Slavery was not the cause of the Civil War - as written by an American in 1863.

a reply to: Irishhaf

Actually the north wouldn't have gone to war over slavery.. it was about succession for them.. basically the whole time..

It was because after they allowed blacks to serve in the army public opinion up north shifted.. now allowing slavery meant some of those black soldiers or there families would be returned to slavery..


For the southerners who had any say so in starting it , it was about protecting slavery and the white mans supermecy..

Which the supremacy part the north was all for..

All slavery every where, in any time is about money..

So I don't know what your point is...

All wars are so one faction or the other can take power and claim resources..


What does how people reguardless their states mean about ANYTHING??

No nation in history has ever allowed voluntary succession...

That isn't even a real life thing..

I don't doubt some of the original signers of the articales of confederation sold it as "we can leave whenever we want.."

But since that has never happened once in history .. by any nation state..they were just selling lies..

a reply to: Irishhaf

What?!?

The north attacked?!?!

Have you never read a civil war book or watched a documentary?!?!

The south fired first MULTIPLE times..


They showed up at all the US government forts..payed for with US tax dollars and stocked with US armament and demanded it all be surrendered.. then when summer didn't..

They started shelling it..

After firing on a civilian river boat bringing food..

a reply to: Irishhaf

The vast Majority of southerners participated in slavery...

The numbers on slave owners are very misleading..


They only count 1 head of household per plantation, even though dozens were actual perpetrators..

For example the handful of overseers doing all the torturing wouldn't have counted..

So her statement is closer to true than false..


The north was only marginally better.

And who gets caught in the middle...again. we the people.

a reply to: MOMof3

I've never heard that before lol.....


Sticks and rocks were just as sharp pre 1870 lol.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Irishhaf

What?!?

The north attacked?!?!

Have you never read a civil war book or watched a documentary?!?!

The south fired first MULTIPLE times..


They showed up at all the US government forts..payed for with US tax dollars and stocked with US armament and demanded it all be surrendered.. then when summer didn't..

They started shelling it..

After firing on a civilian river boat bringing food..

Considering they had just left the union and the north refused to leave the forts, well would you leave a potential hostile force next to your home when you just pissed off the people that built that fort?

But yes they fired the first shot, and the north invaded Virginia.

Of the two I would say an army crossing your border is a touch more excessive than removing an enemy fort from your soil.

originally posted by: JoshuaCox
a reply to: Irishhaf

The vast Majority of southerners participated in slavery...

The numbers on slave owners are very misleading..


They only count 1 head of household per plantation, even though dozens were actual perpetrators..

For example the handful of overseers doing all the torturing wouldn't have counted..

So her statement is closer to true than false..


The north was only marginally better.

Vast majority huh... and do you have a source on that, I would love to read up on a source that claims the vast majority of 22 million people participated in slavery, murdering, raping and killing.

originally posted by: Mikehawk
a reply to: Asktheanimals

So, essentially, you are using this man's OPINION to rewrite history?

From Kruphix's post...

Our new government is founded upon exactly this idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth

You can spin it as hard as you want, your ancestors forced black people to pick cotton and empty their sh#t pots and much worse. My ancestors were bred like dogs in kennels by your ancestors. I am not mad at you for it but I find your ignorance on the matter mind boggling.

I won't deny there were other factors that weighed in on the war, but it was about abolishing slavery, to say otherwise is simply biased denial induced by the lack of ability to recognize your ancestors for what they were...

"But but but they did't know any better, that's just how it was back then"

Will you say the same for current day human traffickers?

Your ancestors were human traffickers and you are denying/defending it via deflection, and doing a very poor job at it I might add.

This thread will be on the front page in no time...LOL...

I'm white and my ancestors didn't come to the states til well after slavery and have been poor for generations since. Are we good or do I need to apologize for something? Not trying to be condescending. Genuinely curious of your stance toward a white person in my situation specifically.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Nice thread. As a Civil War buff this was an interesting read. Is the book in print? It sure would be nice to get a copy.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

It's good to see someone look at the Civil War outside the approved box.
"History is written by the victor."

I have ancestors who fought on both sides.

The usual suspects show up to defend the official story they were indoctrinated with.

Personally, I am inclined to believe Pieczenik's view of the real reasons for the Civil War and his very dark assessment of Abe Lincoln. But that deserves its own thread.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

It's almost like like saying we didn't enter WW2 to save the Jews from concentration camps, although that was the end result. Except that slavery was a major factor among others.

a reply to: luthier

absurd? why is it absurd? it did happen in the 1920`s and 1930`s in the south! and it was happening in 1860 in the northern sweatshops, it may seem absurd to you but it`s documented history.

buying a slave,paying for their lodgings, food, healthcare, clothing,etc wasn`t profitable anymore even in 1860 when they were competing with northern sweatshops that were hiring immagrants fresh off the boats for $2 a week and making them pay for their own lodgings,food, clothing, healthcare,etc

If slavery was so profitable in 1860 then why weren`t the northern sweatshops filled with slaves? slavery was still legal in 1860 even in the north. I`ll tell you why, because the northern sweatshop owners figured out that it was a lot cheaper to hire people to work for poverty wages than it was to buy slaves and pay for ALL their needs.

just as today in 1860 the corporate elite in the north and the south talked to each other so there`s no doubt that the southern corporate elite knew about this new business model of hiring people at poverty wages and making them pay for everything as opposed to buying slaves and paying for their every need.

do you believe that it`s just good fortune for the elite that today so many people work for sub standard wages and have to pay for everything with those wages?
it`s no coincidence it`s a business model that has been perfected for over 150 years since mid 1800`s when the northern sweatshops discovered it, or invented it,or implemented it.it`s proven to be a profit making strategy since day one.
so, why did the southern politicians and corporate elite sucker all the southern poor white trash into dieing in a civil war? well, that`s pretty easy to figure out.

originally posted by: Montsta

originally posted by: Mikehawk
a reply to: Asktheanimals

So, essentially, you are using this man's OPINION to rewrite history?

From Kruphix's post...

Our new government is founded upon exactly this idea; its foundations are laid, its corner-stone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition. This, our new government, is the first, in the history of the world, based upon this great physical, philosophical, and moral truth

You can spin it as hard as you want, your ancestors forced black people to pick cotton and empty their sh#t pots and much worse. My ancestors were bred like dogs in kennels by your ancestors. I am not mad at you for it but I find your ignorance on the matter mind boggling.

I won't deny there were other factors that weighed in on the war, but it was about abolishing slavery, to say otherwise is simply biased denial induced by the lack of ability to recognize your ancestors for what they were...

"But but but they did't know any better, that's just how it was back then"

Will you say the same for current day human traffickers?

Your ancestors were human traffickers and you are denying/defending it via deflection, and doing a very poor job at it I might add.

This thread will be on the front page in no time...LOL...

I'm white and my ancestors didn't come to the states til well after slavery and have been poor for generations since. Are we good or do I need to apologize for something? Not trying to be condescending. Genuinely curious of your stance toward a white person in my situation specifically.

preach it brother!, my ancestors are europian jews who didn`t come to America until the early 1900,s so do I need to apologize for something or pay reparations? because if I do I would like the courtesy of at least being able to own slaves before I have to apologize for it or pay for it.

originally posted by: Nightwalk
a reply to: Asktheanimals

Nice thread. As a Civil War buff this was an interesting read. Is the book in print? It sure would be nice to get a copy.

Yes, it;s also public domain so it might be online somewhere free.

a reply to: TownCryer

Just giving the opinion of a Northerner in 1863 who happened to be a historian.
But maybe he was taught wrong, who knows.
You are making a mountain of assumptions about myself and others and being very insulting in the process.
You can get off your moral high horse, we can all see it's a stick pony.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

It was the cause of the civil war. This and other topics have destroyed ATS. The racists have come out with no shame.

It is embarrassing to even click on the site and see the front page, which this is on. I HOPE the server ATS is on kicks it.

originally posted by: TownCryer
a reply to: Asktheanimals

Slavery WAS the cause of the Civil War, as announced by the Confederacy's Vice-President at the time, as well as many other contemporary sources. Only modern-day Confederate apologist and history revisionists think otherwise, (Oh, and 'poorly educated' excuses for human beings, too - in other words, Trump supporters). The same type of person also denies the Holocaust. Simple minded racists who spend all their time trying to logically justify their insane hatred. So the OP and his like-minded very small circle of friends are certainly free to spread their ignorance amongst themselves. People who can read know the truth.

Trump, his kids, his racist views, are Trash!
Worst. 'presidential' POS. EVER !!

You sure do make your age apparent in this post which I must say is probably thee least insightful, most insulting, embarrassingly immature post. And if im wrong about that then you need to,do some serious reading and thinking before being taken seriously in this discussion and not just to be seen as another cookie cutter person who doesn't come up with his or her own beliefs but just loudly shouts the ones the TV tell him to (or the ones the kids playing hacky sack,or frisbee, or guitar on the grass at the cool universities where you can smoke a joint on campus and call a professor by tea first name)

I find it ironic that some people say that the Democrats and Republicans switched sides after the civil war and it is really the Republicans that were the perpetrators of slavery.

If we look at the state of the African American communities today we see total poverty and despair with very few exceptions. I don't say that with malice and no racism is intended. I am sure there are some that will call me a racist for pointing out the obvious. Even under Obama, African American economic power diminished and even more policies of dependence were put in place.

The policies of the Democrats where welfare is concerned is another form of slavery. You are punished if you are on welfare and you get a job. You are rewarded if you have more children and stay on welfare. Even if its a part time job, you were cut off because that meant you were making progress to becoming independent. Instead of welfare being a helping hand up, it was and still is used as a weapon of bondage, different chains but chains no less. New boss, same as the old boss?

Now, we have those same Democrats encouraging the dismantling anything related to the southern history of this nation. Why try to erase the past? Why eliminate all the proof of the symbols that in part remind us all of what took place? Could it be they are trying to erase the proof of what they did? Republicans have no problem with the symbols staying up and exactly as they are.They know exactly what happened and have no problem with the proof staying in plain sight.

Its the left in this country that are trying to destroy the proof of the past. Is that because one day they can say, "it never happened", where is your proof?

Is this not why Germany keeps the concentration camps as they are? Its so they wont forget what they did. Why is it the left is so determined to erase part of the history of America?

a reply to: Scifi2424

Forget what? The haters of humanity are still here. Always will be.
Resist and protest.
Worst.President.Ever.

a reply to: Asktheanimals

Once upon a time in 1949 in Calhoun City MS, my mom said good morning to a black man on the side walk. An old man she knew her whole life. The next day he was found in the woods hanged by the neck. I'll leave out details.

Everyone knew who did it, and no one turned them in because they were Klan. May God kill me if I lie.

Read books all day, and you will still never grasp this kind of hatred of another human being. They have to know it is no longer acceptable.