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Our Debt Doesn't Exist

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posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 02:01 PM
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originally posted by: bulwarkz
what do you mean, try again.


Try again as in your facts are not correct. Public/private banking existed at the nation's founding and was not a new concept when the Federal Reserve was created.


This system that is corrupt is your champion. F yeah we will try again. This 100 year experiment failed us all.


All you basically have done is groused that you're underpaid. Sounds like the issue isn't the Federal Reserve but you.




posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 02:08 PM
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originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Nothin

In my case 4 years studying economics and about twenty years working in financial service is my source.

It's s wide subject but will happily answer any questions and try and provide a source to any specific queries.


That's very generous of you. Thanks!

Do you see any potential, or viable alternatives, to having privately-controlled central banks?


Most central banks aren't privately controlled. Even the US Federal reserve, despite its convoluted structure, is effectively a part of the federal government.



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 02:10 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: ScepticScot
Your source is an advert for buying gold.


Figures.

Once I reclaim my ALL CAPS birth certificate I'm using that money to buy gold.


I was going to put the full amount in bitcoin myself.



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 02:13 PM
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Twist the reason - generation- skinny puppy



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 02:14 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: Nothin

Don't have a solution to propose, and don't have details to be focused-on and picked-apart.


Gotcha. It's more of a rant then.


Do we have a problem with some entities profiting from the sweat of another, or not?


Not enough detail. Who are the 'entities' profiting? What is the method of their profit? Are the people they are profiting from being compensated in any manner?



Second gotcha moment. Why?
It makes it look like the most important part of any thread, is being right, while someone else is "wrong".
Is that all this is : a battle of dueling nerds?
Winner? Loser? Who cares?

Thought it was intended to be overall, more of a discussion, than a personal rant, but there is perhaps indeed some indignation there.

Don't have any answers for you, nor your questions.

Wish you peace, for you and your loved-ones.



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 02:17 PM
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a reply to: Nothin


Because the entire thread is people complaining, conflating and confusing fiat currency vis a vis the Federal Reserve with their poor wages or station in life.

So which is why I asked; if this system doesn't work what do you want to replace it with? Answer: crickets chirping.



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 02:27 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Realtruth

Fiat currency and fractional reserve banking are completely separate things. You can have both together or either one without the other.

It's a good idea to have a basic understanding of economics, finance and history before believing every crack pot theory bout the federal reserve.
so as far as knowing our economic history i can assume keynesian economics was a rich mans ruse. You know, based upon debt now being registered in the trillions. All you smart and educated economist Keynes champions. Please tell me the plan to pay off trillions of debt. Iceland provides the answer, the only answer.
It is my favorite word EVER. It is odious. All this debt by deception is odious debt and all we, the actual people, have to do is say no, it is not our debt. It is odious debt and our politicians commited crimes tricking us and the private banks, well it is their debt. They are not too big to fail. They are too big not to fail actually. If it is not their failure and transfered to us, we are toast and all of our childre, and their children will never even come close to paying the debt. Eternal servitude through debt slavery.



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 02:29 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus
a reply to: Nothin


Because the entire thread is people complaining, conflating and confusing fiat currency vis a vis the Federal Reserve with their poor wages or station in life.

So which is why I asked; if this system doesn't work what do you want to replace it with? Answer: crickets chirping.
no, i am not complaining. I am pointing to facts and options. Unless you feel that it is complaing about parasites.



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 02:30 PM
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originally posted by: bulwarkz
no, i am not complaining. I am pointing to facts and options. Unless you feel that it is complaing about parasites.


Sure you are. Bitching about how you want more and you don't make enough.

That isn't the Federal Reserve's fault, it's your fault.



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 02:36 PM
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a reply to: anotherside

Best band that ever was



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 02:41 PM
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a reply to: bulwarkz

You know the biggest group of holders of US debt (after the federal government itself) is the US public. The debt is private sector savings.

The debt is just a mechanic of money creation in the US and is not in anyway comparable to private debt. No one really loans the US government money, how could they when it's the US Government that creates the money in the first place.

The US could transfer it's entire debt to federal reserve accounts and pay higher interest on that instead. The net effect would be the same but people would stop obsessing about how much debt the US has.



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 02:46 PM
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originally posted by: Plotus
You are correct, but no time for three odd hours of youtube videos.

My thoughts are, convert to Real Estate or some other Real property. Gold, Silver, Copper, Platinum, Exotic Cars


Those items aren't easy to barter and so may risk end up having zero value in a SHTF doomsday scenario.

I highly suggest considering ammunition, canned foods, bottled water, or cartons of cigarettes.
Also goods like coffee beans in air-sealed packaging or anything like this.

Stuff that everyone wants / needs and will last a very long time.
Even batteries, hygeine stuff like brushes cotton swabs shampoo, etc.

All of these items have a high desirability after doomsday and can be easily bartered for other items.
They are easy to stash and determine a value for.

Exotic cars will have zero value after the gas runs out, precious metals will have nearly no value aside of being paper weights because no one can agree on their value, and real estate will only be held by those with all of the supplies (especially guns and ammo).



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 02:47 PM
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a reply to: anotherside

this one rocks


edit on 23-12-2017 by RumLover because: (no reason given)



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 02:47 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Nothin

In my case 4 years studying economics and about twenty years working in financial service is my source.

It's s wide subject but will happily answer any questions and try and provide a source to any specific queries.


That's very generous of you. Thanks!

Do you see any potential, or viable alternatives, to having privately-controlled central banks?


Most central banks aren't privately controlled. Even the US Federal reserve, despite its convoluted structure, is effectively a part of the federal government.


Where do the profits from interest go?
Mostly to the government, with some being skimmed off into private hands?
What: if any, control, does the USA government have over the US Federal reserve?
Can the US Federal reserve be altered?
Who signs the paychecks, for US Federal reserve employees?



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 02:50 PM
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originally posted by: AugustusMasonicus

originally posted by: bulwarkz
what do you mean, try again.


Try again as in your facts are not correct. Public/private banking existed at the nation's founding and was not a new concept when the Federal Reserve was created.


This system that is corrupt is your champion. F yeah we will try again. This 100 year experiment failed us all.


All you basically have done is groused that you're underpaid. Sounds like the issue isn't the Federal Reserve but you.
You are either ignorant to fiat money vs. Real money or you are playing word games trying to act deceptive. I am not underpaid. I just do not think your typedeserves higher wages for what you do if it comes at the expense of the workers and producers. Money magic and material worship is not my thing. I do no have a job, a boss. But i work my ass off every day. I go to bed tired and wake up everyday the moment the sun peeks at the horizen with but a hint of light. Because i cannot wait to start each day. I try not to lie cheat or steal. I feel good and love my life as I have learned to be content with both plenty and scarcity and trouble.
I think our biggest problem is we are suffocated by the sociopaths that believe stealing our wages for themselves means they earned it. Money magic is the evil here. It is not money that is the root of all evil. It is the LOVE of money. In a just society, you guys that want to keep the right to manipulate currency would be seen as the lowest scum in existance. What do you bring to the table? That trillions in debt, you own it not me. Get a skill that helps more than just yourself and you won't be so worried about having more than you need and deserve.
The fault is in any system that rewards the parasite and steals from the provider/producer host

Fairwage not money magic. Currency should only be used for exchange of goods and services. Just shut wall street down. Parasites the lot of them. Instead of jailing everyone with an alternate system we are supposed to jail everyone that impedes progress in replacing the corruption we are faced with. It's all backwards and upside down



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 02:54 PM
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originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Nothin

In my case 4 years studying economics and about twenty years working in financial service is my source.

It's s wide subject but will happily answer any questions and try and provide a source to any specific queries.


That's very generous of you. Thanks!

Do you see any potential, or viable alternatives, to having privately-controlled central banks?


Most central banks aren't privately controlled. Even the US Federal reserve, despite its convoluted structure, is effectively a part of the federal government.


Where do the profits from interest go?
Mostly to the government, with some being skimmed off into private hands?
What: if any, control, does the USA government have over the US Federal reserve?
Can the US Federal reserve be altered?
Who signs the paychecks, for US Federal reserve employees?


Almost all profit goes to the government. The rest goes to the federal reserve member banks.

The federal has in theory operational independence which means it is told what to do but not how. In reality as it's power comes from Congress it effectively reports into the federal government.

No idea who signs the paychecks (Are they still a thing in the US?). I would assume the member banks.



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 02:56 PM
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originally posted by: bulwarkz
You are either ignorant to fiat money vs. Real money or you are playing word games trying to act deceptive.


Actually, the ignoramus in that regard is you. You have consistently confused the topic, obviously do not understand the words you are typing and are just regurgitating tropes you parroted from elsewhere. Not to mention you're one of those Freeman on the Land converts who thinks there is a magical ALL CAPS birth certificate tucked away in the United States Treasury that you could somehow cash out if you knew the proper words and their order of usage.


I am not underpaid. I just do not think your typedeserves higher wages for what you do if it comes at the expense of the workers and producers.


Sucks to be you then since my CEO is the one who decides what I get paid.


I think our biggest problem is we are suffocated by the sociopaths that believe stealing our wages for themselves means they earned it.


Who stole your wages and how did they do this?


Fairwage not money magic.


You sound salty and underpaid again.


Currency should only be used for exchange of goods and services.


As opposed to?






edit on 23-12-2017 by AugustusMasonicus because: Zazz 2020!



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 03:05 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Nothin

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Nothin

In my case 4 years studying economics and about twenty years working in financial service is my source.

It's s wide subject but will happily answer any questions and try and provide a source to any specific queries.


That's very generous of you. Thanks!

Do you see any potential, or viable alternatives, to having privately-controlled central banks?


Most central banks aren't privately controlled. Even the US Federal reserve, despite its convoluted structure, is effectively a part of the federal government.


Where do the profits from interest go?
Mostly to the government, with some being skimmed off into private hands?
What: if any, control, does the USA government have over the US Federal reserve?
Can the US Federal reserve be altered?
Who signs the paychecks, for US Federal reserve employees?


Almost all profit goes to the government. The rest goes to the federal reserve member banks.

The federal has in theory operational independence which means it is told what to do but not how. In reality as it's power comes from Congress it effectively reports into the federal government.

No idea who signs the paychecks (Are they still a thing in the US?). I would assume the member banks.

Hmmm: "member banks". Sounds all warm and fuzzy, no?



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 03:12 PM
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originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: bulwarkz

You know the biggest group of holders of US debt (after the federal government itself) is the US public. The debt is private sector savings.

The debt is just a mechanic of money creation in the US and is not in anyway comparable to private debt. No one really loans the US government money, how could they when it's the US Government that creates the money in the first place.

The US could transfer it's entire debt to federal reserve accounts and pay higher interest on that instead. The net effect would be the same but people would stop obsessing about how much debt the US has.
complete BS. The fed bought up all the bad commer ial real estate with brand new printed digital clicks and screen entries. And now they are selling it off to foreign entities. You do not (the public trust) get the paper or do you see the debt decline. You play the fool with that logic. I am not impressed with empty claims. Address the trillions in debt. If you have no plan nor answer you all lose the argument. Why?
Because it is a proven failure. Trillions in debt. Get it? It is not my resposibity to fix what i point out is irrepairable. You say it is all we got. B S.
It is time to scrap a system designed to fail. All these smart people who somehow see fault in logic and reason to replace this broken system cannot tell me how they stopped the bleeding that is irt. What is the plan? 65 cents of every dollar earned is paid directly in taxes. Then when you add the the imposed regulations, oversight and graft by the time you convert your labor/energy into dollars to purchase goods the other 35% is almost all tapped. It should not be that way. Only money manipulators can survive today.

ok, i just thought of a compromise. Until we can replace the currency, let's make serious crimes and jailtime for any person manipulating currency for gai. I have no problem including fractional reserve lending in this.



posted on Dec, 23 2017 @ 03:21 PM
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a reply to: bulwarkz

I don't recall anyone asking you to fix it.

If you claiming its a proven failure or irreparable you said explain why however I suspect you can't.



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