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originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: ColoradoJens
Of course I believe CNN has factual reporting sometimes.
Hell I will go further than that and say most of the time. I just disagree with how they interpret it.
I have posted all over ats that I disagree with brushing any story merely because the source is biased.
originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler
Was there unmasking and leaks that lead to hurting trump politically?
So it's not hypothetical.
You just think that is ok as long as I can't prove intent.
Where did I say it was ok?
What I am saying is that you cannot make the kind of accusations that you have without having evidence.
There are already laws and processes in place for unmasking and wiretapping, and there are also laws in place that would address using the DoJ as a tool against political opponents.
That being said, if there was any evidence to suggest the DoJ was used against Trump for political reasons, there are laws in place to address it.
So I'm not sure what your angle here is, except to get outraged about something you can't even provide one speck of evidence to suggest. No matter what, your approach is highly illogical.
originally posted by: Hazardous1408
a reply to: burdman30ott6
...and in April it looked pretty damn plausible.
Yes it did, to the Cult.
To everybody else outside of Trump's little sycophant army it looked like the delusional 3am ramblings of a maniac off his meds.
What's interesting, is who told Trump he was being tapped...
I mean let's face it, Trump is a lot of things, but he is not clairvoyant...
So if it is true, someone leaked it...
How do you feel about such a leak of an ongoing investigation?
The point is some people like myself, people like Ron Paul, Glenn Greenwald, and many others have been outraged aboout Fisa court warrants, both in the secrecy of their proceddings and the fact that only .03 are rejected long before Trump came along.
One of the arguments made as to how bad this could be was that it could lead to the party in power using this process agianst their oppinents; and we now see that is the case.
You are merely making the argument that if it is legal, then its ok. I disagree.
We see the leaks were used to politically hurt Trump. Even though there isn't Obama or rice saying "Yes we did this for political purposes" much of the circumstance around it suggests that may be the case.
For example, the fact Hillary's team like podesta had undisclosed paid relationships with Russians and weren't investigated, the fact that rice unmasked americans connected with trump for such a dubious reason as a UAE meeting in the US, the fact that Obama took unprecedented steps to insure as many agencies as possible got access to this classified info, the fact that he told European allies about details of an ongoing investigaation into a political rival.
You say this is all perfectly lefit as long as Obama didn't literally say he was doing this for political purposes.
I think thaat is an afront to our political system that should be condemned in the strongest possible way.
originally posted by: introvert
a reply to: Grambler
No, we do not see that is the case. You have no evidence to suggest it. Why do you continue to do so?
Of course. There are laws in place to take care of any illegal action, including using a position of to go after political rivals.
Are you saying you want to create more laws to cover the same things? I'm not sure what you expect to happen.
Then go after the leaker. Again, what do you expect to happen here?
None of that indicates he instructed the DoJ to go after Trump or anyone connected to him.
Yes, it does seem legit. I need evidence to consider otherwise. You are not providing evidence. You are creating a conspiracy.
originally posted by: dawnstar
the funny thing is that when the patriot act was passed....
it was the right that was saying not to worry, if you aren't doing anything wrong, there's no reason to be concerned, right??
it was all fine and dandy as long as it was directed only at a small group of people who they saw as "enemies".
I have to ask, if it's allright for the general population, then why shouldn't it be alright with those who's desiring to hold the power, like presidential candidates?
Yes we do! Trumps team was targeted. rather or not politics were the intent, it is undisputed that manafort Carter Page, people like Flynn and others were listened in to, wiretapped, and leaked about.
Why do you continue to deny this?
No I am saying it should not be legal,and it can be used for political purposes and may have already been done.
It would be legal for Trump to fire Mueller right now. It would be legal for him to pardon Manafort right now. So you would find that perfectly legitimate, right?
Laws and prcesses should be in place to make it extremely difficult for fisa court warrants to be used to go after political opponents.
We know that his people were instructed to go after Trumps people like manafort. we know that Rice unmasked people like Flynn and then it was leaked.
Claiming Obama was ignorant of this is ridiculous. And even if Obama wasn't aware, all the more reason to change the laws to make sure this can't be done in the future.
Exactly. You find wiretapping political opponents legut unless a person says I am doing this for political reasons. I and most rational people find that to be a horrible idea.