The Myth of Hell

Well, you got the Truth and you got religion. Doesn't the Bible tell us that religion killed the Truth? Religion tortured it, mocked it, condemned it, and killed it.

originally posted by: craterman
Well, you got the Truth and you got religion. Doesn't the Bible tell us that religion killed the Truth? Religion tortured it, mocked it, condemned it, and killed it.

Yeah it does, exactly, no argument
That's why Jesus came, to end religion

Picture in your mind having lived this life then meeting your maker you are now still you but you have been changed in so much as you are now aware of your eternal nature...
Beyond this you have no more misconception of whether or not God exists for you are now aware also of just who he is and also his true nature...
What's more you are also aware of what you could have had should you have chosen to wish to be with God and like I said you now know him you are before him and his presence fulfills your entire being with pure satisfaction...
Now having experienced the truth first hand and knowing this is exactly what u want in facts it's all u ever want and need that is good is provided by the Lord...
But then you are cast out because you did not choose wisely you had no interest belief nor the desire to seek out the Lord in life...
And then you are plunged into absolute darkness into the depths of the void there is no satisfaction there is no rest there is nothing left for you but the burning desire to be with God which will now torment you forever...
This is the fire which will burn within you forever and the pain will be greater than any you could imagine because your desire for God will be that great...
Don't be a fool ask the Lord to guide your way to him it is your choice alone to do so... And thus should you not do so the worst of your burning torment will be your hated for yourself for all eternity for not having done so...
I hope this helps everyone have a clearer understanding of hell...

Hebrew hell---------
Take Christianity out of the mix. Do away with all of those bad ole Christians who have ruined this world. Let’s go back before Christianity. Were there Hellenistic Jews before Jesus was ever heard about? Yep there sure were. There were Greek speaking Jews long before Jesus and in fact it became such a problem with the Hebrew rabbis trying to find Jews who could even read or write Hebrew that they translated their very own Torah from Hebrew to Greek.

This was about several hundred years before that nasty Jesus came along with His Christian stuff, So tell me then, what did the Greek Jews call Sheol several hundred years before Jesus came along? Would you say that they called the Greek hell “Sheol” or would you say that they called the Greek hell by the Greek name “hell”?

Remember now! We are talking about Hellenistic Jews who could not read or write Hebrew. Here they have a new Hebrew scripture written in Greek. Why then would the rabbis translate hell, which would be the translation for Sheol, as Sheol? Do you see the fallacy of this type of reasoning? What would be the odds of this happening? Very, very slim to say the least.

Now we see Jesus in the picture, several hundred years later, standing in the synagogue reading the Isaiah scroll. Did He read the scroll of Isaiah from the Greek Septuagint or Hebrew Tanach? Take a guess because that is all you can do is guess. Why would the translators translate the word Sheol as Sheol in a Greek scroll? They would not do this in the first place simply because it then would not be fit to be in the synagogue and written in error. That was a scribal law. So I would assume that the Septuagint scroll of Tanach must be translated as hell. Otherwise it would be worthless.

But then we also have other Hebrew scripture that is older and to the point as to what the Hebrew Sheol/Hell was believed to be.

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Ezra the scribe appears in 342 B.C.E. returning to Jerusalem with his friend Salathiel and a few others from Babylon.in what is called a release program from captivity by the Persians.

But that was all short lived when a mere ten years passed and Alexandar The Great conquered Palestine. But my point is that Ezra and Salathiel had those ten years free to think and preach the Hebrew God of their choice. No Greek influence. Simply the freedom to rebuild and reeducate their people.

Salathiel had seven visions, one of which he is told of the Messianic Kingdom and the time of future judgment when the pit of torment shall appear. The furnace of Sheol will now appear and along with the fire of Sheol will be a paradise in Sheol. Here we see the Hebrews have evolved into an altogether advanced state of Sheol. Bear in mind that this is prior to Greek being introduced into Jewish culture.

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In his discussion with the angel of his vision, the following is said to have been said by Salathiel to the angel – “If I have found favor in your sight, my Lord, show this also to your servant: whether after death, as soon as every one of us yields up his soul, we shall be kept up in rest until those times come when you will renew the creation, or whether we shall be tormented at once.” (4 Ezra 7:75)
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"When the decisive decree has gone forth from the Most High that a man will die, as the spirit leaves the body to return again to him who gave it, first of all it adores the glory of the Most High. And if it is one of those who have shown scorn and not kept the way of the Most High, and who have despised his law, and who have hated those who fear God – such spirits shall not enter into habitation but shall immediately wander about in torments, ever grieving and sad in seven ways."
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"The seventh way which is worse than all the ways that have been mentioned, because they will utterly waste away in confusion and be consumed with shame, and will wither with fear at seeing the glory of The Most High before whom they have sinned while they were alive, before whom they are to be judged in the last times." (4 Ezra 7:78-81, 87)
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“Will time therefore be given to the souls after they have been separated from the bodies, to see what you have described to me?” “They shall have freedom for seven days, so that during those seven days they may see the things of which you have been told [the seven realms for the wicked and for the righteous], and afterward they shall be gathered into their habitations.” (4 Ezra7:100-101)
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Now here is my point. According to 4 Ezra, which is a total Hebrew rendition of scripture, accepted by the Hebrews as Apocrypha literature, we have learned that Sheol is a place of punishment and paradise. The Greeks have nothing to do with this philosophy whatsoever. It is Hebrew and one of several philosophies that have come to the Hebrews concerning Sheol. Remember that Ezra is ten years prior to Alexander The Great.

Sheol is a place of torment but not torture. That is foremost in this account and should dispel those who do not understand the afterlife philosophy of the Hebrews. A person who dies will receive a judgment of either torment or paradise in one of seven places in Sheol. Sheol has seven habitations of torment and seven habitations of paradise.

The soul dies and the unjustified spirit will wander about the terrestrial realm for seven days in confusion and torment. After the seven days it is then assigned one of the seven habitations of punishments. I see nothing of torture in this account. I do see that torment will be the final judgment in the last day because that will not alter the final punishment but will then become a permanent eternal punishment.

Now that does not tell us the complete story. We then move on up to the last day in Jewish philosophy. The judgments of those who were in the seven habitations of Sheol at this final day will receive their eternal demise. Isaiah tells us this will be their annihilation in the celestial ethereal fire.

The rewards of the justified spirits gathered from the seven various habitations of the paradise of Sheol will now be awarded their position in the celestial kingdom of The Most High. The intermediate spirits will be purged in the river of light and become pure and some will become indoctrinated into reincarnated souls. The bodiless spirits will be positioned in levels of eternal bliss and bask in the glory of The Most High.

I understand that within the following 100 years that the conquered Jew then became Hellenistic Jews and that the Hebrew culture was all but decimated. This then brought in the need to translate the Hebrew literature into the Greek language along with Greek culture. Here is where Sheol (Hebrew) became Hell (Greek). All within a very short several hundred years from Ezra the scribe.

The point being made here is that the Sheol of Moses has been transformed into the hell of Jesus and that the afterlife philosophy of Judaism today is ever changing just as most all religions change with time and wars.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
Don't be a fool ask the Lord to guide your way to him it is your choice alone to do so...

A fool? Guide to what way?

Lord's way is total destruction to anyone who does not worship him. It is not about faith alone. It is about total enslavement in term of morality and laws. We have seen how it works in churches and temples.

Lord has not been so forgiving and loving as we are told. Instead, I see Lord's wraith and vengeance. At least, that is what scribed by the coward anonymous so-called apostles of Jesus, who never have the courage to face Jesus's crucifixion. You know what they did? They hide inside their home, shivering with fear to stand up against the Roman and the Pharisees. And you expect me to follow this coward men's words?

Do tell me, how could anyone be guided to Him when all He did was flooding the world killing billion of innocents and throwing people into lake of fire? Do you dare to drown your own child to death just because they do not listen? Do you dare to burn your own child to death just because they do not listen?

Do you honestly believe violence and fear could subjugate people into submission?

No. Lord will never do such things. Human who wrote the Bible, would. Human who deny Jesus three times before dawn. Human who do not abide the law of Moses and Human who altered the Word of God with the Word of Plato, such as the Logos, the Alpha and Omega etc.

Jesus last word, "Father, why have you forsaken me."

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
And thus should you not do so the worst of your burning torment will be your hated for yourself for all eternity for not having done so...[


I hope this helps everyone have a clearer understanding of hell...

Burning torment you say?

I have face nothingness. Before I was born, I do not exist or I may be dead already. I may have live few hundred years before, and reincarnate again and again. But nothing so torment that could last and affect who I am today.

What you believe doesn't matter. We will face death anyway. That is the only absolute truth.

Men on earth are within the influence of Satan, Lucifer the fallen angel. IMO, that is why we are here. The Truth that we will know will shock us. This world is beyond evil, so much so, most would deny the Truth to avoid it.

a reply to: Raggedyman

a reply to: Lazarus Short

I have to, I didn't see it posted. Carlin just makes too much sense.



Cheers - Dave

a reply to: EasternShadow

Father into thy hands I commend my spirit my spirit.
Those were the last words Jesus spoke on the cross...
But those are not the last words he spoke either because he said plenty more after he came back from the dead...

Almost all his followers died while spreading his teachings some also by crucifixion...They were not cowards hiding in their houses...The bible speaks of the last supper and the information was given to them of just what would happen in a very short while...Now the Lord having the knowledge of his impending death surely knew the dangers his followers would have should they be found with him... That is what logic dictates... They had a job to do long after his death...

You are also confused about God throwing anyone away those who reject him remove themselves from his grace...

Now you can believe whatever you want just don't subject me to your feeble minded misconceptions...

You need many more years of study but this will do you no good because you have a severe lack of comprehension for what you claim to have studied for many years...

Your opinions are as far from the truth as you are...

I personally believe anyone that claims that know what happens after death and definitively if there is a God like in scripture or any religious text of any religion has some sort of mental illness. Not all mental illness is bad. But mental illness, to me, means you have the inability to think in a different way than you are accustomed to thinking.

I find it interesting people believe they know the answers for a fact without questioning their own belief system and understanding what a bias opinion is.

Which that said, I believe there's a better chance there is a God or Gods than there isn't.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: EasternShadow

Father into thy hands I commend my spirit my spirit.
Those were the last words Jesus spoke on the cross...

Yes that was one of three last words written by Luke.

However, both Matthew 27:46 & Mark 15:34 wrote, "My God, My God, why have you forsaken me?"

originally posted by: 5StarOracle But those are not the last words he spoke either because he said plenty more after he came back from the dead...

Those were the last words Jesus spoke on cross. I do not refer to the ressurection.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle Almost all his followers died while spreading his teachings some also by crucifixion...They were not cowards hiding in their houses...The bible speaks of the last supper and the information was given to them of just what would happen in a very short while...Now the Lord having the knowledge of his impending death surely knew the dangers his followers would have should they be found with him... That is what logic dictates... They had a job to do long after his death...

Stop dodging.

None of them witness Jesus crucifixion. Yes or No?
Peter deny Knowing Jesus 3 times before dawn. Yes or No?

Logic also dictates that, if the group of women can safely witness Jesus death from afar, so do the apostles. And we won't be debating what actually happen during Jesus crucifixion today. Instead, they ran away fearing their live even though, Jesus already assurred, they would live to spread his words

originally posted by: 5StarOracle You are also confused about God throwing anyone away those who reject him remove themselves from his grace...

Did god flooded the world after he instructed Noah to build the Ark? Yes or no?

Did god threaten to throw people into lake of fire if they do not worship him? Yes or no? Did god claimed himself a jealous god? Yes or no?

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
Now you can believe whatever you want just don't subject me to your feeble minded misconceptions...

So it's right for you to call others a fool for not following the guide of coward anonymous authors?

originally posted by: 5StarOracle You need many more years of study but this will do you no good because you have a severe lack of comprehension for what you claim to have studied for many years...

Your opinions are as far from the truth as you are...

So, anyone who criticize Bible's credibility and accountability, has severe lack of comprehension, including renown scholars like Bart Ehrman?

You can't properly address why I accused the anonymous Bible writers coward. They don't even dare to credit themselves for writing their own gospel.

a reply to: EasternShadow

First off you do not understand the relevance of Father why hast thou forsaken me...

Next Jesus did have followers there... Woman behold your son... Although the bible does not admit to it Mary M was one of his favorite and most loved followers...

Peter was a diff story perhaps even brain washed by Jesus before hand when he foretold to Peter himself three times before the cock crowed he would deny knowing the Lord...

Although Peter was sure in his faith and assured the Lord he would do no such thing ever when the time came he did just as he was told he would do... The Lord knew them all better than they knew themselves...

Had Peter not been controlled by the Lord surely he would not have denied the Lord and would have most likely died along with him or perhaps even changed the course of events by leading a rebellion to overthrow the Romans or The Jewish leadership hellbent on Christ's demise...
You are a fool for even suggesting that Christ needed saving from either for through his death victory was achieved for all...

I have clearly now shown why you are a fool for calling Christ's followers cowards ..

originally posted by: 5StarOracle

First off you do not understand the relevance of Father why hast thou forsaken me...

It's an expression of frustration. I'm sure you will deny it. I've read many times before. From others.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle Next Jesus did have followers there... Woman behold your son... Although the bible does not admit to it Mary M was one of his favorite and most loved followers...

You see? That's the problem. You discarded or non-canonized testimonials of real eyewitness, but took in words of those who weren't there? What is the motive?

originally posted by: 5StarOracle Peter was a diff story perhaps even brain washed by Jesus before hand when he foretold to Peter himself three times before the cock crowed he would deny knowing the Lord...

Although Peter was sure in his faith and assured the Lord he would do no such thing ever when the time came he did just as he was told he would do... The Lord knew them all better than they knew themselves...

Had Peter not been controlled by the Lord surely he would not have denied the Lord and would have most likely died along with him or perhaps even changed the course of events by leading a rebellion to overthrow the Romans or The Jewish leadership hellbent on Christ's demise...

That's your opinion. Your opinion does not make the truth. We don't know what will happen. The fact is NONE of the apostles [ excluding Mary and the women ] witness or heard Jesus last words on cross.

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
You are a fool for even suggesting that Christ needed saving from either for through his death victory was achieved for all...

I have clearly now shown why you are a fool for calling Christ's followers cowards ..

No. You re the fool who believe everything imposters lies. And you expect others to fall for this.

Jesus do not teach vengeance. I repeat, God do not guide you into destruction of others, regardless of their faith.

So quit calling people a fool for not accepting your imposter's way.

a reply to: EasternShadow

Imposter this imposter that... You are the only imposter here pretending to know what you are talking about...

Disciples were at the scene of the crucifixion...

To clarify for you as already stated previously woman behold your son is not Jesus speaking about himself but a disciple one of his followers...
These words prove you to be a blow hard fool with no actual knowledge nor understanding of the word you supposedly studied for years...

When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!

Go pretend to know what you are talking about somewhere else imposter...

originally posted by: silo13

originally posted by: Ghostsinthefog
What baffles me is that as a so called civilized and intelligent society we still believe in such things

Why does that 'baffle' you?

Those who don't believe are deaf, dumb and blind to the truth.

And sadly, the truth is right there in front of them and it's the BEST.

So, I would ask you.

What if you're wrong?

What if (and there is) a Christ - who - loves YOU so much He came and gave His life to save you for all eternity.

What if that's true?

You have a chance at everlasting life staring you straight in the face as you read this.

As you read this? Your life could change forever for the better - or not.

I hope you chose the right way and don't let your ego or your position here on ATS to allow you to reply with flippancy and anger and willful ignorance.

I so pray you'll realize, wow, eternity is a LONG time and it would absolutely ROCK if you were there with us too.

Jesus was fake news?

Fake news has been around for a long time, it seems.

I don't pretend I know the truth about anything. Even myself.

I know what I act on, tho and there is a higher TRUTH to this world we are in, than my own or anyones.

Noone has ever had an argument?

Who is right?

What is RIGHT?

Let's see who throws the first stone.

I have absolutely NO sympathy for these people ending up without the Grace of God, if they have been given every chance not to reject it.

Maybe God could forgive them, I can't, not in my power.

I hope they find the way.

Sounds unChristian, doesn't it?

Just shaking the dust off my feet and moving on.

“This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.” Matthew 13:49-50

“… and you will be My witnesses…” Acts 1:8

www.islandecc.hk...





Shameless self promotion.

soundcloud.com...

a reply to: 5StarOracle

I disagree, I think that initially the apostles acted cowardly, I dont have a problem with that at all
Peter chose the sword and after Christ rebuked him, healed the ear of the victim who Peter attacked, Simon Petre didnt seem to have any choice but non violence, would have been tough.

Anyway, from cowards to great men of faith, isnt that what its all about, growing into who and what God wants from us


That "why hast thou forsaken me" is an old testament prophecy, fulfilled

Here is the point: the exclamation, “My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me?” is taken from Psalms 22:1. We believe Psalm 22 is totally and exclusively a Messianic psalm. The case for such could be made from several vantage points:

(1) The New Testament quotes from it and gives it that application. In addition to the citation of Matthew 27:46 by the Savior himself, there is the testimony of the apostle John. That inspired writer, in discussing how the Roman soldiers cast lots for the seamless tunic of Jesus, declared, “They said therefore one to another, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be.” The apostle adds that this was done in order “that the scripture might be fulfilled, which saith, they parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots” (John 19:24; cf. Luke 23:34). The quotation is taken from Psalm 22:18.

Moreover, the writer of Hebrews quotes Psalm 22:22—“I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the congregation will I sing thy praise”—and makes the application to Christ (cf. Hebrews 2:12).

(2) A number of ancient Hebrew rabbis conceded that the psalm referred to the Messiah.

(3) The early Christian writers were virtually of one voice in asserting that this psalm was fulfilled by Jesus of Nazareth.

www.christiancourier.com...

originally posted by: Soulece

originally posted by: silo13

originally posted by: Ursushorribilis
Modern day Christianity preaches of Eternal Hellfire. In my opinion this concept of Hell was created to scare and convert people of different beliefs.

Logically it just doesn't make sense.

1. The punishment doesn't fit the crime.
30 years of adultery, or whatever your vice is, doesn't equate to eternal Hellfire.

2. It's anti-christian. Christianity preaches love and forgiveness. Hellfire is in direct conflict with the entire message of Christianity.


What do you think?

First of all 'Modern' Christianity is DOWNPLAYING hell fire. They call it 'eternal separation from God' - instead of the hellfire it is.

Second - Sin - is sin. Without Christ? You're going to be toast. It's not a pleasant thought, but it's a truth. There can be no justice without consequences.

Yes, Christ is the message of love and forgiveness. Without it? You will take the consequences of sin.

Isn't it great that all we have to do is believe on Christ - and we bypass all the hellfire crap?

Pretty simple message that.

For God SO LOVED the world, He gave His only begotten son, so whosoever believes in Him will NOT perish, but, have EVERLASTING LIFE!

WOOOHOOO!

Best. Thing. Ever!

I challenge you. Say a person does nothing but good things in their life, helps out the needy, sacrifices their own well being for the comfort of others in a time of need, etc. They are also not a believer in Jesus Christ. Do they "burn forever" in hell?

EDIT: In fact, I present this challenge to anyone who says they are an intelligent religious person. Either you cannot explain it, accept the ideals may be wrong, or you find a way to send a good person to hell, in which is being anti christian. It's an arrogant win-win for me in this scenario. This is something I love presenting to people who believe they know the answers because of the bible saying so.

1) Ephesians 2:8-9 King James Version (KJV):

- 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
- 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.


2) Romans 3:23 teaches "All have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Ecclesiastes 7:20 adds, "Surely there is not a righteous man on earth who does good and never sins."


3)The good news of the Bible is that, "while we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8). He knew we would each fail, sin, and lack the ability to enter heaven apart from Him. He died in our place, offering Himself as the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6) that would allow us access to heaven by faith in Him.

4) I didn't make those rules, God did. As such, the Bible clearly explains how "good people" can end up in Hell for eternity, and as Christians - the Bible clearly states that we are to share this gospel message with others in the hope that they too might believe and be saved.

5) hell is NOT a contradiction to the Bible in any way. Yes, Jesus taught that we should love others as ourselves and to forgive each other quickly for wrongs done. But why did He teach those things? Because in the Bible it says:
- "Because God, in Christ, has forgiven us (Ephesians 4:32)
- Jesus told us: “For if you forgive others their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you, but if you do not forgive others their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses” (Matthew 6:14-15)

a reply to: Raggedyman

You say you disagree with me while proving my point with Peters behavior in the garden...
Christ's followers were not cowards nor did they act as such for while filled with dread and grief at the treatment of Christ they still were there to document the events were they not?
Did other followers not display great courage also during this very same time as they petitioned for the corpse of the Lord?
I want you to put some thought into that...
You are correct to say father why hast thou forsaken me? is fulfillment of prophecy because it was...
As Christ was fully divine and fully man his divine nature can never perish having fulfilled all prophecy there was a need for the divine nature to depart that he may die as a man and bear the full anguish of all sin laid upon him at that time...
This is why those words were spoken and reveals the truth of the mystery behind his being Father Son and Holy Spirit...

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
Go pretend to know what you are talking about somewhere else imposter...

On contrary, I do know what I am talking about. Do you?

originally posted by: 5StarOracle

Disciples were at the scene of the crucifixion...

To clarify for you as already stated previously woman behold your son is not Jesus speaking about himself but a disciple one of his followers...
These words prove you to be a blow hard fool with no actual knowledge nor understanding of the word you supposedly studied for years...

When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!

Is that your best answer?

You can't even name who this disciple was. You have to resort to this anonymous beloved disciple of Jesus. Why couldn't you come up with a name?

You are just like Luke, Mark, Matthew and John. Or rather someone else who used the apostles' names.

If you can't tell who was actually present on the day of Jesus Crucifixion, because none of you were there, just admit it.. There is no point telling lies especially with the word of Jesus.

Do you even aware the punishment of lying with God's word?

a reply to: EasternShadow

I'm not lying...
And scripture does not give his name but Christ is suspected to be speaking to John...
You should stop lying about God's word if you are worried about the punishment...
And I wouldn't go around trying to scare people as you pass God's judgement for him...
Who do you think you are?

originally posted by: 5StarOracle
a reply to: Raggedyman

You say you disagree with me while proving my point with Peters behavior in the garden...
Christ's followers were not cowards nor did they act as such for while filled with dread and grief at the treatment of Christ they still were there to document the events were they not?
Did other followers not display great courage also during this very same time as they petitioned for the corpse of the Lord?
I want you to put some thought into that...
You are correct to say father why hast thou forsaken me? is fulfillment of prophecy because it was...
As Christ was fully divine and fully man his divine nature can never perish having fulfilled all prophecy there was a need for the divine nature to depart that he may die as a man and bear the full anguish of all sin laid upon him at that time...
This is why those words were spoken and reveals the truth of the mystery behind his being Father Son and Holy Spirit...

You can believe the apostles were great men, for mine they acted cowardly.
Its no big thing one way or another.
Just thought it was worth noting that some agree with the cowards issue
I do think that they went on to be great men of God, brave, utterly fearless as they grew in the Spirit.