Pope Francis thinks he has authority to change what Christ said in the Gospels.

www.theguardian.com...

Lead us not into mistranslation: pope wants Lord's Prayer changed

Pope Francis says wording of prayer implies that God induces temptation but that is Satan’s department

Pope Francis has called for the wording of the Lord’s Prayer to be changed, because it implies God “induces temptation”. The prayer asks God to “lead us not into temptation”. Pope Francis visits Myanmar and Bangladesh – in pictures View gallery But the pontiff told Italian broadcasters he believed the wording should be altered to better reflect that it was not God who led humans to sin. He told the TV2000 channel: “It is not a good translation because it speaks of a God who induces temptation.” He added: “I am the one who falls; it’s not him pushing me into temptation to then see how I have fallen. “A father doesn’t do that, a father helps you to get up immediately. It’s Satan who leads us into temptation, that’s his department.” The 80-year-old also highlighted that the Catholic church in France had adapted the prayer, and uses the phrase “do not let us fall into temptation” instead.

In the Gospels it is NOT a "mistranslation". It is what Christ said. If we know our "Job Lesson" then we know indeed that the Almighty is very capable of putting a stumbling block before us. Throughout the Torah and Books of the Prophets we see that the Lord tell humanity constantly that He causes downfalls when it is appropriate. Christ knew this and that is why He said what He said in the way He said it:

Matthew 6:9-13New International Version (NIV)

9 “This, then, is how you should pray: “‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, 10 your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. 11 Give us today our daily bread. 12 And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. 13 And lead us not into temptation,[a] but deliver us from the evil one.’

en.wikipedia.org...

Matthew 6:9–6:13 (NRSV) Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come. Your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And do not bring us to the time of trial, but rescue us from the evil one.

Luke 11:2–11:4 (NRSV) Father, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come. Give us each day our daily bread. And forgive us our sins, for we ourselves forgive everyone indebted to us. And do not bring us to the time of trial.

This is why I will have NOTHING to do with the catholic church because it is not Christian and it BLASPHEMES continually. The Pope is trying to turn Christ into a LIBERAL. lol. It won't "wash", you corrupt and lying old man. I would not dare to do what the Pope is doing because I would be too scared of what God was going to do to me because of my deception. The Pope will deceive billions by this. They will just swallow it like a poisoned and stale wafer.

No, you ghastly old liar! You money grabbing false Prophet. Christ is not one of your sick liberals. There will of course be grave consequences for the Catholic Church for doing this.

The Catholic Church is an institution that has brought so many evils upon the world, from child abuse to extortion (via the buying one's way out of imaginary made up Purgatory business).

It has no authority over me. I hate it. I hate it because it is so hypocritical. The Pope, in doing what he is going to do, is a FALSE PROPHET.

Seems my friend who is in a coma for being outspoken was right even about this. I always though this track may have been a bit too critical, but again my friend is justified for his righteous musical rant. Poor Tosh1! Jawara had some serious foresight. It is sad. I think they did this that to him deliberately, on a supernatural level for sure.



No, I will recite the prayer as I am told by Scripture, not by this liberal blasphemer Pope. Their audacity confounds me, these peadophiles. How many of them have actually been prosecuted? They are being protected. They are criminals who have destroyed so many children psychologically ALL OVER THE WORLD. I HATE THEM. Judgement upon them!

I am going to get me an old Bible. Look how these new ones deceive. They are slowly changing THE WORD. I wish GOD would actually intervene. HE is well tardy. I have almost had enough of the whole thing. I wish HE would stick up for righteous people for once. Damn, HE even let HIS own Son die on a cross. Not very progressive, Lord, not very caring. I don't understand YOU???

a reply to: Revolution9


Honestly,

When will humanity start to drop the needy behaviour that is causing untold misery across the world and stop believing in a fairy man in the sky.

Let the Pope do what the hell he wants, if people are happy to go along with it then more power to them in their quest for acceptance by their overlord..


I have seen first hand what the Catholic Church has done to countries that sadly have populations that blindly follow the teachings.

Just as Islam has a pyschotic war mongering child marrying pedo as their prophet the Catholic church has the same amount of crazy behaviour attached to it. chaining and Locking street children up in prisons prior to the popes visit is just one such thing that makes me openly say he can go f#ck himself....



RA

What does it say in Revelation about tampering with THE WORD?

The very last passage in The Bible reads thus:

Nothing May Be Added 18I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book. 20He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!

That is what The ELOHIM say about changing, adding and taking away. Perhaps it just applies to Revelation and God lets those thugs destroy what Christ and His said and taught?

Personally, I want o join the Ethiopian Orthodox Church as I find them to be the best of the Christian Churches. They are lovely. That or Messianic Judaism. Living where I live there is neither resource, so no resource for joining a congregation that has not been corrupted. Here, they are so corrupt. The so called ministers here are useless. They know much less about the Bible than I do and many others on ATS.

Sorry to have to rant like this, but I have really had enough. It feel so powerless to be one small human being against all that evil. They could do anything to me at any time. I live very anxiously now after what they did to my friend. I feel very vulnerable, yet I want to speak out and shout more than ever and I will because I am more scared of the one who can destroy souls, not these brutalizing thugs that can only truncheon the flesh.

a reply to: Revolution9

When you question everything you are on the road to enlightenment - don't let those Zionist and Catholics dictate your awakening


"The Lord's Prayer - A Closer Look"
www.abovetopsecret.com...

What a joke,a country with an army holding all the secrets in the world,all the knowledge pilaged thru history suppressed by a religious leader,who calls himself"Christ on Earth",what is wrong with this picture,is this not like a socialist handout book,do as I say,not as I do,the church has a long history of murder,rape,torture,as the popes did the tortures on natives refusing their god,what a stain on humanity,Catholic priest were on the take from the mafia,a tool of one world government

a reply to: Revolution9

If i said what i think Pope Francis thought, i'd be jailed, flayed, and burned as a witch.

I think i'll pass. I've endured too many mad men already.

a reply to: Revolution9
To be fair, it is true that the word "temptation" is slightly misleading nowadays, and one version of the Anglican service has already replaced it with "time of trial".
The Greek word means "test", and the modern usage of the English word "tempt" has overtones which were not there in the original.

You all do realize that the bible wasn't originally written in english right? It was originally written in three different languages, Aramaic Greek and Hebrew. which were all then translated into the english version you are all so confident of....

So am I to believe that a man who has literally spent his life studying the bible knows less about it then you lot? You're the experts we should all trust on translations of ancient languages into a modern tongue.

Do any of you even speak/read these languages fluently, or at all?

I'm not saying i agree with the pope, but I'd at least acknowledge that i have no clue what the actual translation should be or even what the prayer he wants translated originally was.

The Lord’s Prayer appears in two places in the Bible. In the book of Luke, Jesus was praying, apparently by himself, and when he had finished one of the disciples asked him, “Lord, teach us how to pray the way John taught his disciples,” referring to John the Baptist. Jesus responded, “When you pray, say” and he gave the disciples the familiar words. But in the book of Matthew, toward the end of that good advice we call the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus warns the disciples against praying ostentatiously with long empty phrases and lots of words. “Do not be like them,” he says, “for your Father knows what you need before you ask him. Pray then in this way...” and he gives his followers the Lord’s Prayer.

Finally, how does a story about the pope wanting to explore the translation of one of the worlds most popular prayers turn into rants about socialism and liberals?

When are people going to realize that the religions of today are nothing but the dregs of the barrel, or in other words sh*t?

Every premise and rule has been stolen and manipulated into easier control methods in which can still be altered to suit those at the top better, believers have such naive stupidity. The sooner these institutions are done with, the better

This is the “Dark Pope” and I wouldn’t listen to anything he says. HE is the evil one to lead you into temptation. If he wants to change things he should start his own satanic version of Catholicism.

a reply to: Thorneblood

The entire World is a set up. It's never been a mystery to me, i've suspected it since i was in my younger years, and questioned my teachers. They never did give me a valid answer. If people feel there's something wrong with our planet, it's because there is.

a reply to: DISRAELI

Yes!! Here is the definition of it. πειρασμός

STRONGS NT 3986: πειρασμός

πειρασμός, πειρασμοῦ, ὁ (πειράζω, which see), the Sept. for מַסָּה, an experiment, attempt, trial, proving; (Vulg.tentatio);

a. universally, trial, proving: Sir. 27:5, 7; τόν πειρασμόν ὑμῶν ἐν τῇ σαρκί μου, the trial made of you by my bodily condition, since this condition served to test the love of the Galatians toward Paul, Galatians 4:14 L T Tr WH (cf.

b. below, and Lightfoot at the passage).

b. specifically, the trial of man's fidelity, integrity, virtue, constancy, etc.: 1 Peter 4:12; also an enticement to sin, temptation, whether arising from the desires or from outward circumstances, Luke 8:13; 1 Corinthians 10:13; ὑπομένειν πειρασμόν, James 1:12; an internal temptation to sin, 1 Timothy 6:9; of the temptation by which the devil sought to divert Jesus the Messiah from his divine errand, Luke 4:13; of a condition of things, or a mental state, by which we are enticed to sin, or to a lapse from faith and holiness: in the phrases εἰσφέρειν τινα εἰς πειρασμόν, Matthew 6:13; Luke 11:4; ἐισέρχεσθαι εἰς πειρασμόν, Matthew 26:41; Mark 14:38 (here T WH ἔλθητε); Luke 22:40, 46; adversity, affliction, trouble (cf. our trial), sent by God and serving to test or prove one's faith, holiness, character: plural, Luke 22:28; Acts 20:19; James 1:2; 1 Peter 1:6; τόν πειρασμόν μου τόν ἐν τῇ σαρκί μου, my temptation arising from my bodily infirmity, Galatians 4:14 Rec. (but see a. above); ὥρα τοῦ πειρασμοῦ, Revelation 3:10; ἐκ πειρασμοῦ ῤύεσθαι, 2 Peter 2:9 (Deuteronomy 7:19; Deuteronomy 29:3; Sir. 2:1 Sir. 6:7 Sir. 36:1 (Sir. 33:1); 1 Macc. 2:52).

c. 'temptation' (i. e. trial) of God by men, i. e. rebellion against God, by which his power and justice are, as It were, put to the proof and challenged to show themselves: Hebrews 3:8 (Deuteronomy 6:16; Deuteronomy 9:22; Psalm 94:8 ()). Cf. Fried. B. Koester, Die Biblical Lehre yon der Versuchung. Gotha, 1859. (The word has not yet been found in secular authors except Dioscorides (?) praef. i. τούς ἐπί παθῶν πειρασμούς experiments made on diseases.)

Peace

a reply to: Revolution9
🤔Doesn’t sound like you practice the words of the Lord’s Prayer very well. The hatred seething from you doesn’t paint a picture of a person willing to forgive those indebted to them.

Hope you can heal some from that seething hate.

And for the record, I agree with the pope. The words were mistranslated and make much more sense to what he would like it changed to.

a reply to: Revolution9

I feel for you. Change is never easy. Consider the meeting in a place called Nicae in 325 .... where what we now call scripture is defined .....As a non catholic you do concede the authority of that group to have an authoritative say on what should and what should not in the bible, yes? You do see how indebted you are to catholic tradition?

That particular change was not to the advantage of Christians of another stripe, the nestorians and gnostics. Whatever you might now think about them, the change and consequences they were subjected to, are nothing in comparison to changing the wording ....

And, what you surely do not want to forget: you are reading and quoting scripture in a translated version. You simply hope for the translators to have done their job more than adequately .

so god has the power to create the entire universe and everything in it, is timeless, can do anything he wants, but the best way of communicating things to man he thought is via parables and texts and praises and songs...
something went seriously wrong there.


i think the pope should rearrange whatever words he sees fit. its not like god is going to say no, dont do that, is he?

incidentally, when did biblical things slowly go away, you don't hear of burning bushes or men parting seas, or men being swallowed by whales and making it out alive anymore, wonder why...

Are you whining?

I don't think your God can hear you. Was that your purpose? Sorry just wondering. I wonder a lot, a whole lot. About everything.

originally posted by: odzeandennz
so god has the power to create the entire universe and everything in it, is timeless, can do anything he wants, but the best way of communicating things to man he thought is via parables and texts and praises and songs...
something went seriously wrong there.


i think the pope should rearrange whatever words he sees fit. its not like god is going to say no, dont do that, is he?

incidentally, when did biblical things slowly go away, you don't hear of burning bushes or men parting seas, or men being swallowed by whales and making it out alive anymore, wonder why...

But you do hear of miraculous apparitions and messages being given to certain individuals concerning the will of God and the future of this planet .

God isn’t dead ... He may not use burning bushes to communicate but He still communicates.

Finally, and this is just me, but I honestly thought the line went

"Lead us not into tribulation" which to me is just a more sensible choice then temptation considering all that word implies.

See Temptation means this
a desire to do something, especially something wrong or unwise.

Tribulation means this
a cause of great trouble or suffering.