shut up with the bible talk, this is supposed to be a discussion of abortion violence, not god's laws, go find a religious forum, not all of us here believe or care to believe the crap you two are spitting at each other.

i would have to agree with this one....and i go to church on a regular basis.

Wow, see, they aren't pro-life, they have no problem killing. They have no problem blowing hospitals up, burning houses down.

SOme of those doctors have children of their own, like the one shot by a pro-lifer while standing in his kitchen making dinner for his wife and 3 kids.

It is amazing, that not only do they exist, bt they exist right here on ATS! People who act so holy, yet praise the people who kill others.

Also, slut? That is an archaic term for woman who likes to have sex. Like Stud is a man who likes to have sex, yet slut is bad and stud is good? This is why I only call one person a slut and that cause I hate her, but anyone else? Even if they have 10 kids running around from 50 dif. fathers? Not sluts, just someone who has sex, alot, without protection. Slut is something christians use to degrade women, to "put them in their place" as the bible tells them they are less then men.

But of course BC is a sin, sex is a sin, abortion is a sin, free thought is a sin, not bowing down to child rapists is a sin, everything but killing people seems to be a sin..... strange, isn't the first commandment Thou Shalt Not Kill?(Or the full with malice, still, no killing)

Originally posted by James the Lesser
Wow, see, they aren't pro-life, they have no problem killing. They have no problem blowing hospitals up, burning houses down.

SOme of those doctors have children of their own, like the one shot by a pro-lifer while standing in his kitchen making dinner for his wife and 3 kids.

It is amazing, that not only do they exist, bt they exist right here on ATS! People who act so holy, yet praise the people who kill others.

Also, slut? That is an archaic term for woman who likes to have sex. Like Stud is a man who likes to have sex, yet slut is bad and stud is good? This is why I only call one person a slut and that cause I hate her, but anyone else? Even if they have 10 kids running around from 50 dif. fathers? Not sluts, just someone who has sex, alot, without protection. Slut is something christians use to degrade women, to "put them in their place" as the bible tells them they are less then men.

But of course BC is a sin, sex is a sin, abortion is a sin, free thought is a sin, not bowing down to child rapists is a sin, everything but killing people seems to be a sin..... strange, isn't the first commandment Thou Shalt Not Kill?(Or the full with malice, still, no killing)

You are making a fool out of yourself. Firstly, only a minority of pro-lifers resort to violence. You certainly seem to enjoy using a minority to define a majority. Secondly, murder(abortion) is far different from punishment. Executing the murderer of innocent lives is not the same as murdering innocent people. TO KILL AND TO MURDER ARE NOT THE SAME. Which introduces the next point: The SIXTH Commandment is "Thou shalt not MURDER", and since you seem to so against Christians, why are you (trying) to use the Bible to prove your case?
Also, sex is not a sin, and you seem to have eyes only for Catholicism (by referring to "BC...child rapists"), which isn't really Christianity. You would not appear so foolish if you stopped lumping all "pro-lifers" and all "Christians" together. Some pro-lifers (the ones you use to represent all of us) act wrongfully, and some "Christians" (Catholics, among others) do not represent true Christianity (the Bible and more specifically the teachings of Jesus Christ, God's Son).

No, I am pretty sure is says Thou Shalt not Kill, not, Thou shalt not murder. You are wrong, how sad is that? I, a non-christian know it better then you. It says kill, not murder. SO any killing is wrong. Also, how is it killing? It isn't alive, can't die. If you do a C Section on a 5week old, guess what? It isn't alive.

Man, you people are just so much fun, "Oh yeah! Provide me a link to where a hospital is blown up." I do. "Oh well, they were in the right." But it says don't kill in your bible, so you are breaking your rules. "You go to HELL! How dare you use our book to show us to be the fools that we are! Hell for you!" Man, at least republicans have arguemnets like "Well, you guys did it first."(which dems usually did, just not that magnitude((Clinton lied about getting head so it ok Bush lied about WMDs)) or as much) or "prove it.". And in most cases one can't, like Bush stole the first election, know it, can't prove it.

[edit on 20-2-2005 by James the Lesser]

Originally posted by riley

I'm not qualified to speak on the laws of other countries nor would it be right for me to say 'All other countries should be run like the U.S.'

I'll leave that job for your president.

LOL I don't care who you are, that there is funny.

Originally posted by Kinja

Originally posted by saint4God
I agree. There is only one way. No killing.

Leviticus 20:16

Maybe we could talk more once you read past Leviticus...(and don't forget what Exodus says about the big 10!)

To others who don't like 'Bible talk', we're talking about religious extremists yet cannot talk about the scripture they believe in? Whatever, I guess it's time for me to bizounce then...

I'm only saying is it necessary to discuss scriptures here? You two are arguing quotes from the bible while the rest of us are talking about the extremists themselves. You can quote the Bible, wow, good for you! I am only saying that the quotes aren't pertinent to the discussion, and remember genesis 10:57 thou shalt not be a bible fag!!!!

Hahah just kidding man, sort of.

I don't see how James the lesser is making a fool out of himself either, he is merely giving his opinion on pro-lifer's who take matters into their own hands. They murder therefore not only by US law but through their own religion's law they are guilty!

[edit on 20-2-2005 by jawapunk]

A lot of people murder in the bible, and not all of them are punished for it, even though it is clear that God condemns the act of murdering.
I am personally against abortion, but people who murder others because of this are nutcases.

Originally posted by WolfofWar
You know, I thought I would ad this tale in here since we're talking about abortions and who's having abortions. A friend of mine recently found out his younger sister, whos had some run ins with the bad side of the law several times. Had not one, or two, but five abortions, by the age of 16 years old. Was she coerced by her boyfriend into having an abortion? Nope. Was she raped? Nope. Was the pregnancy life threatening? Nope. She simply didn't want to have them, and didnt like birth control.

Now, while I agree that's completely F'd up, this young woman clearly did not posess good judgement, morals or instincts to be a mother at that time. Anyone who makes such decisions and disregards safety and responsibility should not have children. These often are the types of mothers who drink, smoke, do drugs, and take bad care of themselves while pregnant, then dump the children on someone else or worse, raise them poorly and cause them to be messed up individuals.

Of course this isn't always the case, and yes, having a baby "changes everything," but for the most part, anyone who would choose to terminate their pregnancy in the first place, probably is best off doing so, as they are ill-equipped mentally and emotionally for parenthood. You have to have a good head on your shoulders to have a healthy pregnancy, and have a well-adjusted child.

Originally posted by James the Lesser
No, I am pretty sure is says Thou Shalt not Kill, not, Thou shalt not murder. hen you. It says kill, not murder. SO any killing is wrong.
[edit on 20-2-2005 by James the Lesser]

Many versions indeed do say "Thou shalt not kill" but the original text is "murder". You profess to know more about the Bible, and using your supposed knowledge, you say "any killing is wrong." So how much do you really know?
Genesis 9:6 "Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed,
for in the image of God, He created man."
Numbers 35:31 "Do not accept a ransom for the life of a murderer, who
deserves to die. He must surely be put to death."
Numbers 35:16-21 "If a man strikes someone with an iron object so that
he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death. Or if
anyone has a stone in his hand that could kill, and he strikes someone so
that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to death. Or if
anyone has a wooden object in his hand that could kill, and he hits
someone so that he dies, he is a murderer; the murderer shall be put to
death. The avenger of blood shall put the murderer to death; when he
meets him, he shall put him to death. If anyone with malice aforethought
shoves another or throws something at him intentionally so that he dies
or if in hostility he hits him with his fist so that he dies, that person shall
be put to death; he is a murderer. The avenger of blood shall put the
murderer to death when he meets him."
And there are plenty more verses like that.

I thought it said kill, what original texts? KJ? Hell, even I know that is biased towards hating everything not white male. But I have always been taught in church that it is kill, Thou Shalt Not Kill. Never heard of this version you have. Proof of it? Also, killing any time not in self defense in wrong, and even in self defense you need to ask for forgivness from god for you have sent one of his creatures back to him.

Abortion is wrong, sinful, evil, but well, I am a man, not really going to tell a woman she can't do something with her body.... even if it harms someone elses body for the alternative is so much more evil, wrong, and sinful. Do you know how many women were killed by backroom abortions? Abortion is like drugs or prostitution, you can ban it all you want, still going to do it, just make it a lot worse.

Sometimes, it seems to me that quoting the bible in debates such as these, is truly pointless. It only has meaning to those who read the bible. Kinda like arguing in German to someone who only speaks Chinese.

I support both the death penalty and the right to chose.

An abortion removes a fetus. Its not a baby. its a potential baby. Its at a stage where it can either develop into a full blown human, but a 3 month old fetus is not a baby and not a human being. Pull your heads out of your butts. If a three month old cluster of developing cells is a baby, so is a wad of sperm ejaculated into a paper towel while reading a dirty magazine. Thus, any of you "pro life" males who masterbate (which is 98% of you, the other 2% lie) should be charged with genocide, since you kill 50 million potential human beings in one single wasted ejaculation.

I also support the death penalty, but want to see the system revised to better insure that only the truly guilty and deserving are put to death.

Since I do not support welfare and social giveaways, the only logic is to support pro choice, to prevent unwanted miserable potential criminals from creating a need for a welfare system.

If you so called "pro lifers" have a problem with welfare so much, then quit forcing people to have unwanted kids which produces the need and strain for a welfare system. If more unfit parents had abortions, less would be spent on cleaning up the mess unwanted and screwed up kids create.

Its a real no brainer, people.