Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

a reply to: mirageman

Here is a crazy idea.

Tom was "inspired" by Elizondo to do the whole TTSA thing, exploiting his rock star status and popularity to sell the story. But Tom, being an UFO amateur at best, totally blew it. So Elizondo decided take over himself.

a reply to: moebius

Who knows?

Another small thing that I don't think has been mentioned so far in the thread. Apologies if it has. Apparently Dr. Hal Puthoff helped Bigelow (BAASS) land the contract with the government to study UFOs by writing the proposal for it!

One of the scientists who helped figure it out is a physicist named Dr. Hal Puthoff. He wrote the proposal that helped Bigelow land the contract to study UFOs, and in a recent radio interview, he said he commissioned 38 scientific papers during the study to explore exotic propulsion ideas, including what he calls space-time metric engineering. In essence, the idea that the Gimbal and Tic Tac craft can create their own space-time bubbles.

"We believe it has to do with a high amount of energy and the ability to warp space-time, not by a lot, but by a little," said Elizondo.

Source : Las Vegas Now

a reply to: mirageman

in your opinion what's your take on puthoff?

you've compounded more research than me on where he fits in both in the history and player wise of the ufo/paranormal field.

from my perspective he happens to frequently insert himself (or be inserted by his employers?) into projects that seem to have some degree of misinformation paraded out for mass consumption.

look at the "experiments" he and Targ did together. then there was his paper on metric engineering that was a periphrastic algebraic circlejerk to describe mass renormalization (which explains nothing groundbreaking) that he tried to pass off as metric engineering and ufo propulsion. (possibly as a red herring?)

i mean, you got a guy who proposes ufo propulsion ideas that any decent physicist working for the govt will shoot down after looking it over for an afternoon and a govt who knows his metric engineering papers are crap putting him in charge of studying ufo propulsion on their behalf? that seems incredibly stupid.

could it be more likely puthoff makes a good disinfo asset and is placed on these teams that gain public attention such as bigalow, ttsa and others on purpose. to exploit the arrogance of "big players" that are legends in their own minds. is puthoff a lesser more specialized version of doty?

I dunno nothing I write on ats gets more than a passing glance and then gets written off, but maybe that's the right angle to consider guys like puthoff?

a reply to: BASSPLYR

I don't want to insult people well-known by my friend,
but I did give you a star. It' a good question.

a reply to: BASSPLYR

A star from me too.

a reply to: mirageman

en.wikipedia.org...

is the usual reference.

IMHO the stupendous amounts of energy required for this concept
are the REAL discovery we need.

If you could generate that kind of power.. you could use it to throw
bricks out the tail end of a little read wagon and attain
.1 of light speed.

Now I see something that was puzzling me..

All this talk about the large amounts of power which the
Phenomenon generates.... that's what they want...
to power their little warp drive.

But the truth?

If they could harness the weather effects that make
BOl or the seismic effects that make BOL,

then they'd have some serious power..

or if they cold catch a "pixie" in a jar.. that's some
serious power.

But they won't be able to do any of those things..

So it's pure and simple BS. The whole thing..
other than the antenna affect..

which amazes me that they got one thing right.

Well sort of.

Kev

a reply to: BASSPLYR

in your opinion what's your take on puthoff?

Oh that's a very good question indeed. Along with the accompanying speculation you provided.

But one I don't feel I can answer in depth. I've never really looked at the man's career in detail. Nor why he always seems to be lingering when these 'projects' are unveiled.

Wiki describes him as

....an American engineer and parapsychologist...

I don't know how many others have been awarded that label. But I would doubt there are many.

It also says

He then worked with, and invented, tunable lasers and electron beam devices...

Which is very impressive. Most other mortals never achieve as much in their lives.

But everything else he works on seems to be a little unclear. He did all that remote-viewing work. But if it was really any good why do we still have spy satellites and errr spies? He has his own EarthTech International, Inc. dedicated to "new frontiers in the physics of spaceflight energy and propulsion".

But has he actually made any major breakthroughs in these fields?

His company seems to be funded "from anonymous donors". Is it possible he may be treading a path of meaningless research? But, as you theorize, is utilised as an asset when the time comes? It's a very interesting thought. Most people are retired by the age of 81 though. So why is Puthoff still working in this field?

This honestly I don't know. I probably need to read more than a Wikipedia page.

I guess if most of his work is in the 'black' world then a lot is concealed anyway. But maybe he's a 'useful genius' for reasons beyond my own comprehension.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Well there has been a small funded project looking at the Hessdalen lights for some 30 odd years now.

You've probably seen this video before? I often use it because it's just over 5 minutes and explains the phenomena well.



Some believe it will lead to the answer to a clean and powerful energy source. It may well do.

But I also doubt that it will provide the energy to warp space/time and provide us with a gateway to the stars.

a reply to: mirageman

there are tons of people willing to fund even the 1% chance that one of the
"promising kooks" in the world strike something lucky.

In one's early career you do something solid, so people think that you are
not a total flake.

Me for example.. I was an engineroom supervisor for nuclear reactors
for 7 years.. managed 80 men too. Made couple million on a home
business with a 7 page website. Have done lots of computing stuff
for 30 years. Had a secret clearance. Know a few people.

So that's my calling card.. why people listen to me (somewhat) about
more theoretical subjects.

That's how it goes in the "strange business".

Kev

a reply to: mirageman

Why Hessdalen?

One of the researchers or locals probably has the antenna.

If that person or persons die, then the effect might go away.

That seems to be what happened at Skin Walker Ranch..
once that last "believer" guard stopped working there,
the effects cut way back.

These sorts of data sets are why there IS an antenna
project no doubt.

K

PS: and the "faeries" may be charmed by the natives
quaint accent and good disposition.

since America got taken over by idiots some years
ago.. that might be why the Golden Age of UFOs
phenomenon stopped.... us Yanks became
butt heads.

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

They've been studying Hessdalen since 1984 and the known sightings go back generations.

www.hessdalen.org...

I doubt it's anything to do with the antenna effect personally.

The local population is less than 200 people. It seems to be a form of earth light that has been around since before WWII and is regularly seen. It may well pave the way to a new and clean energy if we ever find out the source.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

Hessdalen is high latitude so there were likely ionospheric heaters involved with "the lights" UFO.
Is there some interesting WW2 era history concerning ionospheric reflectivity that has never been told?
The Tesla Wardenclyffe Tower heated the Ionosphere, whatever they discovered would have been a carefully guarded secret in those years from 1907 to 1917.

a reply to: Cauliflower

Doubt it. Dig in to Erling Strands notes on their observations. The lights respond to lasers and other strange behavior.

Here is a good interview. inceptionradionetwork.com...

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

They've been studying Hessdalen since 1984 and the known sightings go back generations.

www.hessdalen.org...

I doubt it's anything to do with the antenna effect personally.

The local population is less than 200 people. It seems to be a form of earth light that has been around since before WWII and is regularly seen. It may well pave the way to a new and clean energy if we ever find out the source.

You misunderstood.

I fully agree it's earthlights.

but antenna people are sorta "electrified".

Kev

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I agree warping space like the way albcubierre proposes is unfeasible due to the asinine power requirements. good thing it's not how the nuts n bolts vehicles get around and don't need power sources beyond what mankind can already portably supply for these assets.

originally posted by: BASSPLYR
a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I agree warping space like the way albcubierre proposes is unfeasible due to the asinine power requirements. good thing it's not how the nuts n bolts vehicles get around and don't need power sources beyond what mankind can already portably supply for these assets.

Agree with part A.
Won't go roundy roundy on part B!

a reply to: BASSPLYR

in your opinion what's your take on puthoff?

I'll answer that:

Ingo Swann begins to take Scientology services. At about the same time, Swann tenders his two-year notice for resignation from his permanent contract with the United Nations Secretariat in New York.[44]
NSA's Hal Puthoff enrolls in Scientology services. [NOTE: Puthoff will somehow get past or around the Hubbard injunction against members of a "Suppressive Group" being allowed access to the upper levels of Scientology, and by 1971 Puthoff will have attained the highest level, OT VII. See January 1971.

And:

Harold "Hal" Puthoff from NSA and Ingo Swann from the UN enroll in Scientology, supposedly unknown to each other. Within five years they will be at the highest levels of Scientology and under secret contract with CIA to develop remote viewing for military intelligence.

SOURCE

That should just about sum it up for you. No surprise his wikipedia page has no mention of Scientology.

Double agent? Master manipulator? He's probably an honorary member of The Aviary.

a reply to: ColdWisdom

the Owl is considered a sign of arcane knowledge and extreme wisdom.
somebody really liked him, when assigning supposed titles.

a reply to: KellyPrettyBear

I'm more than familiar with the recurring symbolism of the owl.

That being said, he probably picked the owl codename himself.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: 1ofthe9

The first half of the show was a discussion about Doty. It was interesting. But it's not really relevant to this thread.

I don't listen religiously (pun intended) to Church but I know in the days after the 'To the Stars Academy (TTSA)' launch he was very much in favour of it. Here he seemed to be very scathing. The criticism was almost totally based around the use of the 'mylar' birthday balloon. Even getting the guy who debunked the photos (back in 2005 as part of a wholly different UFO case) Steve Mera on the phone to talk about.

Dolan was more cautious where the photo was concerned stating perhaps it was a genuine mistake. However Mera had contacted various people including "TTSA" with no reply. Dolan & Jimmy Church were both saying they'd had more than 2 months to issue clarification and apologies. So far nothing has been forthcoming.

There was some discussion about the videos released by TTSA. It was mentioned that one was from an incident on the East Coast of the USA and the other had been around since 2007 (ATS I believe was name-checked at that point.) Throwing huge doubts about what was really going on.

Richard Dolan did briefly mention that he couldn't understand how the TTSA project could actually work in reality as it would take $billions to do what they claimed to be doing. However that was as far as it went.

So yes, people are paying attention to ATS. Perhaps not enough attention though.

There was no mention of the peculiar financial arrangements in the offer documents. There was not talk that TTSA has only 3 full time employees and that Elizondo is not listed at all. Nothing about FOIA searches (so far) turning up no information on the AATIP project or even Elizondo's apparently non-existent resignation letter to the DoD. No links back to Bigelow were really discussed nor the talk of retrieved UAP alloys.

Take it all at face value and it seems Church has turned against the project. Dolan, although he carefully chose his words, was also doubtful of where it was headed.

However we also have to consider that maybe other agendas are at work. Both Church and Dolan have shows on the KGRA network. Maybe they are finding the information loops have now been closed down on them? . It might just be the need to appear ahead of the game and not look foolish if this TTSA all falls apart. But that would all be speculation.

Yet the biggest question is what has happened to Tommy of Long?

It seems like ever since October he's been told to shut up and leave it to the big boys. Who have done a much better job of things.

Well if Church is reading this - you know what you need to address.

There was a paper on lowering the power needed for the warp bubbles a few years ago (to something near-term manageable)...I can go dig it up if anyone requires. The Scientology link is...disquieting. Hell, a lot of this is disquieting.