Bigelow, UFOs, MUFON and ‘DeLonge’ Road to AATIP

originally posted by: mirageman

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: pigsy2400

Yeah, this deal might be like when Hitler as an army spy went to the National Socialists to check them out he ended up joining them and there’s history.

Of course, I’m not comparing TTSA to the Nazis, though you never know

They do experiments on people don't they and yet Zondo refuses to talk about it!!!

A slight correction to what Zondo's role was at the Pentagon as well.

It should read "Director for the National Programs Special Management Staff" (in the Office of the Secretary of Defense). We've now got a clearer copy. I got about 80% of it right. But you should refer to the copy as below.

I suspect this was a draft as he obviously spelt "Deferred" incorrectly as "Differed" in the subject line. So we now know that as suspected way back in the thread he didn't actually 'resign' but it was part of an early retirement package.

It looks like he was being sincere but is obviously sugar coated with compliments. It's obvious that TTSA are just releasing stuff they already have possession of and passing them onto to their favourite news anchor at regular intervals. There was a lot more stuff on the site before it got slapped with a password protection. Seems like a game of cat and mouse with the Pentagon.

Ha hahahahahahhahahaah

I like that.

I just hope they are laughing too

Ha hahahahahahhahahaah

They might send a Milab after us
Ha hahahahahahhahahaah

F___ em!!! The lying bastards
Ha hahahahahahhahahaah

The embarrassing thing is that this was placed on Chris Mellon's website.

globalsecurityissues.com

For a few hours this Zondo note (maybe he never even sent it if FOIA requests are turning up nothing?) and a number of other documents with some revealing details about witnesses and contact details were left open and readable on that website. I actually saw them myself. Next a password protection was put on the site. Now it's currently been taken down altogether.

Was this to be the next news in your nap? I don't know. But someone screwed up badly. As Director of Globals Security and Special Programs (or DOGS and SProgs for short) you'd think Zondo would want someone's head on a plate for such a sloppy action.

a reply to: mirageman

All clowning aside, what or where is this letter from?
It’s not, btw, a grammatically well-written letter at all, not that that means anything
When he says he humbly resigns, he should have said he regretfully resigns.
No one humbly resigns, that is a strange way to phrase that

I suspect this was a draft as he obviously spelt "Deferred" incorrectly as "Differed" in the subject line. So we now know that as suspected way back in the thread he didn't actually 'resign' but it was part of an early retirement package.

A deferred retirement is a very early retirement( usually maybe 10 years) when an individual gets a smaller than usual pension at a later date

22 years is usually too long for such a retirement, that length would be called an early retirement.

To my mind, this is all part of a concocted phony narrative for the TTSA history.

The idea that all of a sudden the US military is thinking about a threat from this 70-year-old phenomenon is ridiculous.

These are clear signs this is a phony endeavor, and unfortunately, they have duped people with another BS group. But this group is proactive and I suspect maybe dangerously full of disinformation

It's good where watching this group

Howdy Y’all. These have probably been posted here and if so I apologize for the duplication. I’m behind on reading the OP but came across two articles (excerpted here) at Jack Brewer’s excellent blog, The UFO Trail. Also: As I'm reading backwards, WOW excellent stuff in the few pages I've read so far.

I know we’ve been told by some that there is no rigid link between TTSA & Skinwalker Ranch, but it seems that those of us that are sure there is are not alone.

Samples of debris reportedly recovered by Frank Kimbler at what he believed to be the vicinity of the storied Roswell crash site were provided to Hal Puthoff's Earth Tech and Robert Bigelow's BAASS, each later named as key figures in a Pentagon-funded UFO investigation project in a much discussed Dec. 16, 2017, NYT article.

As many are aware, the Times piece described what came to be known as the Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program, among other titles, which reportedly operated from at least 2007 through 2011. 

A 2011 blog post at The UFO Trail suggested Kimbler provided samples for testing to Puthoff and Bigelow, the latter of which the Times described as directing the modification of buildings in Las Vegas for storing materials recovered from unidentified aerial phenomena. Puthoff informed Kimbler of the availability of funding assistance for possible further testing, according to a 2011 email from Kimbler.


Several websites are effectively pursuing likely sources of claims of stored materials, including blogs written by Keith Basterfield, Jason Colavito, and Robert Sheaffer. Worthy analysis of the "alloys" aspect of the evolving AATIP story was also published at Daily Grail. The Kimbler saga might add yet another piece to the puzzle. Researchers are largely forced to untangle the web on their own, as those claiming to be in the know are selectively releasing incomplete statements, often struggling with reasonable follow up questions if not altogether ignoring them.

AATIP Crew Handled Kimbler Roswell Debris

The latest FOIA swing and miss further questions the context of a public statement credited to Bigelow Aerospace Advanced Space Studies (BAASS) published in conjunction with an update from reporter George Knapp's team. Such references in the statement to viewing "the human body as a readout system for UFO effects by utilizing forensic technology, the tools of immunology, cell biology, genomics and neuroanatomy" led some researchers to suspect inferences to the Skinwalker project, as was directly claimed related to DIA-funded research by select members and associates of To The Stars Academy.

It is unclear exactly how the Skinwalker Ranch may be involved with the Advanced Aviation Threat Identification Program (AATIP), seemingly derived from the Advanced Aerospace Weapon System Applications Program (AAWSAP), and funded by the DIA as reported in a high profile NY Times article and by a Pentagon spokesperson. 

DIA: No Docs on NIDS

edit on 8-8-2018 by The GUT because: (no reason given)

Elizondo worked as a director of "National Programs Special Management Staff", which apparently is sometimes abbreviated to NPSMS. Does anyone have any idea what it does or how large group it is?

I have found one statement saying "The NPSMS is the office responsible for administering the special access program for the Office of Military Commissions".

a reply to: Willtell

All clowning aside, what or where is this letter from?
It’s not, btw, a grammatically well-written letter at all, not that that means anything

As above. This was on the website of Chris Mellon (TTSA - National Security Affairs Advisor). They have Zondo for Global Security and Mellon for National Security)!

Yes the grammar was poor. But he's not necessarily a writer. I suspect this was probably a draft letter. In fact, given that certain individuals put in a FOIA request and were told it didn't exist (not that it wasn't available via FOIA), then perhaps it wasn't even sent through official channels and was a private letter. Or maybe it never got sent at all.

A deferred retirement is a very early retirement...

I am not familiar with the terminology so that confuses me a bit. But my suspicions a few months back were that Zondo took advantage of the cuts the Pentagon were making. I think he took some form of Voluntary Severance Package (early retirement if you like) as it fits in with the time line.

The Pentagon is cutting 25 percent from its headquarters staff by 2020. Despite objections by DoD, the 2017 defense authorization bill makes future cuts to headquarters staff and puts ceilings on the number of people the department can have on its headquarters payroll.

A handful of critics think DoD’s staff has expanded far beyond its need.....

Source

Also Leslie Kane used the phrase retire in this interview

However poor grammar, inexact wording, loose terminology, and sloppy internet security are just a handful of problems with this organization.

a reply to: mirageman

I wonder what they release next now this is already out there?

a reply to: mirageman

Thanks for the clarity

The point is they're trying to create a narrative about this disgruntled agent quitting (humbly retiring) and sincerely going over to the other side with access to UFO information.

The idea regarding this letter being bad grammar isn’t really what I was trying to convey as being pertinent, even though I said it. It appears to be just another nuanced attempt to reinforce a FAKE narrative of a disgruntled (ordinary agent) who retires “humbly”( a ridiculous term to utter in those circumstances, he should have said, he regrets). Now this is, granted, a small point but it reflects on the cheap psychology they’re doing to fool us.
It sounds on the surface legit to unsuspecting novices in Ufo history

These CIA connected people and this guy and his obviously FAKE history is a clear sign to people who know that this is all a bogus group and a continuation of the government UFO disinformation program.

A Doty upgrade, for sure, but still an obvious con job on the credulous UFO community and the newly interested people who were drawn to this from the mainstream articles about TTSA and these related groups.

Parenthetically, I want to emphasize that the reality of the mainstream interest in this story, and the fact that they didn't, as they usually do, mock the story, is a sure indication of the intelligence operation behind TTSA. IMO.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: mirageman

Thanks for the clarity

The point is they're trying to create a narrative about this disgruntled agent quitting (humbly retiring) and sincerely going over to the other side with access to UFO information.

The idea regarding this letter being bad grammar isn’t really what I was trying to convey as being pertinent, even though I said it. It appears to be just another nuanced attempt to reinforce a FAKE narrative of a disgruntled (ordinary agent) who retires “humbly”( a ridiculous term to utter in those circumstances, he should have said, he regrets). Now this is, granted, a small point but it reflects on the cheap psychology they’re doing to fool us.
It sounds on the surface legit to unsuspecting novices in Ufo history

These CIA connected people and this guy and his obviously FAKE history is a clear sign to people who know that this is all a bogus group and a continuation of the government UFO disinformation program.

A Doty upgrade, for sure, but still an obvious con job on the credulous UFO community and the newly interested people who were drawn to this from the mainstream articles about TTSA and these related groups.

Parenthetically, I want to emphasize that the reality of the mainstream interest in this story, and the fact that they didn't, as they usually do, mock the story, is a sure indication of the intelligence operation behind TTSA. IMO.

I am not sure, if I agree with everything so say, but yesterday I stumbled on an old board post by John Lear, which is 14 years old, but seem to describe the actual situation very well :

Post by johnlear » 08-26-2004 10:08 AM
Just wanted to clarify that NIDS is one of the most clever government disinformation programs on public record. When Bob Bigelow got interested in UFO's in 1989 he hired Bob Lazar as his Chief Scientist, provided him with a lab, computers and anything else Bob required. I can't remember the exact name of the company but it was something like "Zeta Reticuli Enterprises", something like that. Well things went along OK for about a month but it seemed like Bob wanted to pursue a lot of other interests in addition to ZRE and wasn't at the lab 8 hours a day. It seems that Bigelow wanted to drop in at any time at the lab during the normal workday and see what Bob was working on. So the endeavor came to friendly halt and Bigelow began looking for other places to put his millions and million of dollars he had to blow on his all-consuming UFO interest. He found 3 major UFO groups and gave them some money. There is one thing the government doesn't like and thats someone with money who is interested in UFO's and has the money to finance that interest. So the government devises a plan to cleverly divert that money and the plan was this; they approach Bigelow on a covert (don't tell anybody we're here) mission and "confidentially" tell him that they (the government) would also like to find out about UFO's but that the termination of the Robertson Panel in 1969 put an end to that. But if he, Bigelow, could see his way clear to giving them a few bucks that they would 'put their best men on it'. Bigelow, impressed that the government would come to him for money and said 'sure'. 'Oh...by the way', (said the government). Bob (Bigelow) '...you need to stop giving those other UFO organizations any money because we are the 'real thing' and they are embarrassing us.' Bob says 'Uh...sure'. Bob quietly stops funding the other UFO organizations and starts pumping money into the 'secret government UFO research'. The government feeds Bob a lot of BS about how instead of looking for "Flying Saucers" they suggest looking into the paranormal and other avenues which will 'produce a lot more useful information' than those crazy 'lights in the sky'. 'And, oh, by the way, that crazy Lazar you were in business was just a phony, running cathouses on the side,' they told Bob in the 'strictest of confidence'. They then gave Bigelow a special 'secret' clearance, a badge and some aerospace contracts to 'sweeten' the deal. And that, in my opinion, is how NIDS came about. P.S.: most all the names working for NIDS are all guys from the 'Aviary' and researchers already working for the government AND a few legitimate private UFO researchers that actually think that NIDS is real, honest to goodness private UFO research company.. Oh, and this report about Black Triangles....whoaaaa baby.....maybe I'm wrong about NIDS!!!!!

www.fantasticforum.com...

a reply to: Willtell

I have my suspicions that this resignation letter is a 'draft' and obviously not the real letter (if one was ever sent).

Just like the Nimitz report and possibly even Harry Reid's letter. These are not the final copies that were sent on. Thus avoiding any legal complications over 'leaking' the actual documents and obviously attempts at making the Pentagon look like they are lying about their none existence.

It would seem that TTSA are just leaking their own documents to George Knapp. Of course they are still drip feeding us but interest is on the wane now. Maybe they have something up their sleeves for after the US mid-term elections. I guess politics plays a part in all of this. Zondo has also hinted at a 'different conversation' taking place this time next year. What that actually means I can only guess at.

a reply to: TheMadScientist2

Thanks for that. I am not sure I agree with Mr. Lear there. But it is interesting and seem plausible. I have heard recently he's in poor health. If that is the case then I wish him a speedy recovery.

a reply to: TheMadScientist2

Thanks for that it’s very topical and applicable to these new groups

Mr. Bigelow has produced one thing towards UFOlogy, an opinion, that’s it.


I said long ago that if a person with money or interest in UFO's, TDL for example; when they start talking about UFOS they’ll be enveloped like he has been by intelligence operators...

They put the whole team on his behind.

Equivalent to his interest and the fact that he has some money

They WOULD NOT have let TDL come out on his own without all these intelligence operators by his side

originally posted by: Nickless
Elizondo worked as a director of "National Programs Special Management Staff", which apparently is sometimes abbreviated to NPSMS. Does anyone have any idea what it does or how large group it is?

I have found one statement saying "The NPSMS is the office responsible for administering the special access program for the Office of Military Commissions".

I've not forgotten this but I've come up almost blank myself after a quick search on the web.

This job ad confirms the role is to:

Work directly for the National Program Special Management Staff (NPSMS) leadership and will support efforts to assess, develop, coordinate and implement strategic guidance/policies that directly affect program security.

There are a couple of other ads which look like they are for the same job or type of job.

The OUSD(I) would also mean "Under Secretary of Defense for Intelligence" office.

a reply to: Willtell


Well according to Mr TDL himself he was the one who asked for the "advisors" not before an "apparent" debrief by 6 alphabetti spaghettis though, allegedly.

I wonder when Lockheeds next bbq is, might pop along myself and see if they have the that droid I was looking for.

a reply to: pigsy2400

Well according to Mr TDL himself he was the one who asked for the "advisors" not before an "apparent" debrief by 6 alphabetti spaghettis though, allegedly.

This was sort of one version of the story.....



Another one was he met "shady intelligence operative (surely not Doty!)" in a cafe and mentions this guy brushing the waitress away. So which was it Tom? The General or the intelligence guy? There you go about the young adults again. What's with that? You're twice as old as them dude!

I wonder when Lockheeds next bbq is, might pop along myself and see if they have the that droid I was looking for.

Maybe Wallace and Gromit can help you on that one?

Oh and the C2C AM interview with Zondo is now up on Youtube so you can all hear what we were talking about back on page 143 of this thread.

I don't think it's the entire interview. But you get 40 mins. A proportion of which seemed to be nitpicking the critics on social media.



Judge for yourselves if there was total bias towards TTSA and unfair criticism of the internet naysayers.

Time to get the popcorn boys. If they were angry about us before...

(unless they did this to honeypot us or something)

a reply to: pigsy2400

Oh Yeah, but every con man or con always sees the mark coming and knows how to manipulate them to do what they want.

Who in there right f_____ mind would ask for Intel and military advisors FOR ANYTHING (talk about naïve, my goodness) let alone government confidants on this very national security issue about ufos.

Like a pom-pom girl asking for pimps to escort her to the prom.

What are they talking about?

It’s a rah, rah, talk seems to me. Knapp is a super cheerleader for them

This guy is saying the TTSA is equivalent to people fighting in wars!

They are making so much out of what amounts to nothing

What I don’t get is that zondo here speaks routinely that AATIP wasn’t taken down. Then what was his gripe? What did he resign from? Nothing?

They say the program was very successful and everything was honky dory, then what’s this disgruntled guy retiring early in protest over what?


Article from Dec 2017

www.cnn.com...

Elizondo told The New York Times he resigned from the Department of Defense in October in protest over what he called excessive secrecy surrounding the program and internal opposition to it after funding for the effort ended in 2012.

On the Youtube he clearly says the program didn't stop.

Whats the truth?