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Texas Church Shooting : Thread

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posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:11 PM
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originally posted by: Deny Arrogance
USA has the highest number of psychiatrists per capita and is the largest consumer of psychiatric drugs in the world.



The first pill mill in the US opened for business just down the street from where I live. Handing out happy pills is not treatment.




posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:12 PM
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Dishonorably discharged from the air force.

Under federal law he was in fact prohibited from possessing / purchasing firearms.
18 USC 922


(g) It shall be unlawful for any person—
(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
(2) who is a fugitive from justice;
(3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
(4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;
(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));
(6) who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
(7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship;
(8) who is subject to a court order that—
(A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate;
(B) restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and


Foxnews is reporting he was dishonorably discharged for several counts of abuse towards his wife and child.
edit on 5-11-2017 by Xcathdra because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:14 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Aazadan

In the UK, you treat mental illness. In the US, even most health care plans don't treat it.

I'm getting really damn close to believing there's something in the water in the US that's dumbing us down, and making us more likely to do these things.


and after working for 6 years in a level 1 trauma facility I can say you are wrong and that mental health issues are treated and it is covered.


Then that brings up an even more concerning question. If health care is adequete, and people are still wanting to shoot places up, then we have even fewer ways to prevent that.



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:15 PM
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a reply to: Liquesence

How ?

By making things a mental health issue.

Doctors and nurses make out like bandits.

Big pharmaceuticals make out like bandits.

To the tune of TRILLIONS.

People will be banned from buying firearms because they talk to their cats, and other things.

Billions lost.



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:17 PM
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off-topic post removed to prevent thread-drift


 



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:20 PM
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He is a former member of the U.S. Air Force who served in logistics readiness at Holloman Air Force Base in New Mexico from 2010 until his discharge, according to USAF spokeswoman Ann Stefanek.


www.huffingtonpost.com...

This guy never saw any action.



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:21 PM
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a reply to: Deaf Alien

A witness said he had on a face mask.



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:22 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
Dishonorably discharged from the air force.

Under federal law he was in fact prohibited from possessing / purchasing firearms.
18 USC 922


(g) It shall be unlawful for any person—
(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
(2) who is a fugitive from justice;
(3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
(4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;
(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));
(6) who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
(7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship;
(8) who is subject to a court order that—
(A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate;
(B) restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and


Foxnews is reporting he was dishonorably discharged for several counts of abuse towards his wife and child.

You are aware of the existence of gun shows, correct?

If he paid cash to a used gun seller, well... it's not like they're going to ask too many questions.



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:23 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Xcathdra

originally posted by: Aazadan

In the UK, you treat mental illness. In the US, even most health care plans don't treat it.

I'm getting really damn close to believing there's something in the water in the US that's dumbing us down, and making us more likely to do these things.


and after working for 6 years in a level 1 trauma facility I can say you are wrong and that mental health issues are treated and it is covered.


Then that brings up an even more concerning question. If health care is adequete, and people are still wanting to shoot places up, then we have even fewer ways to prevent that.


You have heard the saying you can lead a horse to water.

While each state as well as federal law allows for certain persons to be able to be involuntarily committed for mental health reasons the requirements to do so are specific. Under our laws an involuntary committal is essentially classified as a civil arrest. The person is read their rights under the law with regards to what they can and cannot do and the courts must be notified within 24 hours that a person is involuntarily detained. A hearing must be held and we go from there.

As with criminal law the person is innocent and it is up to medical professionals to make their case as to why the person in question is a danger / threat to themselves or others and why commitment is needed.

Absent that information there is not much that can be done. We cannot violate their rights.



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:23 PM
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Kelley was court-martialed in 2012 after facing counts of assault on his spouse and assault on their child, and received a bad conduct discharge and confinement for 12 months.


www.nbcsandiego.com...

Domestic Abuse.

Verboten under the law ATF form 4473.

11i.



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:24 PM
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originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Dishonorably discharged from the air force.

Under federal law he was in fact prohibited from possessing / purchasing firearms.
18 USC 922


(g) It shall be unlawful for any person—
(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
(2) who is a fugitive from justice;
(3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
(4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;
(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));
(6) who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
(7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship;
(8) who is subject to a court order that—
(A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate;
(B) restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and


Foxnews is reporting he was dishonorably discharged for several counts of abuse towards his wife and child.

You are aware of the existence of gun shows, correct?

If he paid cash to a used gun seller, well... it's not like they're going to ask too many questions.


Or... his wife could have bought it. Not saying that happened but it is quite possible.



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:24 PM
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a reply to: neo96

I get your argument: the slippery slope of what becomes an issue of mental health.

The point was showing ironically equal lobbying between Pharma and the NRA.



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:25 PM
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originally posted by: infolurker
a reply to: ketsuko

LinkedIn is still up (terrible profile, sure would not have gotten him a job):

www.linkedin.com...



And Facebook likes



Doesn't seem like he was a heavy Christian at all.


One thing is obvious - they rile themselves up on social media and their "protest" marches but especially social media. I stay away from even reading twitter for that reason since too much what do they call it...cray cray.



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:27 PM
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originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Dishonorably discharged from the air force.

Under federal law he was in fact prohibited from possessing / purchasing firearms.
18 USC 922


(g) It shall be unlawful for any person—
(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
(2) who is a fugitive from justice;
(3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
(4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;
(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));
(6) who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
(7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship;
(8) who is subject to a court order that—
(A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate;
(B) restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and


Foxnews is reporting he was dishonorably discharged for several counts of abuse towards his wife and child.

You are aware of the existence of gun shows, correct?

If he paid cash to a used gun seller, well... it's not like they're going to ask too many questions.

It depends on where he bought the gun and the status of the person who sold it.

Private to private sales in Texas are not regulated.
People with FFL's who do sell at gun shows are required to comply with the GCA and that includes a background check before selling to a person.



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:27 PM
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a reply to: Jacket

I wish we could see his youtube channel favorites for a more in-depth understanding of this guy.

I know most of mine are "religious" in nature and others are my interests (couple of game channels, how-to channels, etc.)



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:27 PM
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a reply to: Greven




You are aware of the existence of gun shows, correct?


You mean where anyone running a booth must legally conduct a background check and have a 4473 filed for the purchase?




If he paid cash to a used gun seller, well... it's not like they're going to ask too many questions.


Even used guns must be sold using the same laws and regulations as brand new firearms.



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:30 PM
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originally posted by: Xcathdra
a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

Where did I say you did in my response. Your name was not used, so again stop with the drama.





Ugh, righto then. Don't own it, whatever.



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:31 PM
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For crying outloud.

This guy had two strikes against him.

The dishonorable discharge, and domestic abuse.

Either one/Both made it ILLEGAL for him to own ANY.



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:31 PM
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originally posted by: infolurker

originally posted by: Greven

originally posted by: Xcathdra
Dishonorably discharged from the air force.

Under federal law he was in fact prohibited from possessing / purchasing firearms.
18 USC 922


(g) It shall be unlawful for any person—
(1) who has been convicted in any court of, a crime punishable by imprisonment for a term exceeding one year;
(2) who is a fugitive from justice;
(3) who is an unlawful user of or addicted to any controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802));
(4) who has been adjudicated as a mental defective or who has been committed to a mental institution;
(5) who, being an alien—
(A) is illegally or unlawfully in the United States; or
(B) except as provided in subsection (y)(2), has been admitted to the United States under a nonimmigrant visa (as that term is defined in section 101(a)(26) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (8 U.S.C. 1101(a)(26)));
(6) who has been discharged from the Armed Forces under dishonorable conditions;
(7) who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his citizenship;
(8) who is subject to a court order that—
(A) was issued after a hearing of which such person received actual notice, and at which such person had an opportunity to participate;
(B) restrains such person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of such person or child of such intimate partner or person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and


Foxnews is reporting he was dishonorably discharged for several counts of abuse towards his wife and child.

You are aware of the existence of gun shows, correct?

If he paid cash to a used gun seller, well... it's not like they're going to ask too many questions.


Or... his wife could have bought it. Not saying that happened but it is quite possible.


Or a straw purchaser who was perfectly legal to buy as happened in the case of San Bernardino.



posted on Nov, 5 2017 @ 09:31 PM
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originally posted by: Aazadan

originally posted by: Deny Arrogance
USA has the highest number of psychiatrists per capita and is the largest consumer of psychiatric drugs in the world.



The first pill mill in the US opened for business just down the street from where I live. Handing out happy pills is not treatment.


I was wondering when the "evil big pharma prozac" excuses would start....




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