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Texas Church Shooting : Thread

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posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 11:25 AM
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originally posted by: Trueman
a reply to: TheJesuit

For me, an attack against a church is an attack against God.


For me it is an attack against innocent people and the ultimate act of cowardice choosing the "softest" target possible, a place of sanctity, shelter and peace.




posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 11:27 AM
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originally posted by: roadgravel
a reply to: neo96

Do we know that Academy actually did the proper check?

If they did then the whole expensive check system, and whoever makes the money running it, sucks. I assume it's government employees but don't know positively.


They claimed he lied on his background check form. I would imagine the local media would be smart enough to ask them to show them the form from their files to prove this claim. Government employees do run the background check system. And it's not as simple as just lying on your form, they run it through the background check system to verify that you're a US citizen and have no felony or domestic violence convictions. If he passed, that probably means his domestic violence conviction somehow didn't make it into the system. Him lying on the form is actually kinda irrelevant. It's not an honor system, they don't rely on your being truthful, that's the whole point of the background check system is so they can check your background, not just take your word for it.

If his disqualifying info didn't make it into the system somehow and that's how he passed, obviously it needs to be looked into why that happened and we need to close that loophole. Otherwise the background check system is kinda pointless.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 11:27 AM
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a reply to: roadgravel

The daily mail article reports that a hostage was taken.


He (a local) said that Kelley had taken a hostage in the passenger seat as he fled.



The local, who is familiar with the heroes, said that Willeford made sure the passenger Kelley had taken hostage was on the ground out of the way when they approached the car.


link



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 11:31 AM
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originally posted by: OkieDokie
a reply to: roadgravel

The daily mail article reports that a hostage was taken.


He (a local) said that Kelley had taken a hostage in the passenger seat as he fled.



The local, who is familiar with the heroes, said that Willeford made sure the passenger Kelley had taken hostage was on the ground out of the way when they approached the car.


link


There's only them and from what I can find the Telegraph are also saying that. No one else is reporting about a hostage. I would bet they just got confused.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 11:33 AM
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So, anyone else on here think the two guys who chased him down took down this POS when stopped? I hope so to be honest. The timelines and actions are not adding up.

1. He took off with a hostage AFTER already being shot.
2. He was chased and there was an accident. Some depictions have them running him off the road.
3. He was dead and already bled out after the accident when found. Well, if they were chasing him they were right there.

One guy had a rifle and the other a shotgun from what I have read.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 11:42 AM
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originally posted by: matafuchs
So, anyone else on here think the two guys who chased him down took down this POS when stopped? I hope so to be honest. The timelines and actions are not adding up.

1. He took off with a hostage AFTER already being shot.
2. He was chased and there was an accident. Some depictions have them running him off the road.
3. He was dead and already bled out after the accident when found. Well, if they were chasing him they were right there.

One guy had a rifle and the other a shotgun from what I have read.


The official timeline from law enforcement doesn't mention a hostage. He was shot, got in his car and fled. The bystander who shot him flagged down a passing motorist, got in the car with him, and they gave chase. The killer called his father and told him he'd been shot, so he was in the process of dying already. He then crashed his car, whether he simply lost control or he shot himself we're not sure yet. Law enforcement said they're waiting for the pathology before making any statements on that.

Edit: initially some people thought the bystander was a "second shooter" as in another guy involved with the killing of innocents. Him having jumped in the passerby's car may have led some media to think the shooter took a hostage. It's just confusion in language and media not doing a very good job at research before publishing.
edit on 6 11 17 by face23785 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 11:43 AM
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Evil finds a way, it always does...

Unfortunately, there will be more, there always is. I'm afraid the worst is yet to come...



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 11:44 AM
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originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: face23785

Doesn't matter.

The store followed the law.



Yeah I agree. I'm not blaming the store. Somehow the guy didn't flag though. He obviously should have flagged. We need to investigate that, find out why, and fix it. Magazine limits, "assault weapon" bans and other crap being proposed in the media is not the answer, it's kneejerk politicizing.


Please explain why you think you should have access to unlimited ammo, magazine capacity and "assault rifles"? Is it just because you like to play rambo? Go join the military if that's the case. I am very pro 2nd amendment but even the forefathers would have enough common sense to put a ban on them....or at least very regulated access to them.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 11:45 AM
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a reply to: matafuchs



The timelines and actions are not adding up. 

1. He took off with a hostage AFTER already being shot. 
2. He was chased and there was an accident. Some depictions have them running him off the road. 
3. He was dead and already bled out after the accident when found. Well, if they were chasing him they were right there. 


Hypothetically, he could have been shot, fled, passed out from blood loss, and then ran off the road. I always try to make sense of these conflicting stories. I try to ignore the media (mis-)reporting and focus on the actual statements from PIO's and such because historically, the rush for a story makes for poor factchecking. But I have just about given up trying to make sense of FBI timelines after Vegas. My confidence in getting an honest story from behind the podium is dwindling. When the official details of seemingly minor details you would have within hours changes constantly (check-in date, officer discharging weapon during breach, timing of security guard, et al), it's hard to not think they are not trying to build their own narrative sometimes.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 11:46 AM
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a reply to: face23785

Basically what I was saying.

If the military info can't get into the government check system then we have a major problem. How bad are the state updates going to be. We seem to have a lot of failures in his system to keep us safe and of course make some people a lot of money.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 11:48 AM
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Still, we still have been told that Academy actually ran the proper check and it came back clear, have we. The whole point of the system is to make lying at the purchase moot.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 11:50 AM
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a reply to: starlitestarbright

Can I answer this?


Please explain why you think you should have access to unlimited ammo, magazine capacity and "assault rifles"?

Because people like Devin Kelley do.

TheRedneck



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 11:51 AM
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a reply to: Flyingclaydisk



The exact notations in his record are not clear at the moment. The Domestic Violence conviction should have disqualified him (absolutely, under current laws), but I'm not sure we know if those charges carry across exactly that way from a military conviction and imprisonment. They should, but we don't know exactly what the record shows (at least I don't).


From reports I'd seen was charged with "ASSUALT" , not Domestic Violence in his court - martial

Was sentenced to year in jail - which equates to misdemeanor

looks like may have slipped through cracks

By being charged with Assault vs Domestic violence was able to avoid being banned

Also fact that sentence was 1 yr means was classed as misdemeanor vs felony which would have gotten him banned



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 11:51 AM
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originally posted by: queenofswords

originally posted by: Wide-Eyes

originally posted by: TheJesuit
i just read that too, i really hope they'll be OK one curious thing is tat the UK mirror had the story first ? don't you think a US news outlet would have reported it first .?

a reply to: denybedoomed



9/11 taught us that UK msm can see the future...


That is odd come to think about it!

A small town most have never heard of, a small church, and the UK Mirror knows about it almost immediately!?


Yep. The mind boggles.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 11:57 AM
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a reply to: face23785

I had understood the situation the same way you laid out until I saw the report of the hostage in the article. That was the first time I had heard anything about a hostage being taken. It makes sense that they could get confused in the reporting (we've seen it many times before) but that second statement from the local seems really hard to get confused. It is a very precise action to "make sure the....hostage was on the ground out of the way when they approached the car". It just doesn't sound like a mistaken identity with the hero shooter getting into the passing truck. It could be someone making things up to get their 15 mins of fame I guess??? I'm honestly at a loss of what to make of it.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 12:02 PM
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a reply to: TheRedneck

And for the inevitable zombie apocalypse, right?

If it's for hunting, then anyone who needs that kind of firepower definitely should not be hunting.

Anyway, psychopaths do what they do, not just because they can but because they believe they have to. If they intend to harm others they will find a way.

We need better ways to identify them before they can.

imo



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 12:04 PM
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originally posted by: OkieDokie
a reply to: face23785

I had understood the situation the same way you laid out until I saw the report of the hostage in the article. That was the first time I had heard anything about a hostage being taken. It makes sense that they could get confused in the reporting (we've seen it many times before) but that second statement from the local seems really hard to get confused. It is a very precise action to "make sure the....hostage was on the ground out of the way when they approached the car". It just doesn't sound like a mistaken identity with the hero shooter getting into the passing truck. It could be someone making things up to get their 15 mins of fame I guess??? I'm honestly at a loss of what to make of it.


I doubt Daily Mail has their own reporters on the ground there. They're getting everything 3rd hand. It's probably just a case of information confusion. No one else is reporting there was a hostage.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 12:06 PM
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The news stated the Air Force said the information on the shooter was entered into the check system.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 12:16 PM
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originally posted by: starlitestarbright

originally posted by: face23785

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: face23785

Doesn't matter.

The store followed the law.



Yeah I agree. I'm not blaming the store. Somehow the guy didn't flag though. He obviously should have flagged. We need to investigate that, find out why, and fix it. Magazine limits, "assault weapon" bans and other crap being proposed in the media is not the answer, it's kneejerk politicizing.


Please explain why you think you should have access to unlimited ammo, magazine capacity and "assault rifles"? Is it just because you like to play rambo? Go join the military if that's the case. I am very pro 2nd amendment but even the forefathers would have enough common sense to put a ban on them....or at least very regulated access to them.


You've got a lot of problems here. For one, you need a fair amount of ammo to practice and maintain proficiency with your gun. Surely you're not going to advocate that people should be allowed to own guns, but ammo should be so limited that you barely get to practice. You want people to be able to shoot accurately right? So they're not hitting innocent bystanders and whatnot if they do have to use their gun defensively? And do you honestly believe criminals won't be able to get their hands on ammo?

Your Rambo/military comment demonstrates a gross lack of understanding about gun owners. You've been misled by propaganda. I encourage you to get out to your local range and meet some of these people. Take a class. The vast majority of us are perfectly reasonable people. You're also mistaken about the Founders' intention with the 2nd. Firearms technology advanced significantly during their time, they never turned around and said damn we should change that amendment because some of this stuff being invented is beyond what we intended. There's lots of information out there, period writings from the time, that make it very clear what their intention was.

"Assault rifle" as you understand it is a misleading term designed to fool people like you into thinking a black rifle is deadlier than Uncle Chet's wooden-stocked hunting rifle. The killer in the church was unopposed until he went outside. He could have done all of this with a handgun if he wanted. AR-15s are actually an excellent home defense weapon. They're easy to handle and shoot for even diminutive men or women. They're accurate.

Magazine size limits are useless because magazine changes don't slow down the shooter in any appreciable manner. Magazine changes take a second or two with a bit of practice. Almost every recent mass shooting we've had, the shooter changed mags multiple times. If you reduce the magazine size and make him change mags 6 times instead of 2 or 3, it would make no difference.

I used to be you. I encourage you to educate yourself. The more you learn, the less scary they get. Most of what you think you know is misconception.



posted on Nov, 6 2017 @ 12:20 PM
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originally posted by: Tekaran

originally posted by: OtherSideOfTheCoin

originally posted by: ZombieWoof
a reply to: ZombieWoof

one more



Why is that legal?


Because it is a single shot (semi-auto), unless illegally modified.


Officially the worst mass shooting in Texas history.

The weapon he chose was for this horror was a Ruger AR-556, he bought the gun in April 2016 at a San Antonio Sporting Goods store (Academy Sports & Outdoors).

He was able to buy the gun despite being convicted of Domestic Violence against both his wife and child.

The shooting lasted for an estimated 15 seconds according to witnesses.
He managed to kill at least 26 people and injure at least 20 others in those 15 seconds with the youngest victim being 18 months old.

There are multiple trigger systems/modifications available that are legal to buy that can convert the AR-556 to being "virtually" fully-automatic.



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