If you aren't on the cryptocurrency train then you're about to get left at the station

originally posted by: NightFlight
When the governments end, the internet crashes, cell phones quit working, no one will have viable currency. Not even gold can be used. The currency then will be bullets, weapons, things to survive with. People need to be self sustaining rugged individualists. Or die...

While I don't disagree with you...

that's later, this is now!

My crypto portfolio has earned me just over a 100% return on investment in the last 60 days.
the earnings are in cryptos, of course, but exchangeable for USD, which can then be exchanged for bullets.
Me, I'm shooting to exchange them for enough land to grow food on- so I'll have something to protect with my bullets.

a reply to: ScepticScot

explain what gives the USD value then.

Remember when trillions of dollars were created out of thin air to bailout the "Too Big To Fails." That is impossible with bit coin.

There is a limited supply of bit coin, just like gold, this is why gold has always had value.

The dollar was backed by gold but the centralized banking system put a stop to that. No it is purely faith based.

Bitcoins value comes from the electricity used for each transaction. Miners get bit coins for processing transaction.

Dollars have no real value backing them.

The US dollar is in a much bigger bubble than bit coin.

Ill bet bit coin is the future of currency and the dollar is completely worthless in 20 years.

a reply to: stormcell

Thanks so much for the explanation.

Question Stormcell. Do you believe in this as an investment? I ask because you are the first person that has given me a viable answer to how it works...I hope that is not getting too personal cause honestly this stuff sounds kind of "spy vs. spy." lol.

a reply to: booyakasha

That makes no sense.

The volume of cash needed in circulation passed the amount of gold in circulation.

Bitcoin is no more than a way to exchange cash.

When you buy crap, the vendor exchanges it for what? Currency.

Yes it is faith based value, but it is not going away while it is the accepted payment.

Bitcoin is no better than paypal at this point.

originally posted by: EternalShadow
Are you daft? Tell what's anonymous about the internet without going dark web??? Even that's hackable.

You are so in love with tech you got blinders on my friend. Be honest with yourself.

It's a little thing called cryptography, there are some coins which have advanced cryptographic protocols that do make it extremely hard or impossible to track the ownership of coins through blockchain analysis. If you're worried about your ISP spying on your use a proxy or VPN. If you look at my thread history you'll see I wrote a thread about Bitcoin in 2011, I'm not exactly new to this. I am also a cryptocurrency programmer, I know what I'm talking about.

originally posted by: badw0lf

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: toysforadults
a reply to: Lab4Us

uhhh anyone who is holding bitcoin right now is getting rich not taken

Which is exactly how bubbles work right up till they burst.

Must be new.

People have been saying bubbles for over 5 years now. When will this bubble burst, do tell?

Personally, in my short stint, I made over $700aud just mining feathercoin in the few months I left my pc on overnight. a mere satoshi of a btc.

but I got out when my gpu died. est quod est.

Now, go back to your "it's a scam" rhetoric.. it's funny.

People make money out if bubbles. It's an inherent feature of how markets work. Doesn't mean it's not a bubble.

I didn't say it was a scam, although it is used in scams and I suspect is vulnerable to a lot of market manipulation.

originally posted by: AlexLettuceFarmer
"Scarcity or difficulty obtaing does not give something value."..........ever heard of gold? a reply to: ScepticScot

There are many things rarer than gold that have less value.

Scarcity by itself does not give something value.

originally posted by: booyakasha
a reply to: ScepticScot

explain what gives the USD value then.

Remember when trillions of dollars were created out of thin air to bailout the "Too Big To Fails." That is impossible with bit coin.

There is a limited supply of bit coin, just like gold, this is why gold has always had value.

The dollar was backed by gold but the centralized banking system put a stop to that. No it is purely faith based.

Bitcoins value comes from the electricity used for each transaction. Miners get bit coins for processing transaction.

Dollars have no real value backing them.

The US dollar is in a much bigger bubble than bit coin.

Ill bet bit coin is the future of currency and the dollar is completely worthless in 20 years.

The dollar gets value by bring a liability to the US government. They are backed by the ability of the US government to demand taxes.

Bitcoin isn't a liability on anyone and has no redemption value. It is entirely based on trust that someone else will accept it.

ETA:
The idea that the value comes from electricity used is beyond stupid.

a reply to: ScepticScot

The fact that conventional currrency is debt backed is entirely the point. It isa liability at the end of the chain that gives it value.

A liability/debt is not value, it's negative value, and the worst possible financial instrument to back a currency with unless for some reason you like an ever growing debt ceiling. If you were arguing for a currency at least backed by something tangible like precious metals then you might've have had some sort of point.

In the case of national currencies the government will always accept its own currency. This drives and maintains value in a way that crypto currencies lack.

I'm not saying we should just replace all fiat currencies, they obviously have a place and I like to see different types of currencies competing. However I wouldn't exactly say fiat currencies maintain value, the government tends to enjoy creating new money and it causes inflation as a result, so the dollar is slowly but surely losing its purchasing power.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: ScepticScot

The fact that conventional currrency is debt backed is entirely the point. It isa liability at the end of the chain that gives it value.

A liability/debt is not value, it's negative value, and the worst possible financial instrument to back a currency with unless for some reason you like an ever growing debt ceiling. If you were arguing for a currency at least backed by something tangible like precious mental then you might've have had some sort of point.

In the case of national currencies the government will always accept its own currency. This drives and maintains value in a way that crypto currencies lack.

I'm not saying we should just replace all fiat currencies, they obviously have a place and I like to see different types of currencies competing. However I wouldn't exactly say fiat currencies maintain value, the government tends to enjoy creating new money and it causes inflation as a result, so the dollar is slowly but surely losing its purchasing power.

I assume that you would consider money in a bank account to have value. The reason it does is its a liability to the bank.

Financial instruments are two sided. If they are an asset to one party they are a liability to another.

Bitcoin has no corresponding liability and no asset value, so it's inherent value is purely as a payment system.

a reply to: ScepticScot

The idea that the value comes from electricity used is beyond stupid.

The value doesn't come from the electricity used, it comes from people deciding what they think the price should be by speculating, and their speculation will be influenced by many factors, one being how much it costs to produce a new Bitcoin, but there is a very large array of things which influence people, including just purely random motivations.

a reply to: ScepticScot

I assume that you would consider money in a bank account to have value. The recent it does is its a liability to the bank.

The reason it does is because people say it does, just like Bitcoin. If all the debt was the be paid off there would not be a dollar left in circulation, that's what I'm saying. Most of the debt owed to entities like the central bank is redundant anyway so it really doesn't matter because it'll never need to be paid off.

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: ScepticScot

The idea that the value comes from electricity used is beyond stupid.

The value doesn't come from the electricity used, it comes from people deciding what they think the price should be by speculating, and their speculation will be influenced by many factors, one being how much it costs to produce a new Bitcoin, but there are very large array of things which influence people, including just purely random motivations.

I agree the value comes from speculation and cost is obviously a factor.

A number of posters however have claimed the electricity used gives it value. That is beyond wrong.

originally posted by: Missmissie173
a reply to: stormcell

Thanks so much for the explanation.

Question Stormcell. Do you believe in this as an investment? I ask because you are the first person that has given me a viable answer to how it works...I hope that is not getting too personal cause honestly this stuff sounds kind of "spy vs. spy." lol.

I'm just learning myself. At the moment, I wouldn't put serious money (= hundreds/thousands of pounds) into bitcoins given the volatility in the way they go up and down and my limited savings. Given that the difficulty rate at which BitCoins can be mined is adjustable, that's got me a bit suspicious. There are a lot of big players (the whales = millionaires/billionaires and investment funds) who see this as just another casino game.

I'd just mine for bitcoins using random hashing and if found any, just keep them. I'd set up my PC to mine other less expensive coins as well. If I could buy a few hundred coins for a hundred pounds, I would.

It's no different from currency markets and international exchange rates. I've had experience of working abroad in Norway while trying to pay off a credit card debt. Then the exchange rate between pounds and KronorCoins would always be going up and down. Always seemed to go down just before I made the money transfer and bounce right back. That led me to start playing stockmarket games where I'd make my transfers in steps, rather than one big jump. Sometimes make a primer transfer of £200, wait a week for the exchange rate to restore, then transfer the real amount. I'd get a feel for what was a good deal and a bad one (8 Kronor/pound = good, 10 Kronar/pound = bad).

originally posted by: ChaoticOrder
a reply to: ScepticScot

I assume that you would consider money in a bank account to have value. The recent it does is its a liability to the bank.

The reason it does is because people say it does, just like Bitcoin. If all the debt was the be paid off there would not be a dollar left in circulation, that's what I'm saying. Most of the debt owed to entities like the central bank is redundant anyway so it really doesn't matter because it'll never need to be paid off.

For day to use people use the dollar because they can pass them on at (roughly) the same value.

What drives that behaviour ( up to the point dollars are used by every major financial institution and held as reserved by most governments) is that the US government will always accept US dollars to pay tax owed. This means that at the end of the chain there is always a demand for dollars.

Tomorrow the sentiment could change from using bitcoin to using any other crypto currency and the value would collapse.

Even if people used a crypto currency for every day to day transaction the dollar would maintain value as long as the government can collect taxes.

Here’s a timely post...

SEC warns investors about cryptocurrency scams
Sylvan Lane - 08/28/17 05:13 PM EDT
The Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) on Monday issued a warning about investing in companies promising to raise capital by selling cryptocurrencies such as Bitcoin and Ethereum.

The agency told investors to be wary of buying stock in companies that tout “initial coin offerings” (ICOs), sales of units of valuable currencies run through electronic ledger systems.

As cryptocurrencies explode in popularity, accessibility, number and value, smaller companies and startups have used ICOs to build capital they’d struggle to win from venture capitalists and investment funds.

But scammers have also turned to promising ICOs as a way to boost stock prices of a company and sell the shares quickly before investors realize the offering was a lie or the company isn’t SEC-authorized.

“While these activities may provide fair and lawful investment opportunities, there may be situations in which companies are publicly announcing ICO or coin/token related events to affect the price of the company’s common stock,” the SEC said. The agency told investors to be wary of ICOs from companies that aren’t obligated to file federal financial disclosures, have recently formed or have little history

The SEC warning reflects the agency’s increasing attention to cryptocurrency trading.

A series of ICO scams and cybersecurity vulnerabilities prompted the SEC to take a closer look at cryptocurrency trading. In a July report, the agency told investors that ICOs could be considered securities trades under federal law, meaning companies would have to register most sales with the SEC.

a reply to: coldkidc

Sounds like another plan to fleece people of their money,quick unthought solution

a reply to: coldkidc

Sounds like another plan to fleece people of their money,quick unthought solution

a reply to: coldkidc

Sounds like another plan to fleece people of their money,quick unthought solution

Hello