Texas Church Shooting : Thread

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: roadgravel

originally posted by: face23785
If the things we're hearing about his domestic violence past are true, yes he shouldn't have been able to pass a background check. But if he already owned the guns before that, I don't think it would have made a difference.

In Texas, previous owned fire arms are not allow to be possessed by a felon. It's no fire arms near enough to be considered in possession.

I was unaware of how they handled that. Appreciate the info. How do they know you have previously owned firearms though? There's no registry.

My point was only that a felon can't grandfather in his fire arms. He can't be near a firearm. IE: Allowing his friend to keep his rifle or pistol in the felon's house or car much less carry one.

originally posted by: Flyingclaydisk
a reply to: face23785

He's talking about 'purchasing'. I believe TX is one of the states which require background checks on both new and used firearms.

(correct me if I'm wrong on this TX persons). Not from TX personally so I can't swear to this.

I'm pretty sure every state requires background checks on both new and used firearms if you purchase them from an FFL. If you buy a gun used through a private sale, some states don't require a background check.

a reply to: SunnyDee

Did he have a child? If so where is the mom and child

Yes, and I don't know; it hasn't been reported to my knowledge.

Why was he dishonorably discharged?

He wasn't. He was given a Court Marshal for spousal abuse, domestic violence and battery and sentenced to one year in a military prison, after which his was discharged from the Air Force with a "Bad Conduct" discharge (which is not the same as a Dishonorable, close, but not exactly).

originally posted by: roadgravel

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: roadgravel

originally posted by: face23785
If the things we're hearing about his domestic violence past are true, yes he shouldn't have been able to pass a background check. But if he already owned the guns before that, I don't think it would have made a difference.

In Texas, previous owned fire arms are not allow to be possessed by a felon. It's no fire arms near enough to be considered in possession.

I was unaware of how they handled that. Appreciate the info. How do they know you have previously owned firearms though? There's no registry.

My point was only that a felon can't grandfather in his fire arms. He can't be near a firearm. IE: Allowing his friend to keep his rifle or pistol in the felon's house or car much less carry one.

Yeah I got you. My point was just that, say he already owned guns, then he got convicted of the felony. By law he wouldn't be allowed to own and he would fail a background check if he tried to buy any new guns. But the guns he already owned before his conviction, nobody is gonna come get those from him.

As Flyingclaydisk noted, the gun he used came out the same year he was convicted, so it's unlikely he owned it prior to his conviction. So he probably had to acquire it illegally after that, probably through a straw purchase. One gun control law I can definitely support is heavier penalties for straw purchases.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
It wasn't because of guns...

Guns are just inanimate tools. No gun has ever pointed itself at a person and pulled its own trigger. They may be tools of high convenience for criminals, but then it is the criminal's actions, not the gun's actions, that cause the problem.

It wasn't about mental health...

Mental health has become a catch-all term for "someone who thinks differently than I do." According to some of the comments in this thread, anyone who commits a crime is obviously suffering from a lack of mental health; therefore everyone who has the capability to commit a crime as an indicator for mental health issues. That's everyone who has the ability to breathe.

What it is about is respect for life.

• In Charlotte, Dylan Roof had no respect for the lives of those who he senselessly and callously murdered. He just wanted to "kill black people."
  
  
• Steve Scalise was shot and almost died because one person wanted kill Republicans so badly he drove from Ohio and camped out in his vehicle for an extended time just to be in the right place at the right time to do so.
  
  
• In Charlottesville, the driver of the car had no respect for the lives of those he endangered, including the woman he hit directly. He was simply trying to kill.
  
  
• In Las Vegas, the shooter had no respect for the lives of innocent people who he had no knowledge of or interaction with. He simply wished to end the lives of that crowd of people.
  
  
• In New York, the driver of the truck had no respect for the lives of individuals he mowed down with absolute abandon. He simply wished to kill people.
  
  
• Yesterday, the shooter had no respect for the lives of those he butchered. We don't know the motive yet (there is a rumor he had in-laws who attended that church), but he certainly was not picky about whose life he ended.

This problem has been ongoing for some time and its getting worse. Taking away guns won't work; the would-be criminals would still have them (they are criminals, after all) and the innocents wouldn't. Locking up people for mental health issues won't work; we don't have enough jails to house the entire population... and who would be left to run the prisons? No, these easy ways won't work. The only thing that will work is to respect people again.

Sadly,that is extremely hard to do. People, even as evidenced in this thread, care more about some perceived bias against the 'enemy' than they do about people. They care more about possessions, those material things that money buys, than people. They care more about some manufactured fantasy concept of 'fairness' than they do about people.

Just look at some of the issues of our time if you want proof:

• Gun control advocates care nothing about actually saving lives... they care more about easing their own misguided fears about a tool they do not understand.
  
• Obamacare advocates care more about their solution, a solution that has caused many like myself to be denied any chance of health care coverage and caused many others to have to pay much more for less coverage than they once had, than they do even fixing the problem, evidenced by the continual refusal of the Democrats in Congress to even debate the issue and the support of this by their supporters.
  
• The biggest complaint about tax reform is not that it won't help the average person, but that someone else might somehow benefit. The lack of any benefit for one class is sufficient reason for the intense suffering of an entire other class.
  
• Abortion advocates care absolutely nothing about the lives of an unborn child, even up to the moment before it exits the birth canal.
  
• Black Lives Matter advocates claim to care about black lives, but their actions indicate they only care about those lives that are in danger from white policemen. Those who die from other causes are ignored.
  
• Antifa claims to be 'anti-fascist,' but their actions regularly indicate they themselves are the fascists, using fascist techniques such as violence and denial of freedom of speech toward their 'opponents.'
  
• Many news outlets are literally calling for violence against anyone who they proclaim is a 'white supremacist,' with the yardstick for that label apparently being simply white-skinned and having opposing political views.
  
• Some atheists hate religion so much they will do anything, even cheer on the killing of Christians or support radical Muslim terrorism, to 'get even' with the 'evil' Christians in this country. At least one poster in this very thread has openly laughed about the dead church members because they were Christians!

That is the issue. The life of others matters nothing to us. Only our own existence, our own philosophy, our own agenda, our own selfish desires. We have become, as has been prophesied, "lovers of self." And as lovers of only self, we have become haters of everything and everyone else.

My God help us all.

TheRedneck

Quoted this because every last word is important. This is pure, unadulterated truth. We would all do well to heed this advice, and learn to respect one another again - even when we disagree.

God help us, indeed

Link to info about private gun sales in Texas

Was the shooter shooting while on the move? Whoever did it was professionally trained, you can be sure of that!

foxsanantonio.com...
"He just walked down the center aisle, turned around and my understanding was shooting on his way back out," said (Wilson County Sheriff Joe D.) Tackitt, who said the gunman also carried a handgun but that he didn't know if it was fired.

a reply to: face23785

If you buy a gun used through a private sale, some states don't require a background check.

Yes, see link in my previous. In Texas, private sales, no check required. Consequences apply...

Daily mail has this on the Atheism he was supposedly preaching.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

originally posted by: SunnyDee
Questions-
Did he have a child? If so where is the mom and child
Did he have friends?- what did they think about him
Why was he dishonorably discharged?
Did he have a diagnosed mental issue and meds?
What was his political idiology?
Antifa calendar for Sunday was for church reachout! Coincidence?

Can we add questions and answers to this post?

What did he do for the five years after being booted from the USAF? How did he support a family?

Do the slugs and shell casings recovered from the victims and scene match to his AR?

Are the perp's fingerprints on the weapons/ammo?

What was the motive? If you can't come up with one, you haven't solved the crime.

originally posted by: Justoneman
Daily mail has this on the Atheism he was supposedly preaching.

www.dailymail.co.uk...

"he was popular among the outcast" in the town... wow.

a reply to: Flyingclaydisk

I left out more than that. But they all fit this one simple equation: anger - compassion = hatred. hatred - respect = violence.

We're all guilty. We're all responsible. Especially those who claim they're not.

TheRedneck

He may have been targeting in laws who attended the church but were not there at the time.

a reply to: seagull

I 1000% completely agree, we have a problem in America right now. We have been so completely divided by politics and media, it's terrifying how angry so many folks are. This mass shooting truly has nothing to do with politics, race, religion or any other issue, it is about the victims and the fear it causes to so many people who must carry on with life without fear and who must begin to process what has occurred. To see the selfishness of so many who immediately and consistently make every tragedy on the news about themselves or whatever issue is most important to THEM. We all have particular social issues which we care about more than others- that's perfectly normal when you consider the fact that we are all individuals who have been affected by our own personal life experiences.

It's sad when tragedies like this happen, but it's obvious and disgusting how quick so many folks are to use the death of our fellow human beings (in this case, some as young as 5yrs old) to push an agenda make something so horrible and heartbreaking all about them. Actually, we should all be thankful that it didn't personally affect us or cause the death of a family member or someone we love. It seems that the majority of Americans are simply not willing to listen or try to understand anyone else's point of view or concerns but our own, why are so many people so ANGRY? We have an issue with so many people who are allowing our Corporate Media and politicians to divide us instead of addressing the major problem in America which is mental health issues. While we are being distracted and being lead straight into an argument with each other, over and over again, following any tragedy like this one, none of us are discussing or finding solutions for the mental illness epidemic all around us.

originally posted by: starviego

Was the shooter shooting while on the move? Whoever did it was professionally trained, you can be sure of that!

foxsanantonio.com...
"He just walked down the center aisle, turned around and my understanding was shooting on his way back out," said (Wilson County Sheriff Joe D.) Tackitt, who said the gunman also carried a handgun but that he didn't know if it was fired.

Professional as in he took a basic firearms course being taught by a certified instructor?

So?

People can keep saying "it's not a gun problem," but.. obviously there is a gun problem. Because these mass shooting still keep happening, in greater numbers than anywhere else on the world. With 5% of the world's population, we account for around 35% of the mass shootings.

It's ironic, because Trump has convinced everyone there is a real threat from terrorism, where the have been next to no deaths - but the real actual clear and present threat is U.S. citizens with guns. And I'm not saying "take guns," I'm saying first step - admit there is a problem, and find a way to fix it.

There isn't only one magical solution of "take guns away" or nothing at all. There needs to be middle ground, or some way to make it better than it is. Difficult problem, but needs to not be ignored, it needs to be addressed. Arming more citizens isn't the "fix" either. Obviously there have been many with guns at these shootings, and until yesterday, they haven't come into play. And even yesterday, it did little to help, the damage was already done, with almost the entire congregation being shot.

a reply to: shell69

Everyone has that one issue that we care about more than others- which is perfectly normal due to the fact that we are individuals who have been affected by our own life experiences.

You are wrong! I have many issues I care about! How dare you think you know me? You don't know anything about me!

Forgive me; that one line was too good a segway to illustrate my point earlier to pass up. Yes, you are spot on, and one of those stars came from me. We need respect for each other, not divisive talk and angry rhetoric about silly issues.

TheRedneck

Guys, I'd really like to apologize for my first post (and subsequent postings) which casually mentioned my opinion on the importance of firearms. Truth is, it wasn't a casual reference but the entire point of my post. It wasn't to mourn the loss of innocent lives, or offer condolences. Instead, I only posted it as a dig to those with different opinions, which was a really sh###y thing for me to do.

I am sorry for intentionally adding to the polarization and politicization of this issue. It detracts from the terrible act of horror, and isn't fair to the victims or their families to use this tragedy for advancing my beliefs.

My support for the second amendment isn't relevant to this tragedy, and I am truly sorry for trying to make it about that.

CNN jst did another interview with the pickup truck driver about 10 minutes ago. Two things stood out.

First, he said that the hero shooter guy told him he may have to ram the church shooter off the road to stop him, so he did what he needed to do. I don't know if him ramming him off the road was ever confirmed ealier, but it seemed to be what he was implying.

Second, while talking about securing the scene after he went off the road, he mentioned that "they" said the shooter had lots of guns in the back of his vehicle. Did anyone else see/hear this?

originally posted by: roadgravel
He may have been targeting in laws who attended the church but were not there at the time.

sounds like it, but he obviously wanted to damage Christianity as much as possible also, otherwise he could have just targeted them alone. I think he was an unstable man who grabbed onto the athiests antifa bandwagon. They definitely go hand in hand.