After you get through the gates of heaven what is eternal heavenly bliss like

originally posted by: SecretsoftheBlueApples
Why did you have an argument about something neither one of you have experience with or direct knowledge? Seems to me you'd be better off seeking answers at www.thisguntasteslikepennies.com

It was on the Monday after Easter. He was in a really good mood because his church had a passion play. I asked him, "So Ron, did you have a great weekend?" He said, "Yes, it was great. Did you get to go to chuch?" I said, "I'm not a church going man." He put his head down and got tight lipped. I had to go to a business meeting. 2 hours later I come back to the office and he's in the corner. He''s really figitity at his desk. I know he was going to come over to me and say something. He finally walks over and we started to have this knock down drag out discussion about religion. At one point I just said, "look Ron, I can listen to anyone on the pulpit pretending to be God. I believe absolute authority comes from within." At which point he said the most amazing thing, "Who told you that?" And that moment I had a flash of insight that no matter what happens in our conversation Ron would never be able to think for himself and grasp what I was saying. Ron had to be told or programmed what to think by an outside authority. And since I was not his authority nothing I would ever say would make sense to him.

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: dfnj2015

It's hard for me to accept a God of love would be so cruel as to allow his Creations to suffer for all eternity.
Don't bother arguing dogma with the cult of churchianity , they have to believe or they are going to Hell, too.

Belief or non belief on doctrine or dogma does not save or condemn. It is the belief or the unbelief on Jesus Christ substitutionary death on the cross for you that saved or unsaved from hell.

originally posted by: ChesterJohn

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: dfnj2015

It's hard for me to accept a God of love would be so cruel as to allow his Creations to suffer for all eternity.
Don't bother arguing dogma with the cult of churchianity , they have to believe or they are going to Hell, too.

Belief or non belief on doctrine or dogma does not save or condemn. It is the belief or the unbelief on Jesus Christ substitutionary death on the cross for you that saved or unsaved from hell.

You would think an omnipotent God would save everyone by using his omnipotent powers to rehabilitate the sinners in some kind of training camp. Why waste any souls when ALL of them could be redeemed.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Did you know that the Roman Catholic / Evangelical Easter they claim to be the resurrection day. If we follow the exact calendar of the Jews, the resurrection day of Jesus Christ this year fell on the Thursday April 20th of our Julian Calendar.

So when it talks about Easter in the Act, it is speaking of a pagan Holiday that Herod was a follower of, not a Christian holiday as many would want it to be. This is why Easter bunny's and Egg hunts are not for Bible believing people at all.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Your key word is "Could". not will not should by hang on could. Yeah He could do that but then it goes against his character. So he made it easy

It is because you are you own person and you are made for eternity, You are a sinner and thereby need saving he gave you a way and if you don't choose that way there is noway for you.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: ChesterJohn

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: dfnj2015

It's hard for me to accept a God of love would be so cruel as to allow his Creations to suffer for all eternity.
Don't bother arguing dogma with the cult of churchianity , they have to believe or they are going to Hell, too.

Belief or non belief on doctrine or dogma does not save or condemn. It is the belief or the unbelief on Jesus Christ substitutionary death on the cross for you that saved or unsaved from hell.

You would think an omnipotent God would save everyone by using his omnipotent powers to rehabilitate the sinners in some kind of training camp. Why waste any souls when ALL of them could be redeemed.

No thats not how God works or our free will works

God sends an invitation, it is the personal choice to accept

We are made in Gods image, we have the capacity to decide for ourselves

If God forced salvation on a person, would that be love

originally posted by: ChesterJohn
a reply to: dfnj2015

Did you know that the Roman Catholic / Evangelical Easter they claim to be the resurrection day. If we follow the exact calendar of the Jews, the resurrection day of Jesus Christ this year fell on the Thursday April 20th of our Julian Calendar.

So when it talks about Easter in the Act, it is speaking of a pagan Holiday that Herod was a follower of, not a Christian holiday as many would want it to be. This is why Easter bunny's and Egg hunts are not for Bible believing people at all.

No, we Christians are allowed to celebrate pagan festivals.
Dont put your religion on us, if your christianity is so weak, fine, mine doesnt bother fearing pagan holidays

Romans 14:1-23 ESV

As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. ...


Colossians 2:16 ESV
Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath.

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: ChesterJohn

originally posted by: intrptr
a reply to: dfnj2015

It's hard for me to accept a God of love would be so cruel as to allow his Creations to suffer for all eternity.
Don't bother arguing dogma with the cult of churchianity , they have to believe or they are going to Hell, too.

Belief or non belief on doctrine or dogma does not save or condemn. It is the belief or the unbelief on Jesus Christ substitutionary death on the cross for you that saved or unsaved from hell.

You would think an omnipotent God would save everyone by using his omnipotent powers to rehabilitate the sinners in some kind of training camp. Why waste any souls when ALL of them could be redeemed.

How do you know that isn't what life is?

And not everyone who goes to a rehab comes out clean on the other side.

In the end, the sheep are separated from the goats.

a reply to: AMPTAH

In the bible this Hell is referred to as "the pit".

In The Gospel of Thomas, for example, we find the saying,



Jesus said, "If a blind man leads a blind man, they will both fall into a pit." -- The Gospel of Thomas #34

I don't think you caught the meaning of this scripture. He said A pit... not THE pit. It makes sense as well. If a blind person walks around with no help and no walking tool, he's liable to fall into a hole (if one is around, of course). In other words, he's likely to stumble. If he's leading another blind man... they'll both end up in the same hole. If a blind man is led by someone who can see, he'll be ok.

It's not saying blind men are going to hell. (THE pit vs A pit)

I get that the idea is about mankind falling from folly but it's not speaking of hell. It's speaking of a literal obstacle. If the bible does mention hell as A pit or The pit... it's not that which you quoted.

I guess the only way we can imagine is from all the things people tell us, what we read and what others have 'supposedly' seen. There are many sources, similar and different from one another from so many belief systems that shines a little and sometime no light on the subject. All I can do is imagine based on what I 'kind of' feel is right on the inside.

Hell:

- it's like being in a pitch dark place (or lack of). Unable to see. No one around. Empty, eternal in every direction, no sounds, nothing to touch, nothing that the senses can detect. Only you. Only your thoughts, hearing your own words (if that) but having eternity to interact with your own thoughts, your own feelings, your regrets.

You have this with NO ONE around but only you. You exist in all of your loneliness forever and eternal. You're alone in your head, detached from anything and everything.

The hardest and worst part... It's forever! ...and it's self made. You trap yourself and simply wont, for some reason, let all that guilt and sadness go, only to wallow in it willingly because it's all you know. No matter how much you want out, you keep yourself there.


Heaven:

I have no idea. I suppose it involves learning all of the mysteries of God for all eternity. Like each and every day, you find out another truth and you explore it. I guess the best way to explain it would be as if you were an archaeologist and every day you discover a new ancient city. Knowledge!

No need for money. Everything you need is there for you. No chains of regret, jealousy, hatred, all the things that make us ugly. Comforted in spirit for all eternity and no pain, no death, no hardships, no heartaches.

Finally.. peace.

But truly... I have not one clue. Only what I feel inside that 'might' be the right answer.

a reply to: AMPTAH

That partly how we know what heaven and hell are like.

Don't twist that beautiful passage into Church dogma about "Heaven and Hell".

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: intrptr

And he always needs money!

When Greed became renamed Thrift, this made it 'okay' to chase money.

Now the churchians can have their cake and eat it too.

a reply to: ChesterJohn

Believe you are 'saved' is ignorant. Can a criminal believe he will be let go for his crimes?

You can believe anything you like, most church dogma is based on that.
Don't question just 'believe' it.

Now go be a jerk all week but remember to come back next week for absolution from your sins. As long as you believe.... never doubt... thats the devil...

meh.

a reply to: intrptr

I am not a Roman Catholic, I don't live a wicked life 6 days a week and differently once a week. I am a sinner saved by grace through faith on Jesus.

Once again you attack the messenger and not the message.

A violation if the T&C here at ATS.

a reply to: Raggedyman

Just another Bible for sale version lining the pockets of those who enslave you in sin.

You do know there is a difference between a Holyday and a festival?

Col 2:16 ¶ Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days

originally posted by: AMPTAH

originally posted by: drz400
This website provides real accounts of people who claim to have died and experienced bliss...

Read some of these. They're addicting.

Internation Association of Near Death Experiences

Near death experiences is not the same as dying.

First of all, most of those near death experiences are positive, all love and light and such.

Real death is much different.

If you want to know what real death is like, it's completely described in detail in the "Tibetan Book of the Dead."

The entire drama from death in this life, through the various bardo states, until re-birth in the next life after this one.

Much of it is scary as hell. Don't believe the near death reports. They haven't actually died yet.

And someone who has ACTUALLY died could never write about it since well, they are dead. And since reincarnation isn't real, there are no real reports of 'what it's like to be dead '.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Nonsense. Maybe in Hell you experience what other people felt that you sinned against as experienced in their eyes and skin

You declare nonsense with confident assertion, and then state 'Maybe' in your next statement?!?
Seriously?!?
"I categorically dismiss your statement with my......guess."
I maintain, no-one has the ability to grasp what perpetual regret looks like.
You wouldn't be in a position to discuss it if you were.
Perpetual regret removes the possibility of transferring hindsight's bitter conclusions to others,
removing any possibility of the ego driven perceived wisdom from outside sources, and leaves you to marinade in the juices of your own foolishness, knowing no-one cares and nothing can be done.

originally posted by: StallionDuck
a reply to: AMPTAH
I don't think you caught the meaning of this scripture. He said A pit... not THE pit. It makes sense as well. If a blind person walks around with no help and no walking tool, he's liable to fall into a hole (if one is around, of course). In other words, he's likely to stumble. If he's leading another blind man... they'll both end up in the same hole. If a blind man is led by someone who can see, he'll be ok.

You're not wrong.

You're just missing the essential point of the teaching.

All these statements are "parables".

When dealing with a parable, there are many valid interpretations, all related in some way, but more importantly, there are "deeper" meanings to the simple sayings.

The art of speaking simply, yet teaching something deep and profound is just the Master's way.

You could fall into a pit in the road, or the pit of hell, all by following the blind who don't know the paths.

The analogy of the "pit" is deliberate allusion to the ultimate "pit"

which in the Holy Bible is refered to as...

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. -- KJV, Revelation 20:1

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, -- KJV, Revelation 20:2

The pit is one of those "cue" words, that refers to "hell" itself.

originally posted by: nightbringr

And someone who has ACTUALLY died could never write about it since well, they are dead. And since reincarnation isn't real, there are no real reports of 'what it's like to be dead '.

Of course, that's a very logical point of view you could take.

Science Fiction writers have demonstrated great imagination, so the Reincarnated Lamas of Tibet could all just be writing "creative spiritual fiction" the way we write "sci-fi" today.

Someone just sat down, and "imagined" what death must be like.

There's no way to prove it one way or another to you, while you're alive.

However, you can read this "sci-fi", memorise it, and then compare the details with the actual events that unfold when you pass on from this earth. Then you could "prove" one way or the other, whether your claim that nobody reincarnates is correct.

We all need that "proof" regardless of which side of the fence we sit on.

a reply to: AMPTAH

You take the blind men pit truism out of context.
Anyone in this life who falls into a pit has the possibility of climbing out or finding a way out.
Even the blind have the possibility of crying out, and someone else pulling them out of the pit.

Someone who is in a pit (especially a blind man who believes he can see and is leading others along his path,) is still capable of rescue. But such rescue is born of humility and brokenness. If such a person (a Pharisee) was prepared to admit they were stuck and had fallen and were unable to get out (no room for pride here,) the possibility of rescue is available.
It is also true that some would be so proud and stubborn they would refuse to admit their position and die there instead.

There is no such rescue or deliverance from 'The Pit'.