Richest one percent made 82% of wealth created last year: Oxfam

originally posted by: luke1212
a reply to: JinMI

this is the standard i have been living by for some time now. my house is almost paid off, its the only debt i have now. i have been sinking 90% of my pay into it. loan will be paid off few more payments less then 5 years total on the life of the loan(was a twenty year loan). i only play the game as far as i have to. saved up to buy everything else i owned. if i cant afford it i don't need it.

You have this little game figured out.

Own and prop taxes is the big expense, don't get sucked into the "consumer got ta have it" world we have. The banks can't charge interest on there made up money if you don't get a loan.

good for you

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Edumakated

Corporations don't represent the will of the people, they represent their own interests. I'm speaking of corporate lobbying and I never said anything about unions or "other interest groups" so it seems you're arguing against a point I never made.

Corporations represent the will of their shareholders which are people. If you own shares in a corporation through your 401k, pension, etc the corporation represents your interests as you have a financial stake. Their lobbying is often to protect their shareholders interests. You do realize that a corporation is just a legal construct for shareholders (people). You can be a one man corporation. The vast majority of corporations are not mega-companies making tens of billions a year in revenue and profits. Heck, ATS is a corporation. Wife and I had a small side business that was formed as a LLC. The only two shareholders were her and me.

For example, I work in banking. Banks lobby a lot because many of the regulations raise costs on consumers and ultimately affect the shareholders. I support that lobbying to a degree because my job depends on it. In addition, I understand how some of the misguided regulations affect my pocketbook as a consumer. This is why EVERY INDUSTRY, no matter how benevolent and noble they claim to be, has some sort of lobbying arm. Doctors. Teachers. Unions. Service Workers. Everybody has a lobbying group of some sort to represent their interest.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Edumakated

Corporations don't represent the will of the people, they represent their own interests. I'm speaking of corporate lobbying and I never said anything about unions or "other interest groups" so it seems you're arguing against a point I never made.

Corporations represent the will of their shareholders which are people. If you own shares in a corporation through your 401k, pension, etc the corporation represents your interests as you have a financial stake. Their lobbying is often to protect their shareholders interests. You do realize that a corporation is just a legal construct for shareholders (people). You can be a one man corporation. The vast majority of corporations are not mega-companies making tens of billions a year in revenue and profits. Heck, ATS is a corporation. Wife and I had a small side business that was formed as a LLC. The only two shareholders were her and me.

For example, I work in banking. Banks lobby a lot because many of the regulations raise costs on consumers and ultimately affect the shareholders. I support that lobbying to a degree because my job depends on it. In addition, I understand how some of the misguided regulations affect my pocketbook as a consumer. This is why EVERY INDUSTRY, no matter how benevolent and noble they claim to be, has some sort of lobbying arm. Doctors. Teachers. Unions. Service Workers. Everybody has a lobbying group of some sort to represent their interest.

The true costs of many things in our society are hidden-lobby or no lobby.

The 6 large corps that own the media also own other interests. One leg of the corporate empire maybe exploiting workers in India, is the other media leg going to report this?

originally posted by: MteWamp
The problem with this tired argument is that it absolves people of personal responsibility.

It's not my fault, it's the wealthy that are to blame.
It's not my fault, it's the government that's to blame.
It's not my fault, it's ______ that's to blame.

No, maybe it's YOUR fault, and maybe if you would put down the Doritos, turn off the TV, drop the XBox controller, get up off your ass, and make some kind of effort, someday you just might begin to understand that.

Jesus Christ, it ain't rocket science folks....

Just because your neighbor drives a Porsche, does NOT, in ANY WAY, make it their fault that YOU don't drive one. And it DAMN sure don't make it their fault that you are just too stupid to even REALIZE that.

Y'know, it's this kind of logic that irks me to no end. Is this truly what you think about people when they get upset at such huge gaps such as this?? That they want to have all of the same things that rich people have?? Has it never dawned on you that maybe people just want to live comfortably??

I'm 38, but I've been working since I was 13. As time has gone on, I've seen the value of what I earn slowly get smaller and smaller. I always work hard at what I do, and I've always been working. I don't care if I'm rich, I'm not the same type of go-getter as some out there are, all I care about is living comfortably. To me, living comfortably means working a full-time job and being able to have the basics, with a few luxuries(such as a computer and internet), and not having to worry over whether or not I'll become homeless. That's all, and to be honest, I don't feel it's too much to ask for.

Unfortunately, that's not the world we're creating anymore. My wife lost her job last year, so it was just myself working full-time. We have no children, just ourselves and our two small dogs. Working full-time was giving us enough money to only slowly eat away at our savings. No doctor visits, no car repairs, just standard living, and we earned just enough to only chip away at our savings. Now, I'm actually making a decent amount above minimum wage, and we live in a town with a low cost of living, yet we were still hemorrhaging our savings. My full-time job doesn't even earn enough to at least break even. That doesn't bother you??

Thankfully my wife found work again so we can finally build our savings back up, but it's just sad that a full-time job nowadays doesn't even give enough to survive in our modern economy. Not everyone out there needs to be a huge success, and not everyone even wants to be one. Some people just want to live comfortably. That should not be an issue nowadays, yet it's been an issue throughout human civilization. Why is that?? Aaahh yes, human greed.

Not everyone is asking for the rich to not be rich. Not everyone is wanting all of the things the rich have for nothing. The rich also don't have to be so damn rich, though. They don't need to keep giving themselves raises and bonuses ever year. I mean, seriously, how much money do they really need?? Rather than giving themselves bonuses, would it be so bad to give their employees raises instead?? Help the people who got them there actually live that comfortable lifestyle??

People with money always seem to hate the concept of socialism, because they don't want their hard-earned money helping people who didn't work as hard. They're also the ones who are ok with things like this topic, and defend companies that don't want to pay their workers more while raising the prices on their products. The problem we're running in to, though, is that if people can't make enough money to even live, they're only setting them up to need to be on some sort of government assistance, or in other words, socialism. So by defending this sort of thing, you're only creating more people who will want socialism, but you hate socialism and don't want to share what little you have. It's like we're just setting everything up for failure. What a world we live in..... -_-

originally posted by: FHomerK
a reply to: seasonal

Here's a solution.

Go find a way to become wealthier, if you desire. Perhaps a change in career, or even a personal review of one's self.


Otherwise, this is nothing but a classic case of whinging.

Yeah, tell that to all the people who are at rock bottom despite their best efforts to succeed. Make sure you get a group of people together first before you deliver this wise advice to them.

a reply to: Necrobile

Yes corporations love corporate welfare and abusing social programs that were meant to be a safety net. They use these safety nets to feed cloth and house their very poorly paid employees. Corporations love socialism for them, then the fake capitalism for the public.
We are approaching a shift, with automation being what it is, somewhere a breaking point is going to be reached. The have nots are not going to be calm for ever. If there will not be a fair and equitable split of labor and business, God help us all.

originally posted by: 3NL1GHT3N3D1
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

I find it very ironic that some people visit and participate in a conspiracy forum yet defend the wealthy as if they're innocent. Pretty much every single problem with our government and society in general has its roots in greed and those who are willing/able to pay others to rig the system in their favor.

Yeah, and unfortunately it's many of the conservative members. While having addressed other issues, many still believe in trickle down economics, the debunked "myth of the meritocracy," etc. Fox News and the Republican Party still pump out these pro rich ideologies.

a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Agreed.

The go out and work hard and become successful is a great idea. Buuuut.

The ones before you who are successful have burned the bridge behind them after they cross. Like Amazon getting $1.47 reduction in cost on mail packages. This is a HUGE deterrent to others blazing a boot strap lifting trail to follow Amazon.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Agreed.

The go out and work hard and become successful is a great idea. Buuuut.

The ones before you who are successful have burned the bridge behind them after they cross. Like Amazon getting $1.47 reduction in cost on mail packages. This is a HUGE deterrent to others blazing a boot strap lifting trail to follow Amazon.

Right, hard work is a good thing. The problem is that many people do not have the same opportunities to succeed: impoverished family which means reduced capital transfer, poor education systems and opportunities, reduced nutrition which impacts brain dev and education, and then a broken economic framework that affects us all negatively. Contrary to meritocratic and "American Dream" enthusiasts, economic mobility in the US is one of the lowest in the developed world. A very small percentage of people actually changes economic class. Facts matter, not ideology.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Quetzalcoatl14

Agreed.

The go out and work hard and become successful is a great idea. Buuuut.

The ones before you who are successful have burned the bridge behind them after they cross. Like Amazon getting $1.47 reduction in cost on mail packages. This is a HUGE deterrent to others blazing a boot strap lifting trail to follow Amazon.

I showed you earlier how that was false ... but yet you keep parroting it.

So Amazon grew from Jeff Bezo's garage to become the powerhouse it is today... care to elaborate on how he wasn't crushed by traditional retailers? Oh yeah, they didn't see the potential of online sales and were slow to react to a new distribution channel called the internet.

Jeff Bezo's saw the opportunity, figured it out, quit his job, raised some capital, and started a business selling books in his garage when most people barely knew what email was...

Funny, all you haters love to hate on successful people, especially entrepreneurs. Love calling them greedy, evil, etc and how they should share their wealth. Yet all of you conveniently love to exclude the many others who have lost everything trying to start businesses, etc. I don't see any of you redistributing your wealth to many businesses that fail and their owners who go broke.

a reply to: Edumakated

Sec, I'll get to this post as soon as I'm done tweeting how much I hate slavery and support workers rights via my Iphone.

originally posted by: FHomerK
a reply to: seasonal

Here's a solution.

Go find a way to become wealthier, if you desire. Perhaps a change in career, or even a personal review of one's self.


Otherwise, this is nothing but a classic case of whinging.

Im guessing you earn well. As i do but i have been on the other end of the scale also. Your response is idiotic. If 10 million people apply for the best paying jobs available but only 1 million well paid jobs available. What happens to the other 90 percent of aplicants. Yes they are forced into lower income jobs. Your response i bet many find patronizing including me! So short sighted! The system is unfair. My pay is good but i work much harder than my management that do much less work and in my job have much less stress. The system and pyramid pay structure is a joke pal. Bit like your response!

originally posted by: Oldskool88

originally posted by: FHomerK
a reply to: seasonal

Here's a solution.

Go find a way to become wealthier, if you desire. Perhaps a change in career, or even a personal review of one's self.


Otherwise, this is nothing but a classic case of whinging.

Im guessing you earn well. As i do but i have been on the other end of the scale also. Your response is idiotic. If 10 million people apply for the best paying jobs available but only 1 million well paid jobs available. What happens to the other 90 percent of aplicants. Yes they are forced into lower income jobs. Your response i bet many find patronizing including me! So short sighted! The system is unfair. My pay is good but i work much harder than my management that do much less work and in my job have much less stress. The system and pyramid pay structure is a joke pal. Bit like your response!

how is the system unfair? what exactly cannot be overcome in the system?

a reply to: Edumakated


The assumption that many are under is that everyone is cut out to be geniuses. The facts are far from that.




As unskilled jobs start to disappear at an accelerated rate we are indeed going to have a massive issue on our hands.


.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: Oldskool88

originally posted by: FHomerK
a reply to: seasonal

Here's a solution.

Go find a way to become wealthier, if you desire. Perhaps a change in career, or even a personal review of one's self.


Otherwise, this is nothing but a classic case of whinging.

Im guessing you earn well. As i do but i have been on the other end of the scale also. Your response is idiotic. If 10 million people apply for the best paying jobs available but only 1 million well paid jobs available. What happens to the other 90 percent of aplicants. Yes they are forced into lower income jobs. Your response i bet many find patronizing including me! So short sighted! The system is unfair. My pay is good but i work much harder than my management that do much less work and in my job have much less stress. The system and pyramid pay structure is a joke pal. Bit like your response!

how is the system unfair? what exactly cannot be overcome in the system?

Where do i start? How can a start out compete with big business without millions of capital?

The amount of well educated people loosing assets and hard earned wealth because of failed start up attempts.

Do you really believe people at the bottom of the pyramid with the lowest incomes / family upbringing incomes have the same opportunities as the people with capital or good financial support. If you do you are deluded. Im not saying it not possible. But its near impossible for some. And people at the bottom must risk EVERYTHING in the process at times.

Explain to me how the %1 owning 80 to 90 percent of the worlds wealth and resources as a fair system. Now the system we currently live within has tools at its disposal to create a fairer economy. But financial greed which is essentially the same as power greed will never let this happen

If you disagree with me please explain yourself because i dont see it any other way.

a reply to: Edumakated

Asked and answered.

I showed you earlier how that was false ... but yet you keep parroting it.

The genesis of his business has nothing to do with the place we find it today. Standard oil and Ma Bell didn't start off as monopolies either.

So Amazon grew from Jeff Bezo's garage to become the powerhouse it is today... care to elaborate on how he wasn't crushed by traditional retailers? Oh yeah, they didn't see the potential of online sales and were slow to react to a new distribution channel called the internet.

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Edumakated


The assumption that many are under is that everyone is cut out to be geniuses. The facts are far from that.

As unskilled jobs start to disappear at an accelerated rate we are indeed going to have a massive issue on our hands.


.

I actually don't disagree on this point... Too many people are pursuing college at great expense / debt who don't have the aptitude. However, this is an issue of a mismatch in our education system, job market, and student loan/financing processes.

One day those richest 1 % will inherit their wooden overcoats, just like the rest of us, small comfort I know.
Plus they just cannot, no matter how hard they, take it with them.

originally posted by: Edumakated

originally posted by: seasonal
a reply to: Edumakated


The assumption that many are under is that everyone is cut out to be geniuses. The facts are far from that.

As unskilled jobs start to disappear at an accelerated rate we are indeed going to have a massive issue on our hands.


.

I actually don't disagree on this point... Too many people are pursuing college at great expense / debt who don't have the aptitude. However, this is an issue of a mismatch in our education system, job market, and student loan/financing processes.

Dont get me wrong the system is the best we have ever achieved but its at the point now with the implimentation of technology. Smart productivity and learning is possible. I think equal pay structures and learning geared towards in demand jobs should be implimented. Why should a hard working street cleaner that works damn hard in all weathers earn %10 of what a operations manager earns. I order pick as a job my management click a few buttons on a mouse and keyboard and earn %20 more. Trust me i am more than capable of doing their job. Why am i paid less when its me doing the work while they sit in the office talking about home life n footy 1/2 the time. Its bull#!! Its also bull# how i earn double than a qualified car mechanic. Am i wrong? The system is unfair in soo many ways and it really dont need to be. I believe we need centralized job alication thats fair for all. (not possible) but its possible for it to be much better and fairer. I know people doing the same job as me for a different employer earning %60 of what i earn .. How is this fair? ITS NOT and it needs to be addressed. The tech and resources are there to create a much fairer system but it involves much closer intergration of seperate businesses that essentially do the same thing. But greed and power hunger will ensure this will never happen as us humans are selfish!

a reply to: Oldskool88



Automation is going to make millions and millions of people obsolete. If plans are not made for this change, change will make the plans.
And that is no way to have it and it will get ugly.