Slavery was not the cause of the Civil War - as written by an American in 1863.

a reply to: amazing

Wrong. It was about slavery.

No it wasn't.

Pretty hard to ignore westward expansion, and the EXPORTATION of slaves.

As much as I am a proponent of state's sovereignty/rights and have supported the idea of secession in recent history, it cannot be denied that the leadership of the Confederate States were hypocrites and racists. On one hand they believed they had the right to free themselves of a Union that was repressing them (which is true) but on the other hand they believed they had the right to control a human being and deprive his or her freedom because of their skin color, where they came from, or what they believed.

This is a sad truth and has been a stain on any discussion of state's rights ever since.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: amazing

Wrong. It was about slavery.

No it wasn't.

Pretty hard to ignore westward expansion, and the EXPORTATION of slaves.

And that westward expansion turned into a fight over whether slavery would be allowed in the new territories or not, including thugs perpetuation violence to make sure people voted for slavery. Do some research on that.

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: luthier

Blah

The North were sure winners!

The Great Emancipator was almost the Great Colonizer: Newly released documents show that to a greater degree than historians had previously known, President Lincoln laid the groundwork to ship freed slaves overseas to help prevent racial strife in the U.S.

www.washingtontimes.com...

Blah your conjecture is trumped by the actual financial numbers.

Conjecture eh.

In their fourth debate, at Charleston, Illinois, on September 18, 1858, Lincoln made his position clear. “I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races,” he began, going on to say that he opposed blacks having the right to vote, to serve on juries, to hold office and to intermarry with whites.

The 'Great emancipators own words

How bout the anti fascists/supremacists tearing down the Lincoln memorial?

*crickets.

a reply to: strongfp

There is a difference between the reason for the war from the stand point of those who orcastated the rebellion and the soldiers on the ground..

In every war there are 1000 reasons the soldiers fight..

The Wars start had nothing to do with the North ending slavery..

it was "they are comming to get your guns propaganda.." of the day..

Lincoln won and wanted to stop the newly acquired western states to be free states..

before that the slave states had the confessional majority, but if a hand full of free states joined the union that congressional majority would vanish..

So the southern elite put all their eggs in the presidential election and planned on the democrat candidate making at least half the new states slave states and maintaining the slave state majority..

When Lincoln won they just assumed that meant the new states would be free states and then they would band together and abolish slavery..

However Lincoln had no desire to take on southern slavery..

All the "they are comming to get our slaves" stuff was just a BS scare tactic that would allow a very specific group to take power.

One more thing I would like to add is that when I was in school back in the 60's and 70's we were taught there were multiple reasons for the civil war; there was no singular cause. Of course slavery was important but so were tariffs, state's rights, cultural differences, effects of immigration and westward expansion on the balance of power between the states.

So the first time I ever heard the Civil War was fought primarily over slavery kind of shocked me; it may have been 10 or 15 years ago. This is the reason I do the research that I have to see if what I was taught was wrong or if something had been oversimplified since my time in school. I decided to find the oldest book on the Civil War I could find and was surprised that one was being written as the war was being fought.

originally posted by: neo96
Conjecture eh.

In their fourth debate, at Charleston, Illinois, on September 18, 1858, Lincoln made his position clear. “I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been, in favor of bringing about in any way the social and political equality of the white and black races,” he began, going on to say that he opposed blacks having the right to vote, to serve on juries, to hold office and to intermarry with whites.

The 'Great emancipators own words

Yep conjecture.

He was a master deal maker and honest Abe was actually a joke for this. If your such a history buff you would know he was a master manipulator.

By the way about the fact that the south would go broke and have infrastructure collapse without slaves....

a reply to: neo96

Someone has already spray painted graffiti on the Lincoln memorial.
Baltimore took down 4 Confederate statues overnight.
Things are getting out of hand quickly.

Yes indeed I think you were right. The 0P lightly touched upon it in some of the things that he presented in his quotations. But I think that would be a great research project. It would make an interesting thread. As you seem to be more prolific and better at composing threads that might be a good one for you reply to: JoshuaCox

a reply to: Teikiatsu

Good point... great point really..

Everytime the states rights argument is made it seems to be over the "freedom " to do something crappy..

It doesn't need to be that way, but how many states rights issues haven't gone back to that??

a reply to: TerryMcGuire

BWAHAHAHA

You are underestimating yourself.. I rarely even proof read.. and when I read my mistake later am usually to lazy to fix it!

a reply to: luthier

If your such a history buff you would know he was a master manipulator.

I am a history buff which is why i know there was exactly zero nobility in the civil war.

Because there never is.

war is just an extension of politics that's pursued by other means.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Things are getting out of hand quickly.

What can we expect though.

When it's becoming increasingly clear that we live in an idiocracy.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

The Lincoln memorial says "F the law.."

That could literally be ANYONE..

A kid or anyone else..

The confederate monuments are staues to traitors to the USA on US government property..

The vast majority specifically put up in the push back to the civil rights act...

Only a handful predate 1967..

originally posted by: cavtrooper7
Heres the YANKEE side of it..www.pbs.org...

For PBS that was pretty unbiased and brief.

a reply to: neo96

There is rarely nobility in starting a war... there is usually quite a bit when it comes to the boots on the ground.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

I don't like slavery ,but I won't forget it happened and it will NOT be allowed in the open here,again.

a reply to: SR1TX

Yea , but the actual tangible events that led to the war were perpetrated by the elite slave owners to take power and maintain slavery...

The reasons random people fought were varied..

The simplest way to explain it is that Secession was over power and slavery
The war itself was fought to end Secession and preserve the Union.
Emancipation was an military expedience to tie down manpower and bring Blacks in to the Union army.